RE: Death Cult
Monday 15th April 2002
Death Cult
Mr Farago seems to have it in for us track day enthusiasts. Care to set him straight?
Discussion
Some good points: however, there also seem to be interesting crashes on the way home from races when the driver was just a SPECTATOR. One can take the 'racing line' or 'fast rally line' on public roads IF one remembers that the track width is your own traffic lane--NEVER use the opposing lane(s) to find the apex unless the way is obviously clear!!!
Some of the drivers I've felt safest with are racing and rally drivers: at least they've learned to drive with BOTH hands.
There's always someone who is willing to go to great lengths to save us from ourselves.
Some of the drivers I've felt safest with are racing and rally drivers: at least they've learned to drive with BOTH hands.
There's always someone who is willing to go to great lengths to save us from ourselves.
Simple truth is that the racing line isn't the fastest (safe) line on the road. It's all about visibility, so using the opposite side of the road to see around a left hander is perfectly acceptable.
Personally I now drive a lot more sedately on the public roads because I get my kicks on track.
Robert, have you ever done a track day?
Personally I now drive a lot more sedately on the public roads because I get my kicks on track.
Robert, have you ever done a track day?
Oh dear, mostly bollocks in my opinion. Sorry Robert - everything up to now has been great, but I can't agree with this one.
True, there are idiots who go on trackdays. They're probably the same idiots that will crash on the public road *anyway*.
Tracking the TVR taught me more respect for the car on the road, not less, as it becomes abundantly clear how quickly it'll let go if you overstep the mark.
True, there are idiots who go on trackdays. They're probably the same idiots that will crash on the public road *anyway*.
Tracking the TVR taught me more respect for the car on the road, not less, as it becomes abundantly clear how quickly it'll let go if you overstep the mark.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Ted and Marshy. Driving on the track gets 'it' out of your system, and makes you realise (hopefully) how easily things can go wrong.
Tracks have, no manholes, T junctions, oncomming traffic, covering of diesel or farm muck etc. etc. and are really, very easy places to drive.
I certainly find that mid winter - away from the track day/sprint season - one or two good indoor karting seesions are needed to keep the on-road driving calm!
Tracks have, no manholes, T junctions, oncomming traffic, covering of diesel or farm muck etc. etc. and are really, very easy places to drive.
I certainly find that mid winter - away from the track day/sprint season - one or two good indoor karting seesions are needed to keep the on-road driving calm!
There is loads of biking stuff about the best line on public roads and it's generally agreed that visibility is the most important thing.
Learing to ride quickly has completely altered the way I drive. My cornering lines are now much more bike like, but I've got to admit that hanging over the center of the road on a left hander is still something I don't feel confortable with.
Learing to ride quickly has completely altered the way I drive. My cornering lines are now much more bike like, but I've got to admit that hanging over the center of the road on a left hander is still something I don't feel confortable with.
quote:
Simple truth is that the racing line isn't the fastest (safe) line on the road. It's all about visibility, so using the opposite side of the road to see around a left hander is perfectly acceptable.
The trouble I have always had with the maximum visibility line (as advocated by the IAM and Roadcraft, the Police driving manual) is if you meet someone coming the other way who is take in the racing line. result: glancing head-on collision. 
I do favour the IAM line rather than the racing line, but not to the extremes. I tend to go more "right of centre" than "far right rumbling on the cat's eyes".
Regards
Jon
I do favour the IAM line rather than the racing line, but not to the extremes. I tend to go more "right of centre" than "far right rumbling on the cat's eyes".
Regards
Jon
As above, Sorry Robert but you've earned your first 
and you can also have a 
I've done a few track days now and it's taught me a very important lesson. The public roads offer no real opportunity to really test the limits of your car, and as a direct consequence I've stopped trying. Flying around Paddock bend and sweeping down the hill or dragging your way up the A23 just to get stuck behind another numpty. Not a difficult choice to make.
Sure B roads offer fun, but you can't use "The line" (with which I think you have developed an unnatural obsession) 'cos you meet things coming in the other direction. Besides, there are always walking glue pots, or tractors etc... even if you do stick to your side of the road. you get the idea.
So, I would argue the very counter of your article. In fact, in the face of so much anti-motorist angst spouting forth from the government and green lobbies at the moment I would suggest your article is entirely misplaced and you have become a victim of their ridiculous propaganda that motorists who drive powerful cars are completely incapable of controlling themselves and hence the country needs 2M speed cameras, GPS speed monitoring and the reduction of all cars to 45 BHP just in case.
I'm also saddened that your article misses the point of (in my amateur estimation at least) why 75% of drivers attend track days. It's not an anaorak pursuit of the line, it's enjoyment. A straightforward (but abstract) concept. The one thing on all drivers' faces during a track day is a grin. Not because they've managed a perfect lap, but because they've driven FAST. Side effects can be talking to other drivers, seeing other cars in action, grabbing a lift in another car.
No, I think your article was badly researched and ill informed. Either that, or my opinion is miles from your own. It's the second article I've fundamentally disagreed with you on so far. As I can only remember reading 2, your hit rate isn't very good.
and you can also have a I've done a few track days now and it's taught me a very important lesson. The public roads offer no real opportunity to really test the limits of your car, and as a direct consequence I've stopped trying. Flying around Paddock bend and sweeping down the hill or dragging your way up the A23 just to get stuck behind another numpty. Not a difficult choice to make.
Sure B roads offer fun, but you can't use "The line" (with which I think you have developed an unnatural obsession) 'cos you meet things coming in the other direction. Besides, there are always walking glue pots, or tractors etc... even if you do stick to your side of the road. you get the idea.
So, I would argue the very counter of your article. In fact, in the face of so much anti-motorist angst spouting forth from the government and green lobbies at the moment I would suggest your article is entirely misplaced and you have become a victim of their ridiculous propaganda that motorists who drive powerful cars are completely incapable of controlling themselves and hence the country needs 2M speed cameras, GPS speed monitoring and the reduction of all cars to 45 BHP just in case.
I'm also saddened that your article misses the point of (in my amateur estimation at least) why 75% of drivers attend track days. It's not an anaorak pursuit of the line, it's enjoyment. A straightforward (but abstract) concept. The one thing on all drivers' faces during a track day is a grin. Not because they've managed a perfect lap, but because they've driven FAST. Side effects can be talking to other drivers, seeing other cars in action, grabbing a lift in another car.
No, I think your article was badly researched and ill informed. Either that, or my opinion is miles from your own. It's the second article I've fundamentally disagreed with you on so far. As I can only remember reading 2, your hit rate isn't very good.
Oh dear.. IMO, Mr Farago you have located the fine line between tongue-in-cheek and foot-in-mouth..
I don't think you're gonna find much suport for your postulations on this occasion.
Massive generalisations all round really.. you can condemn any group of enthusiasts on the basis of the idiots among their number - for idiots are abundant and not exclusive to track-day patronage.
I agree with others here - AP, Marshy, Ted et al..
For me, the object of tracking your car is not to then continue exploring the limits once back on the public roads, but to dissipate that urge in a more suitable environment, allowing for a more tempered attitude on the roads - consider, if you like, shooting at a gun club as a means of obviating the urge to blow people away on the high-street. It's about catharsis. People need to let off steam.
However, I make it a policy to keep an open mind about thing that are absolute crap
, so if you can justify your assumed entitlement to tar us all with the same brush and then talk absolute sh!te about us, then I'll re-evaluate my opinion. 
>> Edited by CarZee on Monday 29th April 15:15
I don't think you're gonna find much suport for your postulations on this occasion.
Massive generalisations all round really.. you can condemn any group of enthusiasts on the basis of the idiots among their number - for idiots are abundant and not exclusive to track-day patronage.
I agree with others here - AP, Marshy, Ted et al..
For me, the object of tracking your car is not to then continue exploring the limits once back on the public roads, but to dissipate that urge in a more suitable environment, allowing for a more tempered attitude on the roads - consider, if you like, shooting at a gun club as a means of obviating the urge to blow people away on the high-street. It's about catharsis. People need to let off steam.
However, I make it a policy to keep an open mind about thing that are absolute crap
, so if you can justify your assumed entitlement to tar us all with the same brush and then talk absolute sh!te about us, then I'll re-evaluate my opinion. >> Edited by CarZee on Monday 29th April 15:15
quote:Sorry to play devil's advocate (I agree with you), but wasn't that German lad who went on the rampage a member of a gun club?
For me, the object of tracking your car is not to then continue exploring the limits once back on the public roads, but to dissipate that urge in a more suitable environment, allowing for a more tempered attitude on the roads - consider, if you like, shooting at a gun club as a means of obviating the urge to blow people away on the high-street. It's about catharsis. People need to let off steam.
Having been to a number of track days and also go-karting events, I do tend to agree with the general comments. The feeling of adrenaline pumping through my otherwise sedate veins can be dangerous.
However I have also witnessed parade of cars leaving these events at very slow pace and also the lazy coppers sitting a way down the road ready to pick up a few easy bookings so they can keep the "sarge" happy.
Maybe circuits should introduce "chill out rooms" like clubs. Maybe a few circuits in a Robin Reliant would sort us all out.....
However I have also witnessed parade of cars leaving these events at very slow pace and also the lazy coppers sitting a way down the road ready to pick up a few easy bookings so they can keep the "sarge" happy.
Maybe circuits should introduce "chill out rooms" like clubs. Maybe a few circuits in a Robin Reliant would sort us all out.....
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