How best to drive the Carousel on the Ring ?
Discussion
Next month I'm going to the Ring, can't wait! (27th-29th July, I've been told it will be one of the busiest weekends of the year)
I've been trying to familiarise myself with the track by playing it on GTR2 (pc racing game). It doesn't matter how many laps I do, it's next to impossible to learn.
Anyway there are two banked corners towards the end of the circuit. A larger one (know as the Carousel?) and a smaller one later on.
In the game, if you hit these just right you can take the corners at very high speed. If you get it wrong they'll throw you off the track. Is it like this for real?
Is it safe to take these banked sections at speed as a newbie? or am I better to go wide and miss the sections out?
If it makes any difference I'm going round in a low powered RWD sports car (Smart Roadster)
Thanks.
I've been trying to familiarise myself with the track by playing it on GTR2 (pc racing game). It doesn't matter how many laps I do, it's next to impossible to learn.
Anyway there are two banked corners towards the end of the circuit. A larger one (know as the Carousel?) and a smaller one later on.
In the game, if you hit these just right you can take the corners at very high speed. If you get it wrong they'll throw you off the track. Is it like this for real?
Is it safe to take these banked sections at speed as a newbie? or am I better to go wide and miss the sections out?
If it makes any difference I'm going round in a low powered RWD sports car (Smart Roadster)
Thanks.
I’ve done the Ring in a Smart Roadster before (albeit tweaked) – great fun. You shouldn’t really have to lift off too much going into the karrusel as it is banked which means you are able to carry more speed. Try to go in at about the 3rd concrete panel and then power out…
You will probably be better though if you have faster cars behind you to stay up top until you have lapped a few times as they will be right up your @rse and get a bit miffed when you put your foot down and nothing happens
But then I am a girlie so what do I know – but it worked for me
You will have a great time
You will probably be better though if you have faster cars behind you to stay up top until you have lapped a few times as they will be right up your @rse and get a bit miffed when you put your foot down and nothing happens
But then I am a girlie so what do I know – but it worked for me
You will have a great time
My entry speed for the Karussel is probably half or less of my speed up the hill to it - therefore unless you are in a particularly slow car then you should be braking before you drop down into it. Once in it should be fairly obvious what speed you can carry around it.
Mini Karussel can be very deceptive in that it doesn't look much but it can spit you out of it early if you take it too fast. Just start off braking reasonably hard before it and driving through and see how it feels. If it's ok then up the speed a bit next time.
Mini Karussel can be very deceptive in that it doesn't look much but it can spit you out of it early if you take it too fast. Just start off braking reasonably hard before it and driving through and see how it feels. If it's ok then up the speed a bit next time.
Don't rely on any computer game to teach you the 'Ring - it's not the same in real life and you will crash if you immediately try to go as fast as you did in the game. You can get a headstart learning which way the track goes from games, but you don't drive a real car with your thumbs. Drive at least two laps at gentle pace, as if you were on a B-road that you don't know, and make sure you do know what's coming up next. Even when you are confident with the layout, leave a large margin beyond that - video games rarely have crashed/broken down cars on the exits of blind corners 
As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
handpaper said:
Don't rely on any computer game to teach you the 'Ring - it's not the same in real life and you will crash if you immediately try to go as fast as you did in the game. You can get a headstart learning which way the track goes from games, but you don't drive a real car with your thumbs. Drive at least two laps at gentle pace, as if you were on a B-road that you don't know, and make sure you do know what's coming up next. Even when you are confident with the layout, leave a large margin beyond that - video games rarely have crashed/broken down cars on the exits of blind corners
As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
Good advise!!As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
the general technique for this corner with a fast car is to brake heavily just before you turn in.... but turn in about 5m after the actual start of the banking itself. So in effect you drop into the corner from above.
By doing this you load up all the tyres and you are then immediately on the power gradually accelerating around the bend.
On the exit, you want to try and leave the inside wheel in the banking and the outside wheels on the level. Otherwise if you come out of the bank too early your car will jump off it like a ramp.
There is a professional test driver's guide to do the full circuit... I printed it off at home and it works well for my high powered RWD machine. Just can not remember where abouts on the www it is.
By doing this you load up all the tyres and you are then immediately on the power gradually accelerating around the bend.
On the exit, you want to try and leave the inside wheel in the banking and the outside wheels on the level. Otherwise if you come out of the bank too early your car will jump off it like a ramp.
There is a professional test driver's guide to do the full circuit... I printed it off at home and it works well for my high powered RWD machine. Just can not remember where abouts on the www it is.
John Laverick said:
handpaper said:
Don't rely on any computer game to teach you the 'Ring - it's not the same in real life and you will crash if you immediately try to go as fast as you did in the game. You can get a headstart learning which way the track goes from games, but you don't drive a real car with your thumbs. Drive at least two laps at gentle pace, as if you were on a B-road that you don't know, and make sure you do know what's coming up next. Even when you are confident with the layout, leave a large margin beyond that - video games rarely have crashed/broken down cars on the exits of blind corners
As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
Good advise!!As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
Fallen Angel said:
Thirded.....
AW plates..... very local!!!
Locals are effing quick!AW plates..... very local!!!
Carousel? Why bother knackering your suspension, I usually just mince through at about 30, its not a race and the couple of seconds gained by attacking it a full speed arent worth the potential suspension damage!
Fallen Angel said:
AW plates..... very local!!!
Don't forget the COC's, too 
MannyA said:
Carousel? Why bother knackering your suspension, I usually just mince through at about 30, its not a race and the couple of seconds gained by attacking it a full speed arent worth the potential suspension damage!
Because there's nowhere else in the world you can pull 2g cornering on road tyres? And it's spelt 'Karussell' </pedant>The main Karussell ('Caracciola Karrusell') is the most tedious and least pleasant bend on the circuit. Plenty of folks have been thrown out shortly after entering it, some understeering, others oversteering. In other words, it's not worth getting excited about - almost all the other bends are better.
On the entry, you will see a white dot that is halfway along the third square. You want to enter the dip so that your car is roughly centred on that dot.
On the way out, you can release the steering and leave the dip a bit earlier than you think too. You can also be pretty aggressive on the exit with the throttle.
Just because it is banked, don't think that you can't slide up the gradient mid-bend - in the wet especially.
The Mini-Karussell is as described above. One place that catches people out is about 50 metres after the exit, where there is a crest. Be sure to let the steering open a bit there.
If you want maximum lateral g (except in high downforce car), several right-handers are usually the highest - Aremberg, Kallenhard, Steilstrecke, and entrance to Schwalbenschwanz. Wehrseifen and Karussell are LH exceptions.
(Btw, and no offence meant, there is nowhere that you can come close to pulling 2 lateral g in a road car with road tyres, with the possible exception of something that is extremely lightweight.)
Have fun and, like the man said, be careful. A lot of guys have tried, and a lot of guys have...
On the entry, you will see a white dot that is halfway along the third square. You want to enter the dip so that your car is roughly centred on that dot.
On the way out, you can release the steering and leave the dip a bit earlier than you think too. You can also be pretty aggressive on the exit with the throttle.
Just because it is banked, don't think that you can't slide up the gradient mid-bend - in the wet especially.
The Mini-Karussell is as described above. One place that catches people out is about 50 metres after the exit, where there is a crest. Be sure to let the steering open a bit there.
If you want maximum lateral g (except in high downforce car), several right-handers are usually the highest - Aremberg, Kallenhard, Steilstrecke, and entrance to Schwalbenschwanz. Wehrseifen and Karussell are LH exceptions.
(Btw, and no offence meant, there is nowhere that you can come close to pulling 2 lateral g in a road car with road tyres, with the possible exception of something that is extremely lightweight.)
Have fun and, like the man said, be careful. A lot of guys have tried, and a lot of guys have...
handpaper said:
Don't rely on any computer game to teach you the 'Ring - it's not the same in real life and you will crash if you immediately try to go as fast as you did in the game. You can get a headstart learning which way the track goes from games, but you don't drive a real car with your thumbs. Drive at least two laps at gentle pace, as if you were on a B-road that you don't know, and make sure you do know what's coming up next. Even when you are confident with the layout, leave a large margin beyond that - video games rarely have crashed/broken down cars on the exits of blind corners
As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
If you go round at 60mph I would suggest you will probably end up in a whole world of hurt. My old girl goes round just under 50mph and that and is quick enough to stick with nearly everything on a trouist day....As for the Karussell, it's actually a great leveller - most things go 'round at 50-60 mph regardless of how much power/grip they have. It's bumpy enough to loosen your fillings so firmly sprung vehicles have trouble getting power down.
All IMHO of course
gutmann pug said:
If you go round at 60mph I would suggest you will probably end up in a whole world of hurt. My old girl goes round just under 50mph and that and is quick enough to stick with nearly everything on a tourist day....
All IMHO of course
50-60 is what I saw (when I could hold my eyeballs still and pointed that way); I'll put it down to my hopelessly optimistic speedo All IMHO of course
Don't know what you guys are on about.... the Karousel is a great corner.
How many other tracks have such a corner ?
(Oulton Park - Although it has a slightly banked tight corner its nothing like the Karousel)
The Karousel gives you both lateral and vertical g forces all in one and if you have a car that can go round at some speed then this corner can be rewarding. You need a good exit speed as the track climbs up hill after it.... so your entry speed and the point at which you start applying the power has to be judged correctly.
As long as you hug the inside and not let the outside wheels rise above the banking then you'll be safely tucked into the bend.
I've seen cars hardly lift off round that bend and it truely looks like they are turning on rails.
As for it being a suspension breaker.... never heard that one before. Its quite bumpy yes, but not that bad.
How many other tracks have such a corner ?
(Oulton Park - Although it has a slightly banked tight corner its nothing like the Karousel)
The Karousel gives you both lateral and vertical g forces all in one and if you have a car that can go round at some speed then this corner can be rewarding. You need a good exit speed as the track climbs up hill after it.... so your entry speed and the point at which you start applying the power has to be judged correctly.
As long as you hug the inside and not let the outside wheels rise above the banking then you'll be safely tucked into the bend.
I've seen cars hardly lift off round that bend and it truely looks like they are turning on rails.
As for it being a suspension breaker.... never heard that one before. Its quite bumpy yes, but not that bad.
said:
As long as you hug the inside and not let the outside wheels rise above the banking then you'll be safely tucked into the bend.
But you need to be careful not to put your left hand side wheels into the flat bottomed part of the corner - the banking tails off (quite sharply) to a flat section at the bottom, and if you go too far into that you run the risk of being spat out (as the tyres loose significant grip). It is incredibly bumpy, particularly in a stiffly sprung car, and I'm with Flemke - it is the least enjoyable corner on the circuit. Somehow the oscillations make me feel quite ill at speed
.Kind regards
Steve
I think Ben Lovejoy's site gave me the two points that I tend to think about when approaching the Karusell. Firstly as it drops away you can't actually see the corner, but if you look dead ahead there is a row of trees. The tallest conifer is actually in line with where you will be dropping into the banking, so I generally keep the car in line with that.
When inside the Karusell, it will vary depending on what car you have as to when you get back on the power, but I usually wait until I'm on the Jaguar graffiti (someone has painted the word 'JAGUAR' in three feet high white letters on the banking itself. This works in a Clio 172 (FWD) but I can appreciate some more powerful (especially RWD cars) will differ significantly.
I'd echo what others have said here, respect it, don't try and break any lap records, and just enjoy the place and the atmosphere.
When inside the Karusell, it will vary depending on what car you have as to when you get back on the power, but I usually wait until I'm on the Jaguar graffiti (someone has painted the word 'JAGUAR' in three feet high white letters on the banking itself. This works in a Clio 172 (FWD) but I can appreciate some more powerful (especially RWD cars) will differ significantly.
I'd echo what others have said here, respect it, don't try and break any lap records, and just enjoy the place and the atmosphere.
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