Something I have never been clear on: Accidents
Discussion
Very strong possibility that they wouldn't be insured, most people venture trackside without adequate insurance 
If you have trackday insurance and they don't you can usually claim for your vehicle on your insurance and they can try to claim against you for damage to theirs. If they have insurance and you don't they can claim for their car and you can try to claim against them. If you're both insured the insurance companies argue the toss between themselves, as in any RTA.
If you have trackday insurance and they don't you can usually claim for your vehicle on your insurance and they can try to claim against you for damage to theirs. If they have insurance and you don't they can claim for their car and you can try to claim against them. If you're both insured the insurance companies argue the toss between themselves, as in any RTA.Hmm, either way looks bad from an NCB loss perspective. I guess determining fault is the tricky thing - if I'm stationary in road traffic and someone smacks into the back of me, it's pretty clear who is at fault. Might be more difficult on track if someone in front of you (say) loses the back end at a corner and starts to spin and you broadside them. Or indeed vice versa.
Although in my experience ins. companies seem to have a gentlemen's agreement to try and meter out blame between all parties and spread costs; also recoup more of their costs through reducing your NCB and making you pay a higher premium. Which seems rather dodgy to me.
Although in my experience ins. companies seem to have a gentlemen's agreement to try and meter out blame between all parties and spread costs; also recoup more of their costs through reducing your NCB and making you pay a higher premium. Which seems rather dodgy to me.
mrsd said: Gentlemen and Insurance companies in the same sentence. Odd. Shouldn't impact on your road NCB though-assuming you have a seperate track policy, though you would be obliged to inform your insurers
I'm not sure you would inform your insurers.. you'd have to ask them for their definition of an "accident"... otherwise anyone who goes stockcar racing is potentially knackered..
Matt.
As I understand it if you have ensured that your road-risk policy covers track-days then it works the same as any RTA.
It would be very foolish IMO to venture onto track in one's expensive road car P&J without being comprehensively insured.
I can understand why one might take one's dedicated track car on track without insurance - its probably not insurable in the usual sense. But even then I imagine some sort of liability insurance would be wise.
Good old "Competition Car Insurance" could certainly advise...
It would be very foolish IMO to venture onto track in one's expensive road car P&J without being comprehensively insured.
I can understand why one might take one's dedicated track car on track without insurance - its probably not insurable in the usual sense. But even then I imagine some sort of liability insurance would be wise.
Good old "Competition Car Insurance" could certainly advise...
No problem insuring a non road legal car for track use, but it's v. expensive. As far as road cars go, having a totally seperate track policy is worthwhile, for the reasons outlined above, rather than extending your road policy. You are obliged to inform your road insurer of any damage to the vehicle insured (see policy) even if you claim from someone elses policy or another policy you hold, whether you choose to or not is up to you.
In the last 15 years I have never heard of anyone claiming for damage from someone else following an on track accident on a track day. The convention has always been that you pay your own damage regardless of fault.
I would imagine that if it became the case that people starting claiming off other peoples insurance it would get very, very messy.
Melindi
www.goldtrack.co.uk
I would imagine that if it became the case that people starting claiming off other peoples insurance it would get very, very messy.
Melindi
www.goldtrack.co.uk
So can I get this straight? Is it common practice to not extend your standard policy (unless you have a protected policy, perhaps) rather, obtain specific, comprehensive track cover?
Any recommendations? My premium from the existing insurer is just over a hundred quid for the Silverstone day but there is a £3k excess - is this a crap deal to be bettered elsewhere?
Sweating, even sans Nomex.
Any recommendations? My premium from the existing insurer is just over a hundred quid for the Silverstone day but there is a £3k excess - is this a crap deal to be bettered elsewhere?
Sweating, even sans Nomex.
derestrictor said: So can I get this straight? Is it common practice to not extend your standard policy (unless you have a protected policy, perhaps) rather, obtain specific, comprehensive track cover?
Any recommendations? My premium from the existing insurer is just over a hundred quid for the Silverstone day but there is a £3k excess - is this a crap deal to be bettered elsewhere?
Sweating, even sans Nomex.
No it is not a crap deal DeR. Its not great but not crap. Performance Marque do a policy in which PCGB Track events (ONLY) are covered for free with a £750 excess. I was offered other policies which had a charge for track days (£50 or so) but covered any Track Day Organiser. Myself - I took the view that I would do PCGB events only in the P&J and hire cars off Bookatrack for the rest of the time...so I got the Performance Marque deal as it was cheapest for me.
Competition Car Insurance will cover your car with a track day policy. But it is REALLY expensive. £500 or so for a day's insurance for an expensive Porsche.
Another option is to take out insurance with CCI which only covers a portion of the value of the car. This might be suitable in two respects...1) You want to cover the excess loss from your road insurance..or 2) You simply want to take out insurance which would pay for repairs in the event of a prang. You can get a lot of repairs done for 10K say - the premium for which is less daunting.
My previous road policy has a 5K excess on track days and I just took the risk myself - rather than insure it.
And finally...
Just how likely is it that you will prang. The answer...not very. Sure it could happen - and for that I recommend insurance. But unless you're going to go bonkers most newbies to the track tend to be s-l-o-w rather than unsafe.
So stop sweating. And start anticipating....
gtdc said: In the last 15 years I have never heard of anyone claiming for damage from someone else following an on track accident on a track day. The convention has always been that you pay your own damage regardless of fault.
Not only heard of it, done it. At my insurer's insistence. Not particularly messy, just knock for knock.
BTW Melindi, your site's not loading ATM.
>> Edited by mrsd on Wednesday 19th March 14:31
Thanks Don.
I think it's probably ok then...after all, I don't know how competitive/good a Performance Marques policy is/would be compared to my existing one and as you say, I'll be driving like Miss Daisy anyway. (Yeah, right...
)
Btw, have you seen the 'In-Car Active' DVD ROM feature in GTPP this issue? Comprehensive, multiple angled camera footage with racer Mark Hales expertly narrating the crack round Silverstone for the unitiated. Might give it a whirl.
I think it's probably ok then...after all, I don't know how competitive/good a Performance Marques policy is/would be compared to my existing one and as you say, I'll be driving like Miss Daisy anyway. (Yeah, right...
) Btw, have you seen the 'In-Car Active' DVD ROM feature in GTPP this issue? Comprehensive, multiple angled camera footage with racer Mark Hales expertly narrating the crack round Silverstone for the unitiated. Might give it a whirl.
derestrictor said: Btw, have you seen the 'In-Car Active' DVD ROM feature in GTPP this issue? Comprehensive, multiple angled camera footage with racer Mark Hales expertly narrating the crack round Silverstone for the unitiated. Might give it a whirl.
I have a copy myself. Very good. Brings to life the circuit guide. I still recommend the F1 game as a method of learning which way the track goes though...
I have given up insuring my car for track as it was costing about £200 per day (to get any sort of sensible cover) - and I (like others here) think it important to keep track and road separate, as NCB road insurance loss would be a nightmare.
Since giving up insuring trackdays, I am many thousands up (doing about 25 days a year) and, out of interest I have never seen a car/car incident (just lots of spinning off into armco, which I try and avoid!)
Steve
Since giving up insuring trackdays, I am many thousands up (doing about 25 days a year) and, out of interest I have never seen a car/car incident (just lots of spinning off into armco, which I try and avoid!)
Steve
For only 10% extra premium on top of my road insurance, I get insurance for an unlimited number track days per year. Excess (track days only): I have to pay the first 10% of any claim.
This is through the High Performance Club's insurance scheme with Peter Best Insurance Services, but you could ask Peter Best if they have a similar policy for non-HPC members.
>> Edited by huge_ego on Wednesday 19th March 20:08
This is through the High Performance Club's insurance scheme with Peter Best Insurance Services, but you could ask Peter Best if they have a similar policy for non-HPC members.
>> Edited by huge_ego on Wednesday 19th March 20:08
Hmmm..
I have insurance with Sunninghill, who give you trackday cover (with £1000 excess IIRC)"free" as a part of the cover... and the cover was the cheapest I could find anywhere regardless of the trackday extension on the policy.
Before Sunninghill I bought insurance through Bookatrack per event on booking the trackday. This was £82.50 a time for £5000's worth of cover, but you could buy £2000's worth of cover for £42.50 if you didn't need so much or much more if you felt it was beneficial.
Cheers
Matt.
I have insurance with Sunninghill, who give you trackday cover (with £1000 excess IIRC)"free" as a part of the cover... and the cover was the cheapest I could find anywhere regardless of the trackday extension on the policy.
Before Sunninghill I bought insurance through Bookatrack per event on booking the trackday. This was £82.50 a time for £5000's worth of cover, but you could buy £2000's worth of cover for £42.50 if you didn't need so much or much more if you felt it was beneficial.
Cheers
Matt.
Since you cannot determine "fault" on a trackday it remains for each driver to cough up the funds to repair their own cars, using insurance or not.
Sounds a bit harsh imagining your yellow beauty being T-boned by a some muppet in a yellow Golf
but in practice has anyone ever seen contact on a track day?
Certainly BaT have never had a single occurence of two cars hitting each other so far.
Mark
Sounds a bit harsh imagining your yellow beauty being T-boned by a some muppet in a yellow Golf
but in practice has anyone ever seen contact on a track day? Certainly BaT have never had a single occurence of two cars hitting each other so far.
Mark
I've always been insured for trackdays... just don't want to take the risk. But the best way is to assume nobody else has insurance and drive appropriately. That doesn't mean driving like you're in a built up estate and driving past a school at 3pm (as I'm sure you all kill your speed in such circumstances!).
If you are coming up to someone who's in a slower vehicle then back off and wait for them to signal you past - don't tailgate them as it'll only agitate them or encourage them to drive harder on the limit, which might mean they're more likely to spin off and you collect them as you're too close to react. I did encounter someone who wouldn't let me past but usually they get red flagged after a while and even if they don't you can always back right off so you can still drive on the limit without taking them out.
And if someone is tailgating you then don't drive anywhere near the limit - just let them by at the next straight.
The way I see it, you still need to get home at the end of the day.
And after all trackdays are non-competitive
As to fault, given that there'd only be an accident if someone was driving too close... and reverse gear is hardly used on the track
If you are coming up to someone who's in a slower vehicle then back off and wait for them to signal you past - don't tailgate them as it'll only agitate them or encourage them to drive harder on the limit, which might mean they're more likely to spin off and you collect them as you're too close to react. I did encounter someone who wouldn't let me past but usually they get red flagged after a while and even if they don't you can always back right off so you can still drive on the limit without taking them out.
And if someone is tailgating you then don't drive anywhere near the limit - just let them by at the next straight.
The way I see it, you still need to get home at the end of the day.
And after all trackdays are non-competitive
As to fault, given that there'd only be an accident if someone was driving too close... and reverse gear is hardly used on the track
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