Discussion
But its not racing - just a few timed runs and if you catch another car you have to start again.
I was discussing this the other day with a fellow racer who used to sprint - in terms of competitive miles/time in car per pound it is one of the most expensive forms of motorsport ever.
Oh - and its also the only motorsport I can think of where you can make a complete balls up of one of a competitive session and it makes no difference to the final result whatsoever.
I was discussing this the other day with a fellow racer who used to sprint - in terms of competitive miles/time in car per pound it is one of the most expensive forms of motorsport ever.
Oh - and its also the only motorsport I can think of where you can make a complete balls up of one of a competitive session and it makes no difference to the final result whatsoever.
Depends on what level. In the south, the championships have classes for standard production where no mods what so ever are allowed and you don't have to fit a roll cage. We have had champions that have won in cars that cost a couple of hundred quid.
Cost to start is that of a Nat B licence, helmet and overalls. It is addictive and the action is intense. None of this "I'll have a couple of laps to get the tyres warm and feel my way in" that the racing wusses seem to rely on
just out you go and see how quickly you can go. Pick an airfield circuit and there is nothing to hit if you get it wrong.
Quite a few then go on to full blooded racing or move into the other classes where mods are allowed and that is when it gets expensive.
There is quite a bit of sprint stuff on my website:
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
Cost to start is that of a Nat B licence, helmet and overalls. It is addictive and the action is intense. None of this "I'll have a couple of laps to get the tyres warm and feel my way in" that the racing wusses seem to rely on
just out you go and see how quickly you can go. Pick an airfield circuit and there is nothing to hit if you get it wrong. Quite a few then go on to full blooded racing or move into the other classes where mods are allowed and that is when it gets expensive.
There is quite a bit of sprint stuff on my website:
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
Thanks.
I was think of doing it in my Noble with a view to then going into racing at some point and was think this may be a way in to the realms so to speak. You say a Nat B licence - what does this cost and how do you go about obtaining it?
I already Have a race approved helmet / and shoes just need a fire suit.
Guy
I was think of doing it in my Noble with a view to then going into racing at some point and was think this may be a way in to the realms so to speak. You say a Nat B licence - what does this cost and how do you go about obtaining it?
I already Have a race approved helmet / and shoes just need a fire suit.
Guy
Had a read of your website - most helpful Just wondering which car club I can join in order to get the Licence.
Thanks again
Thanks again
guysh said:
Thanks.
I was think of doing it in my Noble with a view to then going into racing at some point and was think this may be a way in to the realms so to speak. You say a Nat B licence - what does this cost and how do you go about obtaining it?
I already Have a race approved helmet / and shoes just need a fire suit.
Guy
Your best bet is to decide which regional championship you want to compete in, and join one of the clubs involved in running the championship events. Alternatively, join any MSA recognised local or national car club - TVRCC for example.
Lots of details at www.ukmotorsport.com
Lots of details at www.ukmotorsport.com
For licences try www.ukmotorsport.com/racmsa/starting/licenses.html Costs about £30.
As for club, obviously TVRCC is the best but I'm also a member of BARC which are very active in the Championships in the south and also organise the CCC Sprint Championship.
As for club, obviously TVRCC is the best but I'm also a member of BARC which are very active in the Championships in the south and also organise the CCC Sprint Championship.
Having done both ( but more racing than sprints) it's hard to compare the two. With racing there is a lot to think about for 15 to 40 mins and you need to make split second decisions for passing/ defending etc constantly.But you can also get away with some mistakes ( sometimes)Absolutely fantastic fun but can get expensive- not so much the basic costs but accidents, mechanical failures etc.
Sprinting requires intense concentration for a very short period of time and all or most of the thinking is done before you leave the start line. Hugely rewarding when you get it right. Although the basic price per mile of track time is much higher for sprinting the overall outlay is a lot less and chances of damage are drastically reduced.
There is very little you would need to do to your car to get sprinting. Easiest way is join a local club, get your B license, gear and you are away.
Personally I think it's a lot harder to go from sprinting to racing than vice versa simply because of the lack of track time you get sprinting.
Sprinting requires intense concentration for a very short period of time and all or most of the thinking is done before you leave the start line. Hugely rewarding when you get it right. Although the basic price per mile of track time is much higher for sprinting the overall outlay is a lot less and chances of damage are drastically reduced.
There is very little you would need to do to your car to get sprinting. Easiest way is join a local club, get your B license, gear and you are away.
Personally I think it's a lot harder to go from sprinting to racing than vice versa simply because of the lack of track time you get sprinting.
Thank Steve, good info on your website. It seems that if I were to enter the standard production class, I could replace my dampers with adjustable ones. Does that include being able to raise / lower the height as well as the stiffness ? Would I be allowed to adjust the toe and camber etc from standard ?
Cheers,
Andy.
Cheers,
Andy.
The ACSMC regs say;
"Wheels up to 1" wider are permitted, but they must be of the original diameter. Replacement damper units are permitted, provided they are of the same method of operation and have the same location points as standard."
Assuming the top mounts are deemed to be a part of the damper unit, I would read this as meaning I could run a car in this class with full Koni race suspension, 5 degrees negative camber on the front with the car lowered, fully set up and and corner weighted. Once you've done that and fitted the wider rims with appropriate list 1A tyres all round, you'll have a car that will be way quicker than a proper 'standard' car to the point where with a competent driver in each the 'standard' car wouldn't have a chance.
>> Edited by spnracing on Friday 4th July 10:45
"Wheels up to 1" wider are permitted, but they must be of the original diameter. Replacement damper units are permitted, provided they are of the same method of operation and have the same location points as standard."
Assuming the top mounts are deemed to be a part of the damper unit, I would read this as meaning I could run a car in this class with full Koni race suspension, 5 degrees negative camber on the front with the car lowered, fully set up and and corner weighted. Once you've done that and fitted the wider rims with appropriate list 1A tyres all round, you'll have a car that will be way quicker than a proper 'standard' car to the point where with a competent driver in each the 'standard' car wouldn't have a chance.
>> Edited by spnracing on Friday 4th July 10:45
i will be sprinting the 205 at castle combe tomorrow.
if you can, come over and have a look the car is road going production class, it should be in standard production but the after market exhaust makes it ineligible. i hope to get an orginal exhaust on there in time for the next event.
have a look at the CCC speed championship regs on the www.barc.net web page. they should give you a good idea of what mods are permitted. for the record here are the two most popular class' and their regs. most championships run alomost identical regs hence cars can compete in a number of championships.
Standard Production Sports and Saloon Cars -
no modifications are permitted unless stated below:
Wheels up to 1" wider are permitted but must be of original diameter.
Replacement shock absorbers are permitted provided that they are of the same method of operation and have the same location points as standard.
Coil and leaf springs must remain as standard.
The front seats only and the steering wheel may be changed.
Apart from these items no partof the car may be modified in any way, no additional parts may be fitted and nothing discarded.
Road-Going Production Sports and Saloon Cars & Road-Going Kit Cars and Replica Cars :-
Cars may be modified subject to the following :
The main chassis structure, the suspension configuration and the number of seats to remain as standard.
No internal trim may be removed (except carpets), the back seat(s) must be complete and of the original type.
The front seats may be replaced but both must be capable of carrying a normal adult in a reasonably safe and comfortable manner.
All glass and its raising and lowering mechanism must remain as originally fitted (except windscreen, which maybe replaced with one of laminated glass if not fitted as standard).
Aero Screens are not allowed.
The bonnet and boot lid material can be changed but the silhouette above the centre line between the wheels must remain as standard.
The original type of cylinder block, cylinder head, gearbox casing and differential casing are to be retained and in their original positions.
in terms of track time and value for money, sprinting isnt cheap, castle combe will cost me £72 entry fees for two practice runs and two timed runs.
however, its fun, no one will crash in front of me or crash into the back of me, i can drive the car to the event and home again, its fun, the car/engine doesnt need rebuilding etc after the event, its fun......you get the picture. sprinting also has retained the true feel of clubman motorsport which i find very enjoyable.
as i said, if you can make it, come to combe tomorrow, i'm car number 77 (with the PH sticker obviously!)
if you can, come over and have a look the car is road going production class, it should be in standard production but the after market exhaust makes it ineligible. i hope to get an orginal exhaust on there in time for the next event.
have a look at the CCC speed championship regs on the www.barc.net web page. they should give you a good idea of what mods are permitted. for the record here are the two most popular class' and their regs. most championships run alomost identical regs hence cars can compete in a number of championships.
Standard Production Sports and Saloon Cars -
no modifications are permitted unless stated below:
Wheels up to 1" wider are permitted but must be of original diameter.
Replacement shock absorbers are permitted provided that they are of the same method of operation and have the same location points as standard.
Coil and leaf springs must remain as standard.
The front seats only and the steering wheel may be changed.
Apart from these items no partof the car may be modified in any way, no additional parts may be fitted and nothing discarded.
Road-Going Production Sports and Saloon Cars & Road-Going Kit Cars and Replica Cars :-
Cars may be modified subject to the following :
The main chassis structure, the suspension configuration and the number of seats to remain as standard.
No internal trim may be removed (except carpets), the back seat(s) must be complete and of the original type.
The front seats may be replaced but both must be capable of carrying a normal adult in a reasonably safe and comfortable manner.
All glass and its raising and lowering mechanism must remain as originally fitted (except windscreen, which maybe replaced with one of laminated glass if not fitted as standard).
Aero Screens are not allowed.
The bonnet and boot lid material can be changed but the silhouette above the centre line between the wheels must remain as standard.
The original type of cylinder block, cylinder head, gearbox casing and differential casing are to be retained and in their original positions.
in terms of track time and value for money, sprinting isnt cheap, castle combe will cost me £72 entry fees for two practice runs and two timed runs.
however, its fun, no one will crash in front of me or crash into the back of me, i can drive the car to the event and home again, its fun, the car/engine doesnt need rebuilding etc after the event, its fun......you get the picture. sprinting also has retained the true feel of clubman motorsport which i find very enjoyable.
as i said, if you can make it, come to combe tomorrow, i'm car number 77 (with the PH sticker obviously!)
spnracing said:
Assuming the top mounts are deemed to be a part of the damper unit, I would read this as meaning I could run a car in this class with full Koni race suspension, 5 degrees negative camber on the front with the car lowered, fully set up and and corner weighted. Once you've done that and fitted the wider rims with appropriate list 1A tyres all round, you'll have a car that will be way quicker than a proper 'standard' car to the point where with a competent driver in each the 'standard' car wouldn't have a chance.
>> Edited by spnracing on Friday 4th July 10:45
No you couldn't. The top mounts are classed as suspension mounts and you can't change them. You can't change the springs and by lowering etc these would need to be changed which you can't do. The car may look great but unless the springs are changed the end result is tyres fouling the bodywork and an inability to control body roll.
Yes there is some adjustment but not much. The driver is probably the best area for any improvements!!
only started sprinting a couple of weeks back with a few other lotus owners.. doing 2nd sprint this sat at lydden hill.. it's the next step on from track days and is a great buzz.. we've set up our own race series from next year but sprinting gives a good insight - and as has been said - maybe not best £'s per mile on track but costs next to nothing to get going and it's down to you how safe u want to be..
this is what one of our members wrote for those of us who were interested - lots more on the m/sport forum on www.seloc.org - but this saves u joining...
sorry it's so long..
Guide to Sprinting
I have been asked to do a bit of a write up on going sprinting so here it is. Hope it makes sense but please feel free to ask any questions
Cheers
Ian
This is a simple guide to going sprinting. It is not meant to be a comprehensive guide but hopefully gives enough information and direction to help SELOC members take their first steps.
Sprinting and Hillclimbing is racing against the clock. You are on the course by yourself, or at least separated from other competitors by at least 0.5Km. You are not allowed to overtake so if you do catch up with the previous competitor for whatever reason you have to slow down or stop and you get the run again.
There are typically three types of venue
Airfields, e.g. North Weald
Circuits, e.g. Lydden, Goodwood
Hillclimbs, e.g. Gurston
Broadly speaking Airfields have more run off than circuits and circuits are often provided with more run off than Hillclimbs, not always the case but as a general guide a good start point
You can go sprinting on a national speed B licence obtained from the msa. Go to www.msauk.org for all the details and to download an application form. You don’t need to do any test or have a medical, providing you are in good health,
You can compete in just about any car from a standard Elise to a sports racer like a radical or a purpose built race car. There are classes for everyone at most events. You don’t need any modifications like extinguishers or cut our switches if you are using a road legal car but you should consider personal safety and think about items such as harnesses. If you compete in road going classes you may be required to show MOT, insurance and road tax but each series has different regulations and you will need to read the regs carefully.
You will need to fit a timing strut, which is simply a piece of material; aluminium is ideal, attached to the front of your vehicle that cuts the timing beam. Section L10.12.1 of the blue book has precise details.
On the personal safety front you will need a Type A/FR helmet or equivalent, see Blue Book Q 10.3.1.The first time you use your helmet you will need to obtain a sticker from the scrutineers that confirms the helmet is approved. This costs £1.
You will also need a set of FIA approved overalls, either Proban or Nomex. Proban is cheaper but does not last as well as Nomex because it gets its fireproof ability by being treated with chemicals that wash out over a period of time. Although not mandated you should also consider flameproof underwear, socks, balaclava and gloves. Flameproof boots are a good idea too and you may want to consider a collar, which will reduce whiplash injuries in the event of an accident.
If your car is not road legal, and remember slicks are not road legal, you may need a log book. These can be obtained from the scrutineers at a cost of [£16]. You will need to have the vehicle inspected by the scrutineers and the log book written up describing the vehicle. Any subsequent modifications must be entered into the log book and they will be checked by the scrutineers. All the details are in L 9.1.7
You can get insurance for your car and that is a matter of personal choice. Competition Car Insurance www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/ are worth talking to.
You need to read the regulations carefully to make sure you enter the right class. The trickiest area is often tyres. Many competitions insist that road going cars use List 1a tyres (section R 3.1.1 of the blue book). If you are on A038s or similar you may find yourself classified as a race car so read those regs carefully.
So what happens on the day?
You will turn up at the track as advised, usually about 8:00 am ish.
The first job is to sign on. You will need your licence and club membership cards and, if required, vehicle documents. Remember to leave your licence if you want it signed.
You will have to sign indemnities etc, just like a track day.
You then need to prepare your car for scrutineering, remember to fix your competitor number to the side of your vehicle and the timing strut to the front, remove all the stuff from the boot and cockpit, check for leaks and make sure everything looks good. In some competitions the scrutineers will come to you and others you go to them. If you are not sure ask one of the other competitors because you will not be allowed on track without a scrutineers sticker and its up to you to get one.
At scrutineering the car will be checked for safety and eligibility. This is where you will get problems if you try and enter road going classes with slicks for example or if your car is not in A1 condition. They will also check your helmet and overalls so make sure that are on show and in good condition.
When you pass you will get a sticker that you put where the marshals at the start line can see it – no sticker – no run.
Many meetings have a drivers briefing, which you must attend.
You must find time to walk the course. Many organising clubs insist that you walk the course if you haven’t been there before or there have been changes. Spend as much time as you can doing this. You are only going to get two or three goes at it in practice so you have to get as much of the course imprinted on your mind as possible. Try and get to know someone who has been before and knows the lines and brake points and walk the course with them.
So you have passed scrutineering, been to the briefing, walked the course, the car is warmed up and practice is starting. You will be called up in class batches usually and when its your turn you come to the start line. The start line marshals will line you up and if necessary hold you in position. The start line marshals will point out the start light, which will be red. When the track is clear the light goes green and you go in your own time – this isn’t Santa Pod, as soon as you see green you start in your own time – timing starts when your strut breaks the beam not when the lights go green.
And then it’s down to you. Drive as fast as you can to the finish, which will be marked with a chequered board or a flag. Quicker than you believed possible, its all over. You will probably be banging the steering wheel in frustration because you made loads of mistakes, your heart rate should be about 180 bpm or you haven’t been trying. You will not believe how difficult it is to get the perfect run and when you look at the times you will see that fractions of seconds count and the tiniest mistake costs fractions of seconds. It is the pursuit of the perfect run that is the challenge of sprinting and what makes it so addictive.
The marshals will direct you back to the paddock where you will swap experiences with the others in your class and then go and see what your time was.
Before you know it will be time for second practice then the first timed runs that count. You usually get 2 runs, sometimes 3 and the fastest counts.
It is good manners to stay till the end and be at the prize giving at the end. And don’t forget to acknowledge the marshals and officials who have just made your day possible.
And that’s it, you are now a sprinter.
this is what one of our members wrote for those of us who were interested - lots more on the m/sport forum on www.seloc.org - but this saves u joining...
sorry it's so long..
Guide to Sprinting
I have been asked to do a bit of a write up on going sprinting so here it is. Hope it makes sense but please feel free to ask any questions
Cheers
Ian
This is a simple guide to going sprinting. It is not meant to be a comprehensive guide but hopefully gives enough information and direction to help SELOC members take their first steps.
Sprinting and Hillclimbing is racing against the clock. You are on the course by yourself, or at least separated from other competitors by at least 0.5Km. You are not allowed to overtake so if you do catch up with the previous competitor for whatever reason you have to slow down or stop and you get the run again.
There are typically three types of venue
Airfields, e.g. North Weald
Circuits, e.g. Lydden, Goodwood
Hillclimbs, e.g. Gurston
Broadly speaking Airfields have more run off than circuits and circuits are often provided with more run off than Hillclimbs, not always the case but as a general guide a good start point
You can go sprinting on a national speed B licence obtained from the msa. Go to www.msauk.org for all the details and to download an application form. You don’t need to do any test or have a medical, providing you are in good health,
You can compete in just about any car from a standard Elise to a sports racer like a radical or a purpose built race car. There are classes for everyone at most events. You don’t need any modifications like extinguishers or cut our switches if you are using a road legal car but you should consider personal safety and think about items such as harnesses. If you compete in road going classes you may be required to show MOT, insurance and road tax but each series has different regulations and you will need to read the regs carefully.
You will need to fit a timing strut, which is simply a piece of material; aluminium is ideal, attached to the front of your vehicle that cuts the timing beam. Section L10.12.1 of the blue book has precise details.
On the personal safety front you will need a Type A/FR helmet or equivalent, see Blue Book Q 10.3.1.The first time you use your helmet you will need to obtain a sticker from the scrutineers that confirms the helmet is approved. This costs £1.
You will also need a set of FIA approved overalls, either Proban or Nomex. Proban is cheaper but does not last as well as Nomex because it gets its fireproof ability by being treated with chemicals that wash out over a period of time. Although not mandated you should also consider flameproof underwear, socks, balaclava and gloves. Flameproof boots are a good idea too and you may want to consider a collar, which will reduce whiplash injuries in the event of an accident.
If your car is not road legal, and remember slicks are not road legal, you may need a log book. These can be obtained from the scrutineers at a cost of [£16]. You will need to have the vehicle inspected by the scrutineers and the log book written up describing the vehicle. Any subsequent modifications must be entered into the log book and they will be checked by the scrutineers. All the details are in L 9.1.7
You can get insurance for your car and that is a matter of personal choice. Competition Car Insurance www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/ are worth talking to.
You need to read the regulations carefully to make sure you enter the right class. The trickiest area is often tyres. Many competitions insist that road going cars use List 1a tyres (section R 3.1.1 of the blue book). If you are on A038s or similar you may find yourself classified as a race car so read those regs carefully.
So what happens on the day?
You will turn up at the track as advised, usually about 8:00 am ish.
The first job is to sign on. You will need your licence and club membership cards and, if required, vehicle documents. Remember to leave your licence if you want it signed.
You will have to sign indemnities etc, just like a track day.
You then need to prepare your car for scrutineering, remember to fix your competitor number to the side of your vehicle and the timing strut to the front, remove all the stuff from the boot and cockpit, check for leaks and make sure everything looks good. In some competitions the scrutineers will come to you and others you go to them. If you are not sure ask one of the other competitors because you will not be allowed on track without a scrutineers sticker and its up to you to get one.
At scrutineering the car will be checked for safety and eligibility. This is where you will get problems if you try and enter road going classes with slicks for example or if your car is not in A1 condition. They will also check your helmet and overalls so make sure that are on show and in good condition.
When you pass you will get a sticker that you put where the marshals at the start line can see it – no sticker – no run.
Many meetings have a drivers briefing, which you must attend.
You must find time to walk the course. Many organising clubs insist that you walk the course if you haven’t been there before or there have been changes. Spend as much time as you can doing this. You are only going to get two or three goes at it in practice so you have to get as much of the course imprinted on your mind as possible. Try and get to know someone who has been before and knows the lines and brake points and walk the course with them.
So you have passed scrutineering, been to the briefing, walked the course, the car is warmed up and practice is starting. You will be called up in class batches usually and when its your turn you come to the start line. The start line marshals will line you up and if necessary hold you in position. The start line marshals will point out the start light, which will be red. When the track is clear the light goes green and you go in your own time – this isn’t Santa Pod, as soon as you see green you start in your own time – timing starts when your strut breaks the beam not when the lights go green.
And then it’s down to you. Drive as fast as you can to the finish, which will be marked with a chequered board or a flag. Quicker than you believed possible, its all over. You will probably be banging the steering wheel in frustration because you made loads of mistakes, your heart rate should be about 180 bpm or you haven’t been trying. You will not believe how difficult it is to get the perfect run and when you look at the times you will see that fractions of seconds count and the tiniest mistake costs fractions of seconds. It is the pursuit of the perfect run that is the challenge of sprinting and what makes it so addictive.
The marshals will direct you back to the paddock where you will swap experiences with the others in your class and then go and see what your time was.
Before you know it will be time for second practice then the first timed runs that count. You usually get 2 runs, sometimes 3 and the fastest counts.
It is good manners to stay till the end and be at the prize giving at the end. And don’t forget to acknowledge the marshals and officials who have just made your day possible.
And that’s it, you are now a sprinter.
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