Why aren't more trackday bods giving Racing a go?
Discussion
Is it just me, but what is the point of trackdays?
You must hink you are quick or at leat like driving fast - so why not at least some switch to racing rather than just shagging out a perfectly road road car.
They seem expensive next to race entry fees - and you arn't racing - surely the whole point - to pit your skills against others in similar cars and see if you REALLY are any good?
You must hink you are quick or at leat like driving fast - so why not at least some switch to racing rather than just shagging out a perfectly road road car.
They seem expensive next to race entry fees - and you arn't racing - surely the whole point - to pit your skills against others in similar cars and see if you REALLY are any good?
Having come in drunk, I'll take the bait here.
Last year, I did five track days in the S2000 (all crammed in towards the end of the year). I had an absolute blast, and all in, they cost, on average £350 each.
This year, I'm racing. Let's just say it's costing significantly more (£2000 per weekend)! I expect to enjoy evey second, and rave about the experience for ever, but at the end of the day, it is not the same.
To race, you have to buy a race car, you have to be prepared to crash it, and you have to trailer it to the event. If you're into rubbing wheels with fellow competitors (which I am), then fine, but last year I could drive the track car to work!
When we buy a fast road car, we just get frustrated (sticking to the NSL is never easy). Track days give us the opportunity to drive our road cars as they were intended to be driven.
I have every respect for the track day bod who doesn't want to race. Track days offer significant adrenaline for minimal risk. It allows the bods to raise a family, set up a business, or take that holiday, whilst also getting his or her fix.
There is no one out there that can afford to race. This is the no compromise apporach, and has fantastic rewards.
Both have their place, but track day attendees are not wimps, they just have responsibilities or personal goals that don't involve competitive motorsport.
Bet they're having a blast though
.
Rich
Last year, I did five track days in the S2000 (all crammed in towards the end of the year). I had an absolute blast, and all in, they cost, on average £350 each.
This year, I'm racing. Let's just say it's costing significantly more (£2000 per weekend)! I expect to enjoy evey second, and rave about the experience for ever, but at the end of the day, it is not the same.
To race, you have to buy a race car, you have to be prepared to crash it, and you have to trailer it to the event. If you're into rubbing wheels with fellow competitors (which I am), then fine, but last year I could drive the track car to work!
When we buy a fast road car, we just get frustrated (sticking to the NSL is never easy). Track days give us the opportunity to drive our road cars as they were intended to be driven.
I have every respect for the track day bod who doesn't want to race. Track days offer significant adrenaline for minimal risk. It allows the bods to raise a family, set up a business, or take that holiday, whilst also getting his or her fix.
There is no one out there that can afford to race. This is the no compromise apporach, and has fantastic rewards.
Both have their place, but track day attendees are not wimps, they just have responsibilities or personal goals that don't involve competitive motorsport.
Bet they're having a blast though
. Rich
littlered said:
Is it just me, but what is the point
Have you actually done any track days or racing? It gets very expensive very quickly. I reckon the last couple of dozen track days in the V8S have averaged about £500 a time, and racing can be much, much more expensive. Sprinting is as far as my budget will stretch.
littlered said:
Is it just me, but what is the point of trackdays?
They seem expensive next to race entry fees - and you arn't racing - surely the whole point - to pit your skills against others in similar cars and see if you REALLY are any good?
No. I know that I'm not Michael Schumacher, and if I had any illusions I could be any good, I should have started at karting at least thirty years ago.
I'm more the type that enjoys cars like others do fine wine, I guess. I'm sensitive to the differences that lift a finely honed road tool from the myriad of devices that merely take you from A to B, and I take pride in doing my own development work to adapt my car to my personal vision of the former. I don't pretend however, that any of this will make me faster than the next guy.
I simply enjoy the thrill of driving, and if track days help me to continue my enjoyment of experiencing man and machine acting as one (when you get it right) without being an outlaw or endangering others, so much the better.
I only started going to track days recently, and I'm addicted! Now I find driving fast on the road is boring in comparison, so I tend to use my fast car less and less often. I do like racing (or the thought of racing as I haven't really done any other than racing with friends on karts!!) but the cost and time committment is just too inhibiting. However, I think I've found a compromise! I will track my car a few times a yr to get the fix, and in between I'll start racing karts. The 100cc TKM are pretty fast and can corner 3-4 g , which is not far off F1 cars!! And they don't cost a bomb unless you want to compete seriously. I'll probably be running/racing at the end of the pack 2 laps down! But I get to race, and I get to drive my car fast on the track! Perfect world...
I've done lots of trackdays over the past two or three years. Almost getting bored with it now. There is one big aspect over racing though & that's time on track v cost. How many hours do they normally race or sprint for? mins normally, trackdays you get the whole day to hone your own skills.
I can see where your coming from ie wanting to progress, but safety & cost are the two main issues.
There is also something missing from the racing circles & that's ease of which to have a go. The only events I would consider would be one make, low cost fixed mods series & these are few & far between, they always develop into higher cost series.
For me I'm now getting in Drifting & slalom events, much more skill is required than just driving fast. It's hugely entertaining, low cost, its not competitive from a speed point of view & its very safe. I've got the bug so bad I'm even starting a club, down here in the south.
I can see where your coming from ie wanting to progress, but safety & cost are the two main issues.
There is also something missing from the racing circles & that's ease of which to have a go. The only events I would consider would be one make, low cost fixed mods series & these are few & far between, they always develop into higher cost series.
For me I'm now getting in Drifting & slalom events, much more skill is required than just driving fast. It's hugely entertaining, low cost, its not competitive from a speed point of view & its very safe. I've got the bug so bad I'm even starting a club, down here in the south.
I did trackdays for about three years (in my Nissan Primera 
), then did two years racing with the Caterham Graduates, and have now gone back to trackdays.
Why? Bank balance in the main, but also amount of tracktime. If you test before every race (as I did), I got enough time on track over a weekend while I was racing, but the overall cost was significantly higher, and there was always the chance of big accident (which unfortunately I had
, with a £6k repair bill). Cost of a trackday - £170 say, for about 2.5 hours on track. Cost of a race - £155 for 15 minutes qualifying and a 20 minute race. Having said that, there's nothing quite like racing, and I'll probably go back to it at some point.
Having gone back to trackdays, it's also nice to be able to take friends out in the car at race speeds, them having watched me race in the past. I've now bought a more extreme car than the Caterham (a Fisher Fury Fireblade), which should stop me getting bored for another couple of years
.
), then did two years racing with the Caterham Graduates, and have now gone back to trackdays. Why? Bank balance in the main, but also amount of tracktime. If you test before every race (as I did), I got enough time on track over a weekend while I was racing, but the overall cost was significantly higher, and there was always the chance of big accident (which unfortunately I had
, with a £6k repair bill). Cost of a trackday - £170 say, for about 2.5 hours on track. Cost of a race - £155 for 15 minutes qualifying and a 20 minute race. Having said that, there's nothing quite like racing, and I'll probably go back to it at some point. Having gone back to trackdays, it's also nice to be able to take friends out in the car at race speeds, them having watched me race in the past. I've now bought a more extreme car than the Caterham (a Fisher Fury Fireblade), which should stop me getting bored for another couple of years
.
I must admit, I considered both ways of getting on the track. Having gone to a test day at silverstone and seen all the caterams and westfields turn up (on trailers) this changed my thinking to doing test days instead.
Why ? Well, on test days, you can time your runs and see what you are really like at driving. Work out where you are loosing time, ask others what you can do to improve. Produce a stop watch at a track day and its goodbye.
The down side is getting a cat B licence, although not difficult, it costs. £45 for the pack, £110 for a medical, about £150 for the ARDS day, so all in about £300 but all you need to do is be checked each year that your not going round the bend! and you have it for life.
You then run with a yellow board with a black cross on (idiot board) to indicate that you are new to it! so they give you some leeway.
This means that like me you can buy an F3 car and frighten yourself to death, or just drive round at your own pace (like I probably will) But, you do have a F3 car in your garage every night and its awsome!
You can then visit Mallory Park for about £80 every wednesday from 09-00- 12-00 What fun!
Gadgit.
Why ? Well, on test days, you can time your runs and see what you are really like at driving. Work out where you are loosing time, ask others what you can do to improve. Produce a stop watch at a track day and its goodbye.
The down side is getting a cat B licence, although not difficult, it costs. £45 for the pack, £110 for a medical, about £150 for the ARDS day, so all in about £300 but all you need to do is be checked each year that your not going round the bend! and you have it for life.
You then run with a yellow board with a black cross on (idiot board) to indicate that you are new to it! so they give you some leeway.
This means that like me you can buy an F3 car and frighten yourself to death, or just drive round at your own pace (like I probably will) But, you do have a F3 car in your garage every night and its awsome!
You can then visit Mallory Park for about £80 every wednesday from 09-00- 12-00 What fun!
Gadgit.
Surely the point is,that like this forum trackdays offer some form of social coming together of like minded people....a chance for friends to get together and do what they enjoy....I enjoy trackdays along with a group of friends...from the moment we book up....the drive to the track...the day itself...to the barstool racing later...its fun!
We all have different cars...different abilitys....different budgets and probably different expectations...but they're fun and thats the point.
We all have different cars...different abilitys....different budgets and probably different expectations...but they're fun and thats the point.
Well said Trampas, all these things are based on what we are all prepared to spend, and what we enjoy, as I said I'm not going to be Montoya, and I suppose I prefer the type of person who has spent time and effort to get the car to the track. It appears that the more time you spend working on it, the more careful you will be on the track, that'll mean me going round about 35 mph !!!!!
As an ex TVR S2 man spending two years on the car I sold it and it did not cost that much more to buy the F3 car.
By the way Ted, I'n considering useing your old S2 chequered flag style across the back of the car as I though it looked great on yours. did you sell it in the end or not ?
gadgit.
As an ex TVR S2 man spending two years on the car I sold it and it did not cost that much more to buy the F3 car.
By the way Ted, I'n considering useing your old S2 chequered flag style across the back of the car as I though it looked great on yours. did you sell it in the end or not ?
gadgit.
Surely the one thing that everyone on this site has in common is we love cars...in particular our own cars,
anything that can increase the enjoyment of the same must be a good thing?
And rather than "shagging out a perfectly good road car"...i see it as just get my moneys worth....the majority of us own cars that far outperform the roads we get to drive them on day to day.....i would view that as a bigger waste....owning a performance car and not everynow and again using it for what it was designed for.
anything that can increase the enjoyment of the same must be a good thing?
And rather than "shagging out a perfectly good road car"...i see it as just get my moneys worth....the majority of us own cars that far outperform the roads we get to drive them on day to day.....i would view that as a bigger waste....owning a performance car and not everynow and again using it for what it was designed for.
I think you're wrong about costs. A typical club race entry fee will be about the same as a comparable trackday. One gets 30 minutes of competitive lapiing, one gets about 100 minutes of non-competitive lapping.
A pretty fundamental reason why trackdayers don't race is because no-one has asked them. Many of us will say that we:
- don't have the money (but have we checked the costs?)
- don't have the competitive edge/skill
- don't have a garage, mechanical skills, etc.
- don't want to risk our car - we are happy within our own limits, but don't trust the other rockapes out there.
but there is a series and discipline out there to suit everyone. In five years of trackdaying, testing, and crewing at races and sprints, I've only been asked once why I don't race.
When EasyTrack set up their Lydden challenge, they got nearly a hundred race virgins interested.
If you ask, and if you mentor them in to the right position for their ambitions, they will come, and they will be hooked. Good, active recruitment is far more effective that just sitting and waiting for the phone to ring.
Anyway, I better not say too much, as I'm presenting something very much along these lines later this week...
A pretty fundamental reason why trackdayers don't race is because no-one has asked them. Many of us will say that we:
- don't have the money (but have we checked the costs?)
- don't have the competitive edge/skill
- don't have a garage, mechanical skills, etc.
- don't want to risk our car - we are happy within our own limits, but don't trust the other rockapes out there.
but there is a series and discipline out there to suit everyone. In five years of trackdaying, testing, and crewing at races and sprints, I've only been asked once why I don't race.
When EasyTrack set up their Lydden challenge, they got nearly a hundred race virgins interested.
If you ask, and if you mentor them in to the right position for their ambitions, they will come, and they will be hooked. Good, active recruitment is far more effective that just sitting and waiting for the phone to ring.
Anyway, I better not say too much, as I'm presenting something very much along these lines later this week...
Are you serious? .. have you investigated running a race car .. in the tasmin challenge you're lucky to run a car for less than 10k a season, that's not including track action related incidents which are MUCH more likely than track days ..
Racing IS an expensive hobby .. if you wanted to race something glamorous then the costs spiral out of 99% of people's pockets .. sponsorship for lower classes is hard to come by and only a few hundred pounds at a time ..
you do the maths :
race car, spare engine, exisitng engine rebuil, spare gearbox, rebuilt race gearbox, rebuilt dif, changes to car from last season, checking and updating after every test session, trailer, fuel costs,tyres,mechanics costs, B+B costs, repairs, entry fees, beer (!) .. they just don't compare on costs at all!!
Racing IS an expensive hobby .. if you wanted to race something glamorous then the costs spiral out of 99% of people's pockets .. sponsorship for lower classes is hard to come by and only a few hundred pounds at a time ..
you do the maths :
race car, spare engine, exisitng engine rebuil, spare gearbox, rebuilt race gearbox, rebuilt dif, changes to car from last season, checking and updating after every test session, trailer, fuel costs,tyres,mechanics costs, B+B costs, repairs, entry fees, beer (!) .. they just don't compare on costs at all!!
Well Joospeed, you seem to be scaring everyone off getting into racing proper. You dont have to enter races to enjoy running a race car, remember, you can't even look at a stop watch on a track day without being shown the door. Get a licence and do test days !!
You can get a formula ford 1600 race car in great nick for a reasonable price (£4000- £5000)this would come with a good package of spares. Most of the engines are ordinary ford 1600 and run for years with no problems.
This is a current add on Fast Road and Track racing sales site and is a great little car!
www.fastroadandtrack.co.uk/classad/index.html
1982 Reynard Formula Ford 1600. This car has had very little use, never crashed. Is in excellent original condition throughout. Two races since recent rebuild with fresh Bold engine and gearbox overhaul. Competitive and ready to race in Formula Ford series. Comes with front and rear wings, and slicks (on rims) for use in Monoposto series. Spares include: wishbones, rockers, brand new nosecone and ratios. Viewings welcome £4600..... yes..£4600.
This add is but a few on the site and shows that if you have a bit of knowledge with mechanics then you can have a ball ! go into this site and look through the single seaters for sale and see what you can get !
yes you will need a trailer, and most people on the site sell the traler with the car if you were to offer a bit more. Granted, its not cheap but if you have the time, and are prepared to put in the effort the rewards are being on the track with a nice race car, have a look and see for yourselves.
gadgit.
You can get a formula ford 1600 race car in great nick for a reasonable price (£4000- £5000)this would come with a good package of spares. Most of the engines are ordinary ford 1600 and run for years with no problems.
This is a current add on Fast Road and Track racing sales site and is a great little car!
www.fastroadandtrack.co.uk/classad/index.html
1982 Reynard Formula Ford 1600. This car has had very little use, never crashed. Is in excellent original condition throughout. Two races since recent rebuild with fresh Bold engine and gearbox overhaul. Competitive and ready to race in Formula Ford series. Comes with front and rear wings, and slicks (on rims) for use in Monoposto series. Spares include: wishbones, rockers, brand new nosecone and ratios. Viewings welcome £4600..... yes..£4600.
This add is but a few on the site and shows that if you have a bit of knowledge with mechanics then you can have a ball ! go into this site and look through the single seaters for sale and see what you can get !
yes you will need a trailer, and most people on the site sell the traler with the car if you were to offer a bit more. Granted, its not cheap but if you have the time, and are prepared to put in the effort the rewards are being on the track with a nice race car, have a look and see for yourselves.
gadgit.
I started racing at the back end of 2002 before I'd done any track days at all. HUGE amount of fun and not really as expensive as you might think. I race with the Caterham Graduates and mechanical support is provided and because the cars are identical the racing is REALLY close.
I enjoy track days to a point but test days are better in that the time on the lap timer is what really counts and then the races are where you really try and put it all together.
I do think that track days are good fun but to be honest would probably end up getting bored if that was the end game.
MikeW
I enjoy track days to a point but test days are better in that the time on the lap timer is what really counts and then the races are where you really try and put it all together.
I do think that track days are good fun but to be honest would probably end up getting bored if that was the end game.
MikeW
The more previous Trackday dude that end up racing is better for all, more competition, all the track, = more income to them mean less likley hood of entry fees rising etc - racing is really where its at - yest more than trackdays - but not as much as you would imagine if you do alot of them per year...
Joospeed,
Not every series is that expensive. A 750 Stock Hatch can be yours for £2,5 to £5k, ready to race.
There are plenty of series that can be done for perhaps £2k per year (including £1k of entry fees - that's the sort of budget we live with). Engine & gearbox rebuilds are every 3-5 years, yer' brother as mechanic, drive up on the day for most circuits, etc. In our historic series, I've seen just two accidents in three years (only one included an impact, the other a wheel broke loose and the car slid acrosss the grass).
There's also the whole area of sprints, which are generally safe, and a great way of sampling the sport at very low risk.
Not every series is that expensive. A 750 Stock Hatch can be yours for £2,5 to £5k, ready to race.
There are plenty of series that can be done for perhaps £2k per year (including £1k of entry fees - that's the sort of budget we live with). Engine & gearbox rebuilds are every 3-5 years, yer' brother as mechanic, drive up on the day for most circuits, etc. In our historic series, I've seen just two accidents in three years (only one included an impact, the other a wheel broke loose and the car slid acrosss the grass).
There's also the whole area of sprints, which are generally safe, and a great way of sampling the sport at very low risk.
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