Doing it on the cheap, recommendations?

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Hi all!

With the summer approaching I've nabbed myself another MX-5 to take to the track, simple 2000 NB base model. My intention with this car is to take it to the track once, maybe twice per month (work dependant ).

My goal here is to be safe, cheap and have fun. I'm not chasing laptimes, I'm not interested in power gains.

Besides the obvious stuff that I am in the process of acquiring (rollbar + bucket seats), here is some things I'm not sure what to do about.

Suspension

Expensive to replace, it's on stock shocks, springs and bushings the now. I'm not sure I want to touch this, as I would rather spend £600-1000 on consumables over the summer period. I don't trust £300 ebay specials, thoughts?

Wheels and tires

Car is on stock 14 inch alloys, tire choices seem to be limited at this size, I think going to 15s might be better but not sure. I don't want to go semi-slicks, road tires are fine. This car has a whopping 110bhp when it was new, so I think basic but not awful street tires will be more than good enough. Thoughts? Ideally £200-250 for a set, I expect them to last 5-6 track days but maybe that's a bit optimistic

Brake pads

Car weighs nothing, I think whatever I do here will last the season. I've got Mintex pads in the front and rear, and can see me sticking with these. For the sake of discussion, what are the alternatives. Safety item so price here isn't a concern but I expect £120-140 for a set.

Fluids

Car has no leaks, oil came out clean. Is it worth me spending extra for better engine oil/coolant or go just go with Halfords? Brake fluid I don't care about, I've got AP Racing fluid already.

Alignment

Thinking of getting the car aligned for the track but not sure if that's a waste of time on the stock suspension and instead just get a safe alignment for the street. Thoughts?

Sorry long post, but I want to make sure before I start throwing away my cash that it is going in the right direction and I'm getting as many smiles per £££ as I can.

EDIT: Just want to say thanks to everyone for replying so far, this is somewhat new ground for me and I have a lot to learn for car setup/components, so I appreciate the patience

Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Friday 24th May 10:23

[TheLoraxxZeus]

I appear to have missed it a crucial bit of information, I've been on 2 track days with this car already, and half a dozen in my other car.

Main difference here is I'm going for a dedicated car, that's cheap and fun. I'm finding it harder to pick it cheap stuff because I'm just not sure, and there are tons of options.

I know everything will make the car better, is trying to find that sweet spot of bang for buck without it being dog st.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Krikkit said:

Grab some 15" wheels and look for part-worns - I'm currently using Giti GTR2 which were a control tyre for VW beetle cup at some point, there's loads available for peanuts, and being an endurance racing compound they're perfect for track day use. The last set I bought was £27/ea for loose tyres.

Brakes:

• Fresh fluid, I highly recommend ATE Typ200 as a very good balance between cost and performance. Lots of people just skip to Castrol SRF, but it's really overkill for everything short of proper race cars imho.
• Standard pads will be OK if you can keep the temps under control, but something like Mintex M1144 or Ferodo DS2500s will be a very good purchase. We have a set on our ST150 Fiesta and they're currently at 10 days of running and loads of life left.
• Standard discs are also fine, don't fall for drilled or slotted rotors as they offer nothing until you really start hammering them

Excellent info, I was not really interested in semi slicks but those ones you have mentioned are £38 a piece with 4mm tread left. Will those last for a good amount of sessions? Cheaper than road tires but I also don't want too much grip because well, sliding is fun haha.

Already got mintex pads and same experience, superb wear and don't seem to overheat.

Thanks!

[TheLoraxxZeus]

brillomaster said:

id definitely get tyres. you're calling it a dedicated track car but not putting on the single biggest increase for performance, which is a decent set of tyres? in 15" they'll be pretty cheap too.

I know I know, I've never used slicks before and my 2 concers were cost, which I can see now isn't that bad, with part worn, and being too grippy for the cars power. Is that even a thing? I'm new to this, so forgive me for silly questions.

brillomaster said:

Also, depending on where you're planning on doing trackdays, be prepared to get absolutely mullered, a standard power mx5 on road tyres will be rather slow compared to most other track cars. you might be alright at bedford where there arent any race cars and you can get out the way on the straights.

Lucky enough that hasn't been a problem so far, I am attending Knockhill only as it's the only track nearby. Can comfortably say the only time I'm being bothered is by powerful cars on the 2 straights, not had an issue outpacing most of them in the corners. I've been hotlapping Knockhill on iRacing weekly for over a year now if that's worth anything.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Sorry went a bit dark on this one.

I've been working on the car all week (cutting out rot )and not had time to reply.

Dave200 said:

Sort the brakes and tyres at a cost that you're comfortable with, then drive it and fix it. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

That is kinda what I'm doing, there just seems to be a lot of options at my price points. For instance, pads can be had from £50-120 and I'm OK with that price but what pads? Tires are the same, tons of street tires in the low mid tier range, no idea what to choose.

BandOfBrothers said:

Don't actually do trackdays - there are outfits around that do driver training and informal sprints ar airfields at around half the cost of a track day but just as fun in a low (or high) bhp car.

Car limits do them at North Weald, I believe.

There is also a local-ish airfield place near me but the airfield is listed so it's patched quite heavily in areas. It's used for drag, drift and grip events but I can't see me ever going there because there is literally no room if you fk up, you're right into a tire wall.

braddo said:

Given the amount of rain the UK gets, if you get semi slicks you need to have 2 sets of wheels.

I disagree with the harness being needed for the bucket seat. The seat on its own will keep you in place far better than a standard seat and it's not as if you'll be pulling big Gs.

Roll bar and seats, then brakes (pads & fluid) and a good wheel alignment to get as much negative camber as possible. As another said, see how it goes from there. I would stay on road tyres. Sticky tyres will accentuate body roll so you would probably want to go to stiffer springs before sticky tyres.

I am currently running Mintex 1144 front and rear and those are mentioned here already. I am running some AP racing brake fluid, but happy to change over to another brand once this container is used up.

If I am going to stick road tires (my initial intention) then I am going to have to find some brand/model that is affordable, I currently have Uniroyal Rain Sports on and they have done 2 dry days and 1 wet day. I have an open diff so the outside rear tire is getting wrecked, I've got another day booked on the 8th and I think that tire is going to be dead by the end of day.

Also to others, I have had tuition in the past but not much, about 4 hours worth. I would consider myself past a completely stock car. As someone said here, doing nothing is the cheapest option, I know, but it's not like I'm Sunday driving the track so some modest uprated parts is kinda my goal here.

I am also in the process of sourcing a rollbar + seats, there is a possibility that I may get a cage as opposed to a rollbar because wife paranoid, understandably.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

so you want to do it on the cheap, but are buying roll cages and track pads and tyres....?

I have no roll over protection at all, I am happy with a rollbar, wife has done some of her own research which is basically googling "fatal mx5 rollovers" and now the fear has set in.

Also I want to be clear, I want to do it consistently on the cheap. Safety things like roll over protection is a 1 time thing, not something I have to replace every 3rd visit.

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

a standard MX5 will take a lot of abuse, the only thing you need to upgrade is the front brake pads, Use any make that is competition spec, even EBC or HAWK.

Do the Mintex 1144 fall under this category, or are there cheaper alternatives that are just as good? So far these seem to be dealing with the abuse, only had a long pedal once.

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

as for the rest, make sure it's not pissing out fluid from any where, check the lights and levels, put the tyre pressures up to 40 psi all round and then send it.

Doesn't leak thankfully lol. Tire pressures to 40psi? To reduce heat and grip for more fun/longevity?

[TheLoraxxZeus]

braddo said:

A cage means wearing a helmet at all times in the car. Not cheap and not money well spent!

This is true, I do want to say though that I am a 10 minute drive from Knockhill so driving the car there with a helmet on isn't too bad. I will try and calm down my partner about this, she is convinced that the rollbar won't do much to protect me from the windscreen coming down.

braddo said:

I would not touch rainsports except as wet-only tyres. Given how much tyre tech has improved in recent years, personally i would be trying a new design that scores highly in recent tyre tests, say in the dry handling section.

Even if it has ‘eco’ in the name, the latest Conti etc prob has better grip than the ancient michelin ps3 or toyo proxe.

Noted. I think my first step is to source some abused 15 inch wheels because there are very little choices at 14 inches. I'll keep the 14s and keep them for wet tires.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

cheap road tyres generally have soft tyre walls, so hard cornering means you are often rolling onto the tyre wall ( and turning it blue). So more pressure reduces this effect and gives more consistent handling and reduced tyre wear. It gives a bit of a floaty feeling, and will mean that hot pressures will be somewhere around 45-48psi but they'll take it.

I set my Twingo RS up in this way, and was doing 60 min stints at a time with no issues. (i did about 3000 track miles in 18 months) And that was a standard car bar, brake fluid and carbone lorraine cl5 front pads.

you could look at this thread as well
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Oh great info thanks. I am running my Rainsports at the recommended tire pressure (29 I believe) and yeah, they are looking pretty badly scrubbed at the edges, with a lot of melted looking bits of the tread.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Cambs_Stuart said:

A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172....

Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Friday 24th May 14:25

Thanks for sharing your experience .

Good news is partner has settled on just a rollbar, so either the TR Lane one or the GC2. Not sure, depends on stock and delivery time really.

This video here convinced her it was enough

[TheLoraxxZeus]

ian_c_uk said:

As someone with a GCF rollbar on a mk1, that is quite comforting!

How was the installation? Looks pretty straight forward but I've read some posts state that the GC3 X brace can interfere with the soft top roof going down.GC2 doesn't have this issue I guess.

I've just ordered it from Bofi Racing who has no GC2s but had 9 GC3s in stock. So I should get it for the weekend, which leaves me 5 days to get it fit so heres hoping the weather is not awful haha.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

SAS Tom said:

It’s a car that can be used all day, sometimes we even do back to back sessions in it just swapping driver and it takes all the abuse without costing a fortune in expensive parts. Everyone who has driven it has been impressed with how good it is for relatively little money.

I think my OP was worded poorly to be honest. What you have said here is what I am after, you had to pay a price to get it where it is but now you can drive it all day at the track and all you have to worry about are tires and brake components, which aren't that expensive really.

Of course on my side I also want to spend as little as possible on that upfront cost so that money can be put towards more time on track. So majority of the things in your list aren't too high a priority for me.

So I think there is a cheap way to consistently take the car to the track, like someone said a stock car is fine. Last time I was there, 4 MX-5s present with only 1 of them having a rollbar, rest completely stock. However I don't want to die, so I'm willing to put in at least the minimum to make the car safe lol.

Everyone has there own definition of cheap, for me that is roughly around £500 a month, which covers 2 track days with no new parts, or 1 track day with a set of new tires, for example.

Perhaps next year, I will focus on improving the car, I don't know. All I know is, this summer I'm having fun, I don't want another half built pile of st on my drive like the last time.

EDIT: Also I'm not naive, I know you don't ONLY have to worry about tires and pads, but when things are going well that is all you have to deal with.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dave200 said:

It's going to blow your mind when you realise how much your seats can move in even the most benign accident.

I see what you did there.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

SAS Tom said:

I’d recommend the way I’ve done it then. Of course you can drive a standard car but you will find issues whether it’s overheating brakes or burning tyres because it’s got an open diff. Getting to a decent reliable spec means you can do lap after lap without issue and that is the most fun to me. Doesn’t matter how fast your car is if you have to keep coming back in to cool down.

I've already experienced the heat issue, not so much with the power plant but tires + brakes overheating. Brakes I can deal with because you have to slow down, but the tires are easy to ignore because the car has so little power that when the grip drops you don't really care much because well...sliding is fun, especially at speeds that don't punish you heavily if you mess up.

SAS Tom said:

My car got to the point that it is too rusty to go back on the road without spending a fortune. It’s also too good to break for parts as it still works just fine so it just comes out when I want to use it. I haven’t spent money on it other than fuel since 2021 as it doesn’t get used so much.

I think next year I will be looking at the bigger picture, this NB is not long for the road. MOT is due next month and I can poke holes in the outer sills, I can make it past MOT with some filler + paint because the inner sills are not dead. However, in the years to come it's going to need doing, which I can myself but it will never be a "painted" car again.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Is there any tires that can be recommended for wet days that are 14 inch? Price isn't as much of a factor because they are probably going to last bloody ages. I'm going to pick up some 15 inch oem alloys today from someone on Facebook, the ones you get on the sport trim MX-5 NB2. £80, can't complain! These will be for dry days.

I was going to keep my 14 inches for wet tires since I already own the wheels. Or should I just try and find another set of cheap 15s? I also already have the uniroyals on them, but the rear nearside tires is not doing well.

My rollbar should be here next week so excited for that.

Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Thursday 30th May 11:01

[TheLoraxxZeus]

48k said:

If you are considering running semi slick tyres don't underestimate the impact on your suspension and toe links and roll bar due to the increased loads that they weren't designed for.
Having a toe link snap mid corner is puckering, ask me how I know.

Someone above did mention that, is it going to seriously fk the car up? If so, I'll stick to finding part used did l road tires.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Ian-27xza said:

I think there is a trend towards 'upgraditus', which is understandable.

However, my first 'spend' would be to ensure that all the suspension bushings, steering bushings, top mounts and the like are good. The car must be at least 20 years old - how old are these bits, have they been replaced recently? I think you'll find that any 'slop' in the steering / suspension will annoy you when you to accurately place the car around a corner and find yourself fighting against 20 year old bushes...

Bushings have been replaced on suspension arms by previous owner, which had "like new" (not crumbling) bushings in them, top mounts are still in 1 piece (on the front at least, not checked rear), engine mounts are a little tired but it's not shaking the car to death.

When I first got the car I was wanting to put something between oem and polybush hardness but didn't really see the point as it had refreshed oem bushings anyway.

The car spent the first 15 years of it's life garaged, it was only when it moved onto the 2nd owner (who lost license due to DUI) it say outside and never moved for 5 years or so, the person I bought it off was this persons neighbour. They fixed most of the issues (bushings, damaged roof, belt change fluids etc etc) except 2 big ones, completely dead red paint and rusty arches. Car has 43k miles on it.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

May as well post an update on this.

Last track day until September I think, as I need to address issues with the car. Rollbar (GC3) was fit a week prior and was ok to do, bit of a faff due to confined space. Can feel the difference in the chassis though, feels like the rear isn't separating from the car under cornering load which I hadn't noticed until I drove with the bar.

15 inch wheels sourced, so I'll most likely have semi-slicks or part worn road tires on for next time. Suspension needs sorting, badly. I'm unsure if I will get this done by September as I have to weld up new sills first. Seats have been acquired however one is on my sim rig temporarily and it's god awful, back breaking discomfort but perhaps the angle is wrong and will be different in the car.

Thanks for the advice everyone, and picture attached so you can see my poor sidewalls getting hammered.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dave. said:

Christ, that rear tyre looks ready to debead

Good effort..

Ha cheers, it was a good day!

Dave. said:

Ps - a solid mounted (all 6 points, available from jass) will stiffen things up even more.

This sentence unfinished? Not sure what you mean.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

brillomaster said:

Sheesh what tyres and pressures were they at? Definitely need some stiffer sidewall rubber on there... budget track tyres in 15" sizes are pretty cheap, why wouldn't you?

They are 14 inch, Uniroyal rain sports. Pressure was 35 cold.

I've got 15s, just no tires yet. I just ran what I had while I sort things out. Having to deal with Facebook people when buying stuff sucks, that's ages to shift through the garbage.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Small update.

I've made some purchases (I might move this to a "cheap MX-5 trackday car" thread or something) to tackle some of the issues, perhaps destroying my initial approach of as cheap as possible.

Cost breakdown.

Car on road

• Car - £1000
• Insurance - £180
• Tax - £320 (I think)

So to simply put the car on the road, to get it to the track was £500 for the year.

Total: £1500

Year 1

• Half track day - £125
• x2 track nights - £210
• 14 inch Uniroyal Rain Experts (tires that came with it were old) - £240
• Fuel - £150~
• Mintex pads front and rear - £105
• Front caliper rebuild kits - £35
• AP Racing brake fluod - £35

Total: £900

So it's in-line with my idea of cheap, considering my other outgoings throughout the year when I split it out over 12 months. For the fun I had I would say £900 well spent, however I wish I had done things differently and got bigger wheels and different tires which is apparent from the comments in this thread. Fuel is an estimate, because I never kept receipts but I know I filled up twice and ended up with a half tank sitting in the car over the winter.

Year 2 First Half

• Half track day - £125
• x3 track nights - £315
• GC3 Rollbar - £450
• Engine Oil (Millers comp) - £45
• Fuel - £150~

Total: £1085

Wife would not let me have anymore track time until I got a rollbar. She kindly paid for this but I'll include it here for completeness. There was a £15 difference between branded and Halfrods engine oil, I didn't see the point in saving that money on something crucial and insignificant in terms of cost.

Year 2 Second Half (current)

I have the following, waiting to be fit:

• x4 15 inch OEM alloys (used off FB): £50
• x4 part worn gti semi slicks - £150 (£33 each + postage)
• Clutch slave cylinder - £20
• x2 used Corbeau Forza seats - £100
• x2 used 6PT harness, TRS and STR - £50 and £60

I have the following coming this week:

• MeisterR Sport-Z Coilovers - £760
• Poly engine mounts (current ones are sketchy) - £50
• x2 front drop links - £40

Track day booked in September, £125

Total: £1405
Grand Total: £4890

So it's kind of gotten more expensive than I hoped. The coilovers are the killer and that's not even a high end model, it's barely mid-range. The engine mounts were something a mechanic friend suggested after he seen how much movement there was on the old rubber ones. The drop links are very crusty and perished looking, cheap to purchase and will be in that area anyway. I was torn between buying cheaper coilovers and a set of anti-rollbars, but I decided against since too many changes at once will make it harder to understand what the changes are actually doing.

In theory my costs next year should be lower, and focused more on cheap consumables and track days rather than big 1 time purchases.

The good thing is at least the money isn't getting spent on consumables, yeah the coilovers will require servicing but it's the upfront cost that sucks. I did consider used but I don't see the point in saving a couple hundred £££ on something that needs refurbed.

I do however think it may be wise that I spend some money on upgrading the cooling system with a new rad, reroute and oil cooler. As someone said in here, the less time I spend in the pits cooling down the more value I am getting out of the track days. I'm also on the fence about a HANS device as they are ridiculously expensive, perhaps I need to show my wife some injuries in motorsport pre HANS lol.

Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Tuesday 2nd July 12:06