Discussion
For my first track day in my own car (an "old banger" I might add), this month at Castle Combe, what should I be doing when it comes to braking? I don't want to warp the discs or anything - what is it that causes the discs to warp and is there anything I should do to avoid it?
I haven't upgraded the brakes but will be fitting uprated pads (maybe Pagid RS19) with new standard OEM (Brembo?) Mercedes brakes.
Should I go easy on the brakes at first? Or ease off towards the end to cool them down? I've never got familiar with brake fade before, how can I keep an eye out for it and what should I expect?
My tyres are Pirelli P6000s. Will they wear badly? Are they likely to overheat or anything, if so what sort of signs might there be? I will keep an eye out for any blistering or anything on them.
Any other tips? As the reality of a track day in a 16 year old car with no service history bought off ebay becomes closer I'm starting to worry
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I haven't upgraded the brakes but will be fitting uprated pads (maybe Pagid RS19) with new standard OEM (Brembo?) Mercedes brakes.
Should I go easy on the brakes at first? Or ease off towards the end to cool them down? I've never got familiar with brake fade before, how can I keep an eye out for it and what should I expect?
My tyres are Pirelli P6000s. Will they wear badly? Are they likely to overheat or anything, if so what sort of signs might there be? I will keep an eye out for any blistering or anything on them.
Any other tips? As the reality of a track day in a 16 year old car with no service history bought off ebay becomes closer I'm starting to worry
.I’m no expert, but I tend to do the following;
Have one easy warm up lap to get the tyres, brakes and engine fluids up to temperature, I’m of the opinion that brakes shouldn’t be hammered from stone cold unless you can’t avoid it (i.e. emergency stops). When out on track, I brake hard and firmly when I need to before the corner, I try not to feather the brakes as that encourages overheating. The less time you are on the brakes, the more time they interact with the cool surroundings to prevent overheating. When it’s time to come in to the pits, I always have a cool down lap where I take it steady to let the pads, discs and oil get to more ‘normal temperatures’ before stopping the car. When you return to the pits, refrain from putting the handbrake on immediately, leave it in gear as the handbrake can seize on if your brakes are cooked.
You’ll recognise brake fade as “oooooooh
why does my car not appear to be slowing down even though I’m hard on the middle pedal!”. You should start to recognise this before it reaches a critical level, as braking efficiency will decrease, so just ease off and let them cool. If you boil the fluid you’re day is effectively over, as the fluid will need changing. If you’re doing the pads and discs before your trackday it might be worth uprating the fluid to some high temperature stuff, I use this in the clio, and it works well:
www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=562_598&products_id=4088
Have one easy warm up lap to get the tyres, brakes and engine fluids up to temperature, I’m of the opinion that brakes shouldn’t be hammered from stone cold unless you can’t avoid it (i.e. emergency stops). When out on track, I brake hard and firmly when I need to before the corner, I try not to feather the brakes as that encourages overheating. The less time you are on the brakes, the more time they interact with the cool surroundings to prevent overheating. When it’s time to come in to the pits, I always have a cool down lap where I take it steady to let the pads, discs and oil get to more ‘normal temperatures’ before stopping the car. When you return to the pits, refrain from putting the handbrake on immediately, leave it in gear as the handbrake can seize on if your brakes are cooked.
You’ll recognise brake fade as “oooooooh
why does my car not appear to be slowing down even though I’m hard on the middle pedal!”. You should start to recognise this before it reaches a critical level, as braking efficiency will decrease, so just ease off and let them cool. If you boil the fluid you’re day is effectively over, as the fluid will need changing. If you’re doing the pads and discs before your trackday it might be worth uprating the fluid to some high temperature stuff, I use this in the clio, and it works well: www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=562_598&products_id=4088
if you havent done so already I'd change the fluid to some thing like motul RBF600, ATE super racing blue or AP racing stuff to prevent it boiling. If it does boil you can bleed the brakes usually the fronts only is sufficent to restore the pedal feel. also use the cool down lap as intended, dont use the hand brake when parking up it may stick on. You could try rolling the car forwards once parked up to prevent any hot spots on the disks under the pads when back in the paddock. have a great day.
pikey
pikey
One of the most important things is to do a good cooling down lap or two every time you plan to come in. Drive round at a slow pace (off the racing line obviously) and try to keep off the brakes as much as possible.
Getting cool air over the disks, pads etc. will stop too much heat being transferred into the fluid when the car is parked up in the paddock and hopefully keep the pedal firm.
If you are unlucky enough to pick up a red flag and can't do this, drive round the paddock a bit.
Hope this helps.
Getting cool air over the disks, pads etc. will stop too much heat being transferred into the fluid when the car is parked up in the paddock and hopefully keep the pedal firm.
If you are unlucky enough to pick up a red flag and can't do this, drive round the paddock a bit.
Hope this helps.
My trackday car used to be seriously underbraked due to the rules in the auto-cross racing I was also doing. Pretty much all the important points have been hit here, above:
- Bleed your brakes prior to the event
- Replace standard fluid with something with a higher heat tolerance
- Always take a cool down lap before coming into the pits
- Allow the car to drift forward a little bit on stopping to avoid creating a hot spot
- Don't use your e-brake if you can avoid it
Using this advice I was able to get through several events without warping the rotors or otherwise damaging the car. It should be obvious pretty quickly whether your brakes are going to cut it or not. Just stay within the limits of the car. If you start to feel the pedal getting a little soft, run a mid-session cooldown lap or two. And if it is an open pitlane event, then run shorter stints on track.
- Bleed your brakes prior to the event
- Replace standard fluid with something with a higher heat tolerance
- Always take a cool down lap before coming into the pits
- Allow the car to drift forward a little bit on stopping to avoid creating a hot spot
- Don't use your e-brake if you can avoid it
Using this advice I was able to get through several events without warping the rotors or otherwise damaging the car. It should be obvious pretty quickly whether your brakes are going to cut it or not. Just stay within the limits of the car. If you start to feel the pedal getting a little soft, run a mid-session cooldown lap or two. And if it is an open pitlane event, then run shorter stints on track.
What they all said and...have tuition is my advice - if your going on the 27th Ben is very good. You'll be smoother and more consistent. Coombe is a long lap and your slowdown can be done fairly easily with minimal braking so you should be ok if you dont go mad.
If it is the 27th I'll see you there
, if not good luck!
If it is the 27th I'll see you there
, if not good luck!
and beware the first sessions icy patches... introduce yourself and we'll have a cuppa and compare notes Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff