is Castle Combe statistically more dangerous?

[Trikster]

Mrs T & I have done quite a few track days, previously having the insurance on the main car policy, sharing car time on circuit

We've recently bought an Elise between us and have booked our first outing at Castle Combe for this Wed... went on Moris' website to sort a one off insurance this morning and it's one of the listed circuits where they won't insure a second driver

Fortunately found someone elsewhere so all sorted, but just got me thinking - especially as it's a double whammy for us, first time out in this car, and first time on this circuit.... do we need to tread even more carefully than usual???


Now just got to sort a towing eye as the previous owner thoughtfully didn't leave it with the car.....

[brillomaster]

Well, castle combe do action days which are carnage, and dont help the statistics, but if you're on a proper trackday you should be fine.

I understand the reputation comes from one corner, Avon rise into quarry corner. Fast approach, slight kink just as you start braking, easy to lose the car and find the wall.

But if you're used to trackdays and build up your speed im sure you'll be fine.

[mmm-five]

It's a fast circuit that draws you in to taking some of the kinks faster than you should, and the higher speed tends to mean you can't recover it if you lose it.

Plus it used to attract those who wanted a 'cheap' test day for their race car - who didn't care about overtaking rules or other peoples' property.

I haven't been back since a 'race car' on using the track day as an unofficial test day overtook on the brakes on my inside into Quarry and required me to steer off the track to avoid his lunge. The organiser refused to even give the other driver a warning probably because they were a local / well-known competitor. Luckily I got away with only a bit of damage of having to drive across the grass and a concrete path before I could rejoin the track.

Edited by mmm-five on Sunday 9th August 13:40

[brillomaster]

Have a read of this, in particular in relation to Avon rise and quarry corner...

https://www.lotus-on-track.com/circuit-guides/cast...

[GetCarter]

Avon Rise is tricky, Camp Corner also catches people out, but action days when lunatics turn up is the main problem. Stick to a proper track day.

[clarkey]

Avon Rise into Quarry is high speed and very tricky to get right. Bumpy right where you don\t want it to be. If it goes wrong in something like an Elise it'll get messy very quickly.
Big accidents happen at Tower sometimes as well as the tyre wall is close and you brake hard from pretty high speed.
Camp is very bumpy at the apex and very fast, so could unsettle an Elise quickly.

Every track is dangerous. Personally I wouldn't bother to insure, but would start by driving at 75% at these three places on the track. Who cares if you are a little slower than you could be, it's just a track day.

In summary, I reckon more significant accidents happen at Castle Combe than anywhere else as you'll be going quickly if it goes wrong!

[super7]

Only circuit I went off on when racing Caterhams for a couple of years......

Went off at Avon Rise and ended up in the tyre wall at Quarry! Only nerfed the wall slightly which loosened the flattened off steering wheel nuckle but got back on track and finished the race. First corner after the 'Off' the steering wheel turned another 45deg before the front wheels followed.

Nice fast track though, even with dodgy steering

[Terminator X]

That corner at the end of the pits straight is notorious. My insurer said it's the most dangerous / risky track in the UK.

TX.

[hengti]

There's very little run-off and it's all grass..

Was much more daunting before the chicanes went in, late 90s?

[K50 DEL]

hengti said:

There's very little run-off and it's all grass..

Was much more daunting before the chicanes went in, late 90s?

Indeed, the majority of my trackdays were at Combe well before those chicanes went in.

I stopped doing trackdays completely when the absurd rule that states "no overtaking into corners" came in.... in the lower powered cars that I drove that was the only place I could overtake and I got fed up with every single lap getting held up through the bends by Billy big-balls in his 200hp motor before having him pull away down the straights... only to hold me up into the next bend, rinse and repeat.

Combe's still my local track and I still love it though!

[larrylamb11]

super7 said:

Went off at Avon Rise and ended up in the tyre wall at Quarry!

Which is exactly what happened to me! We were well into the day, so had already had lots of seat time but that corner caught me and I hit the trye wall, backwards, at pace! Hard enough to rip mine and my passenger's seats out of the floor....

For me, there isn't enough run-off in certain places at Combe and pretty much every time I've been there at least one person has monumentally wrecked a car. I decided I don't like the odds so tend to stick to places with wider run offs now....

In a mid-engined Lotus I'd be nervous.

[Trikster]

Thanks all, well it’s our first day out in this car so unlikely to be going 10/10ths, or even 5/10ths to be honest

As ever will build up gradually during the day and a couple of instructor sessions booked - though looking at the weather we might be too hot by the afternoon…. the joys of getting old…

[AWZ4]

If you've got a Lotus can highly recommend Lotus on Track. I've done Combe the past couple of years now and the Lotus day I did (even though I wasn't in a Lotus!) was by far the best day I've done. Lowest numbers and most respectful of each other on track. More importantly no ridiculous 'race cars/wannabe's' on slicks which in my opinion have no place amongst normal road cars on a regular track day.

I didn't have to queue once on the Lotus day compared to other TDO's and the track felt pretty empty large parts of the day so only had to worry about yourself, no dive bombers on the brakes

Sounds like you've got the right mindset so you'll be fine I'm sure. I did see a Lotus spin at Folly recently and go into the grass at the infield. Don't think I've ever seen that before in the dry!
As other's have said above, Avon Rise / Quarry are where the majority of incidents happen. The main issue is if you take too much speed up the rise / get overconfident, it's very difficult to sort it out when you get to the top as there isn't much room for heavy braking before you have to turn for Quarry and if you heavy brake too early / late into the corner you unbalance the car and end up in a barrier so just make sure you take enough speed out initially at the start of the rise.
Having said that, watching proper race cars up there shows how much speed you can carry if you have the car underneath you!

Edited by AWZ4 on Tuesday 11th August 13:28

[LennyM1984]

I've done a reasonable number of races at Castle Combe and quite a few track days and the mistake people often make is to try to get too far over after Avon Rise and before Quarry. People yank the car all the way to the left after/over the rise which is unnecessary and can unbalance the car.

You want to be just to the left of centre (you can use the traffic light thing as a guide) but if you go in too fast, you can also kind of straight line it to the apex of Quarry - you will lose mid-corner speed but it gives you more time for braking and can be quite a handy line to take during a race or if it is very wet.

On a clear track, my usual approach is a little "comfort" brake just before the rise to scrub off a bit of speed, balanced or full throttle over the hill to keep the car stable, and then hard on the brakes. In a Lotus, you ought to be able to do similar but find something you are comfortable with and just avoid braking/yanking over the hill. If you do have to brake over the hill for some reason, keep the car straight and aim for the apex (losing a little corner speed is infinitely preferable to losing your bodywork!)

The instructors at Combe are all really good (the usual ones have raced extensively there) so get some tuition and see what advice they have.