Going from a Griffith to a Caterham on track...
Discussion
Hi,
I drive a TVR Griffith 500 and after having taken it onto the track at Bruntingthorpe, I pretty much know the handling characteristics of the car.
I've just booked myself onto the slalom day in a Caterham at Brooklands so I'm just curious as to what to expect?
I've always admired the Caterhams and might end up buying one for track days in a few years but being a bit of a novice would greatly appreciate any comments from anyone with any experience of them. Also any tips on how to best drive them round a slalom course as I''ve bet a mate a couple of pints that I can get a bteter time than him as he's doing it as well!!
Cheers - Chris
I drive a TVR Griffith 500 and after having taken it onto the track at Bruntingthorpe, I pretty much know the handling characteristics of the car.
I've just booked myself onto the slalom day in a Caterham at Brooklands so I'm just curious as to what to expect?
I've always admired the Caterhams and might end up buying one for track days in a few years but being a bit of a novice would greatly appreciate any comments from anyone with any experience of them. Also any tips on how to best drive them round a slalom course as I''ve bet a mate a couple of pints that I can get a bteter time than him as he's doing it as well!!
Cheers - Chris
In a word - handling. 
It'll pretty much go where you point it and provide huge amounts of feedback. Probably the closest thing you'll get to driving a single seater without actually being in a single seater.
You will find the acceleration a similar feel to the Griffith, but be able to brake much later.
You'll have great fun, and I can pretty much guarantee you'll want one for track days....
Jeremy
(with a TVR and a Caterham)
It'll pretty much go where you point it and provide huge amounts of feedback. Probably the closest thing you'll get to driving a single seater without actually being in a single seater. You will find the acceleration a similar feel to the Griffith, but be able to brake much later.
You'll have great fun, and I can pretty much guarantee you'll want one for track days....
Jeremy
(with a TVR and a Caterham)
Danny's right. Since I bought the caterham I just don't want to use the Cerbera on track. By comparison to the cat it feels like a balloon full of water. Still makes a great noise and probably out accelerates it but there is nothing like the sense of "connection" - in the cerbera I am aware that the back has gone after its gone, in the cat it sends you a telegram to say its going before it happens.
The cerbera is a fabulous road car, but, on track, you can't beat a track car.
The cerbera is a fabulous road car, but, on track, you can't beat a track car.
My 2p worth.
Had a Griff until very recently. Great fun on the track and lots of leery oversteer exiting corners. Accelerator to be treated with respect. Tricky under braking if not heel and toeing.
Done 4 races in a Caterham Roadsport A (138bhp). The Caterham is like a kart - you have to maintain momentum as the engine isn't powerful enough to compensate for mistakes. Having said that, the engine is more than powerful enough to overcome the tyres. It teaches you a huge amount about handling a car -e.g. you can play lifting off mid corner and still catch it. Worst moment - spinning at Copse at Silverstone and watching the two guys behind me head straight for the side of the car. You don't want to be T boned in a Caterham!! (They missed me!).
I've now bought a Tuscan Challenge car to race. Says it all really....
Had a Griff until very recently. Great fun on the track and lots of leery oversteer exiting corners. Accelerator to be treated with respect. Tricky under braking if not heel and toeing.
Done 4 races in a Caterham Roadsport A (138bhp). The Caterham is like a kart - you have to maintain momentum as the engine isn't powerful enough to compensate for mistakes. Having said that, the engine is more than powerful enough to overcome the tyres. It teaches you a huge amount about handling a car -e.g. you can play lifting off mid corner and still catch it. Worst moment - spinning at Copse at Silverstone and watching the two guys behind me head straight for the side of the car. You don't want to be T boned in a Caterham!! (They missed me!).
I've now bought a Tuscan Challenge car to race. Says it all really....
I'm sure for a track day the cat will be outstanding.
For those of you struggling with TVR handling at the limit call Don Palmer at Driving Development. He runs coaching sessions at Bruntingthorpe and you can't beat them for great fun travelling sideways in a TVR. With his help you will find that even a Cerbera ( I have a speed six ) will tell you the back end is going sometime before it does. With this knowledge you can drive them very fast around corners and have the grunt to out drag cats on the straights.
For those of you struggling with TVR handling at the limit call Don Palmer at Driving Development. He runs coaching sessions at Bruntingthorpe and you can't beat them for great fun travelling sideways in a TVR. With his help you will find that even a Cerbera ( I have a speed six ) will tell you the back end is going sometime before it does. With this knowledge you can drive them very fast around corners and have the grunt to out drag cats on the straights.
I agree entirely with the above. My old Chimaera was great in a straight line but I couldn't understand why it kept being caught in the corners by Caterfields -- until I drove one at Folembray.
What a car! Making the TVR feel like a balloon full of water is a spot-on descrption.
>> Edited by manek on Tuesday 17th June 11:50
What a car! Making the TVR feel like a balloon full of water is a spot-on descrption.
>> Edited by manek on Tuesday 17th June 11:50
I'm another ex-TVR (a Griff and 2 Tuscans) driver who moved to the dark side last year. I agree with all the comments below (with the exception of the Cerby being able to out perform a Cat on anything but a runway).
My Caterham handles superbly and is very predictable and great fun. I bought it 2 days after doing a slalom trackday in April 2002 (that's how impressed I was). However I would say that the cars Caterham supply for the Slalom day did have a rather unusual setup. I think they deliberately set them up with lots of front end grip but little (relatively speaking) rear end. This leads to some very entertaining moments around the cones.
I'm booked onto the PH Cat day on the 9th August for a good hoon around rather than taking it too seriously.
See you there.
cheers,
Mike
). My Caterham handles superbly and is very predictable and great fun. I bought it 2 days after doing a slalom trackday in April 2002 (that's how impressed I was). However I would say that the cars Caterham supply for the Slalom day did have a rather unusual setup. I think they deliberately set them up with lots of front end grip but little (relatively speaking) rear end. This leads to some very entertaining moments around the cones.
I'm booked onto the PH Cat day on the 9th August for a good hoon around rather than taking it too seriously.
See you there.
cheers,
Mike
Well.. the proof of the pudding etc.
TVRCC Trackday at Combe this Friday, I will be there in my caterham and there will be lots of Tuscans, Cerberas, Griffs and Chims outdragging me up the pit straight.. or may be not?
I can't believe no other PHers are going. Where are you all? Danny, Andrew, Paul V, Gazzab, Dom etc
TVRCC Trackday at Combe this Friday, I will be there in my caterham and there will be lots of Tuscans, Cerberas, Griffs and Chims outdragging me up the pit straight.. or may be not?
I can't believe no other PHers are going. Where are you all? Danny, Andrew, Paul V, Gazzab, Dom etc
100dB at 4500rpm static at 0.5m should get most stuff through? My decatted cerb just makes it - although it then hits 102db at 3/4 revs.
Maybe someone should invent one of those bypass gizmos that Ferrari use in the 360 that keeps the noise to 98dB at 4500 and then opens up at 4600rpm?
Maybe someone should invent one of those bypass gizmos that Ferrari use in the 360 that keeps the noise to 98dB at 4500 and then opens up at 4600rpm?
beej said:It would be the Caterham I take which currently is somewhere north of 100dB static.
100dB at 4500rpm static at 0.5m should get most stuff through? My decatted cerb just makes it - although it then hits 102db at 3/4 revs.
At Folembray the Noise Nazi reckoned he was seeing 102dB drive-by. 
Mind you, I don't believe him. I'm working on a solution that should be ready soon....
beej said:
Well.. the proof of the pudding etc.
TVRCC Trackday at Combe this Friday, I will be there in my caterham and there will be lots of Tuscans, Cerberas, Griffs and Chims outdragging me up the pit straight.. or may be not?
I can't believe no other PHers are going. Where are you all? Danny, Andrew, Paul V, Gazzab, Dom etc
I'm sure you know this anyway, but CC is a very fast open track and puts a premium on power over handling. Having said that I would have thought an SLR would give a Cerb a run for it's money.
Oh yeah, and I'd also treat CC with a lot of respect, high speed corners and little run off and all that.
Jeremy - I guess you're getting an after market repackable silencer? Something like the RaceCo should do the trick. I went for a powerspeed repackable system and the beginning of the year and am very please with it.
cheers.
Re Don Palmer day - sure, you can improve your car control skills a lot this way - especially loved the wet circuit. IMHO a Cerbera is far easier to drive sideways then the Chimaera, one reason I upgraded several years ago!
However, the Caterham is still in a different league around the corners.
Of course, the Radical is in yet another league of it's own :-)
danny
However, the Caterham is still in a different league around the corners.
Of course, the Radical is in yet another league of it's own :-)
danny
It seems the key point is whether you have the luxury of a special track day car. I'm an old guy with 2 kids and a wife and BMW X5 to support so I wanted a sports car I could use daily and ferry the children about in at weekends.
TVRs do go fast around corners but your driving skills need to be developed. I've no doubt that such developed skills in a cat would go even faster though
TVRs do go fast around corners but your driving skills need to be developed. I've no doubt that such developed skills in a cat would go even faster though
It seems the key point is whether you have the luxury of a special track day car. I'm an old guy with 2 kids and a wife and BMW X5 to support so I wanted a sports car I could use daily and ferry the children about in at weekends.
TVRs do go fast around corners but your driving skills need to be developed. I've no doubt that such developed skills in a cat would go even faster though
TVRs do go fast around corners but your driving skills need to be developed. I've no doubt that such developed skills in a cat would go even faster though
This is virtually the exact same debate ChopperEllis and I have been having .. I think we should take a road car (e.g. a Cerbera) and race-prepare it (brakes/suspension/etc) for track-days, and he thinks the best bet may well be to go for a purpose-designed track day tool, e.g. Caterham/Radical.
My point is this: it's a helluva lot of fun tweaking your road car to get the best out of it, but if you're already in a damn good car, where's the fun? Actually, lots of people say these lightweight cars are the ultimate track day car, but is speed really the key to having fun on a trackday? Surely it'd be excellent fun to hoon around in a Transit!!? But you certainly wouldn't be very quick!
What's the consensus here - flawed road car which you can tweak, or purpose-built lightweight which is already fantastic. Which is more fun? And why?
My point is this: it's a helluva lot of fun tweaking your road car to get the best out of it, but if you're already in a damn good car, where's the fun? Actually, lots of people say these lightweight cars are the ultimate track day car, but is speed really the key to having fun on a trackday? Surely it'd be excellent fun to hoon around in a Transit!!? But you certainly wouldn't be very quick!
What's the consensus here - flawed road car which you can tweak, or purpose-built lightweight which is already fantastic. Which is more fun? And why?
futie said:In my view it depends what you're in to: if you enjoy tweaking and developing the car then go that route; if you're into track day driving then buy a specialist car that you can develop your driving in.
What's the consensus here - flawed road car which you can tweak, or purpose-built lightweight which is already fantastic. Which is more fun? And why?
Don't forget that Caterhams can be used on road as well if necessary.
futie - forget the tweaking route, your friend is right!
My Cerbera had Nitron suspension, much stiffer springs, adjustable front anti roll bar (these are the best - and cheapest - modifications), serious brakes (see here), which you will need after the suspension unless you want to slow down after only a few laps (!), and a 50bhp Red Rose engine upgrade (fun, more tyre smoke, but least value for money!). This, along with a bunch of instruction adds up to quite a lot of money, but only the instruction stays with you! In the end, it's the weight that's the fundamental problem, and the huge wear & tear this causes.
A Superlight Caterham would murder it on a short circuit, and Superlight R at most places, assuming same driver. This is definitely the fun, stress free, and cost effective way to go, unless you feel like going over the top with a Radical, which is utterly ridiculously insanely fast - but arguably less fun due to the aerodynamics.
danny
My Cerbera had Nitron suspension, much stiffer springs, adjustable front anti roll bar (these are the best - and cheapest - modifications), serious brakes (see here), which you will need after the suspension unless you want to slow down after only a few laps (!), and a 50bhp Red Rose engine upgrade (fun, more tyre smoke, but least value for money!). This, along with a bunch of instruction adds up to quite a lot of money, but only the instruction stays with you! In the end, it's the weight that's the fundamental problem, and the huge wear & tear this causes.
A Superlight Caterham would murder it on a short circuit, and Superlight R at most places, assuming same driver. This is definitely the fun, stress free, and cost effective way to go, unless you feel like going over the top with a Radical, which is utterly ridiculously insanely fast - but arguably less fun due to the aerodynamics.
danny
Danny, thanks for the reply - actually I had thought of your shernanigans with the Cerb. when mulling this over - I know you 'adjusted' it to quite a large degree before giving up!
But .. having done only a handful of trackdays I still fail to see the attraction of having the *fastest* car there - surely the fun is in driving at 10 tenths and extracting the fastest possible lap, no matter what your chariot?
But .. having done only a handful of trackdays I still fail to see the attraction of having the *fastest* car there - surely the fun is in driving at 10 tenths and extracting the fastest possible lap, no matter what your chariot?
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff