Driver Training
Discussion
Hello Mark,
It is a familiar idea and by asking about training, it sounds like you're starting with a good plan. I certainly wish I started working with a coach earlier.
Many track day organisers provide some form of tuition either as part of the day OR for an additional charge. However, working directly with your own instructor or coach for a day or even longer does provide much greater learning. Though there is an argument that it's more cost effective to get a little 'seat time' before having a full-days instruction (though I assume you are used to the control of your own road car).
Personally, I would identify the circuit you'd like to start at. I haven't yet had the pleasure of Croft, Cadwell or Oulton Park. However, Donington National is possibly my favourite circuit (a true wheelsmith might argue Donington GP is better than the national).
Then contact the circuit and ask if there are any ARDS instructors they recommend for your car (FWD v RWD etc) and your ambitions. You can find a very long list at www.ards.co.uk
There are many great coaches worth the investment, I can recommend Darren Burke and Nigel Greensall, but they understandably get booked up months in advance.
Be warned, the bug can bite. You may wake-up in a few years time, in a bedsit over a fish n chip shop, holding keys to a lock-up containing your race car and trailer.
Enjoy
It is a familiar idea and by asking about training, it sounds like you're starting with a good plan. I certainly wish I started working with a coach earlier.
Many track day organisers provide some form of tuition either as part of the day OR for an additional charge. However, working directly with your own instructor or coach for a day or even longer does provide much greater learning. Though there is an argument that it's more cost effective to get a little 'seat time' before having a full-days instruction (though I assume you are used to the control of your own road car).
Personally, I would identify the circuit you'd like to start at. I haven't yet had the pleasure of Croft, Cadwell or Oulton Park. However, Donington National is possibly my favourite circuit (a true wheelsmith might argue Donington GP is better than the national).
Then contact the circuit and ask if there are any ARDS instructors they recommend for your car (FWD v RWD etc) and your ambitions. You can find a very long list at www.ards.co.uk
There are many great coaches worth the investment, I can recommend Darren Burke and Nigel Greensall, but they understandably get booked up months in advance.
Be warned, the bug can bite. You may wake-up in a few years time, in a bedsit over a fish n chip shop, holding keys to a lock-up containing your race car and trailer.
Enjoy
Car limits at North Weald is one option - I did it before when it was Andy Walsh but there’s a new guy leading it now. Training on a big wide runway so nothing to hit (your insurance with Aviva will be very unlikely to cover any of these off road courses). The team at NW started with Elise’s so well used to your car. Good opportunity to see what happens over there limit and how to correct.
A bit more expensive, but very good, would be CAT driver training. They use Milbrook - obviously more to hit there than an open airfield however it’s very controlled and you will normally be the sole car on that particular part of the proving ground.
A bit more expensive, but very good, would be CAT driver training. They use Milbrook - obviously more to hit there than an open airfield however it’s very controlled and you will normally be the sole car on that particular part of the proving ground.
You need to be careful to get what you are actually looking for here.
Most (race)track training relates more to how to drive quickly and extend the limits of the car while staying within them than to controlling the car at the limits. It may sound like an unimportant difference but learning car control at the limit tends to involve exceeding those limits repeatedly which tends to mean firing it off at least occasionally. Not ideal for the car or driver, and speaking as an instructor, not ideal for us either
.
Track training will help you understand a lot about your car and there are days (usually wet ones on particular tracks) that are conducive to a lot of practice in exceeding grip limits but usually you would be better doing one of the airfield car control days where you can get a lot more repetition with a higher degree of safety, and in a much shorter time.
Most (race)track training relates more to how to drive quickly and extend the limits of the car while staying within them than to controlling the car at the limits. It may sound like an unimportant difference but learning car control at the limit tends to involve exceeding those limits repeatedly which tends to mean firing it off at least occasionally. Not ideal for the car or driver, and speaking as an instructor, not ideal for us either
.Track training will help you understand a lot about your car and there are days (usually wet ones on particular tracks) that are conducive to a lot of practice in exceeding grip limits but usually you would be better doing one of the airfield car control days where you can get a lot more repetition with a higher degree of safety, and in a much shorter time.
I did a car control day with Don Palmer at Bruntingthorpe about 15 years ago it was very enjoyable and it transformed my driving from an IAM wheel shuffler to someone much more in tune with the car.
Checking out his website, it says he’s retired now but can still be persuaded to coach -> https://www.donpalmer.co.uk/
Chris
Checking out his website, it says he’s retired now but can still be persuaded to coach -> https://www.donpalmer.co.uk/
Chris
Steve H said:
Most (race)track training relates more to how to drive quickly and extend the limits of the car while staying within them than to controlling the car at the limits.
As a novice on a budget, I'd welcome your opinion on this point.
Before each race I try and have a day coaching at that track with my (great) coach. Where my mindset is more on 'extending my limits' than 'controlling them at the limits'. I have exceeded my limits in both the dry and the wet and been spat off on a number of occasions.
As a shunt would mean the end of the season, is 'extending my limits' the right mindset?
Thanks
Hi WG
It’s a hard question to answer without knowing how you managed to get spat off but the fact that it has happened a few times makes me think something isn’t working
.
The nature of training on race tracks, and in particular on trackdays, is that you need to be fairly risk averse. If you throw the car at every corner with no fear of consequences you will pretty swiftly end up in a barrier or being kicked off as a risk to other cars.
This tends to mean pushing consistently to increase the limits and not exceed them too often/too much. It can result in very good pace but can be slow to build for some drivers and doesn’t give a lot of practice in actual car control.
So I would guess you either need to practice your consistency in how you push towards the limits of the car, or look for a bit of additional help with car control at a venue where you can overdrive deliberately and safely to build the skill in controlling it when it happens.
It’s a hard question to answer without knowing how you managed to get spat off but the fact that it has happened a few times makes me think something isn’t working
.The nature of training on race tracks, and in particular on trackdays, is that you need to be fairly risk averse. If you throw the car at every corner with no fear of consequences you will pretty swiftly end up in a barrier or being kicked off as a risk to other cars.
This tends to mean pushing consistently to increase the limits and not exceed them too often/too much. It can result in very good pace but can be slow to build for some drivers and doesn’t give a lot of practice in actual car control.
So I would guess you either need to practice your consistency in how you push towards the limits of the car, or look for a bit of additional help with car control at a venue where you can overdrive deliberately and safely to build the skill in controlling it when it happens.
Redline88 said:
Car limits at North Weald is one option - I did it before when it was Andy Walsh but there’s a new guy leading it now. Training on a big wide runway so nothing to hit (your insurance with Aviva will be very unlikely to cover any of these off road courses). The team at NW started with Elise’s so well used to your car. Good opportunity to see what happens over there limit and how to correct.
There is another one based at North Weald called AW Driver Training, which I strongly suspect is Andy Walsh.For track training, you can easily spend thousands on coaching before you know it.
Or you can sink £5k into a decent sim rig and an iRacing subscription and put in a few thousand competitive laps.
It’s not a 100% substitute but it’s a massive help in learning car control skills if you buy a decent rig.
I was shocked how much I had improved after a winter on the sim, and if you buy one second hand you’ll get most of your money back if you sell it later.
You may end up living above a chip shop with a £30k full motion sim rig in your bedsit mind you…
Or you can sink £5k into a decent sim rig and an iRacing subscription and put in a few thousand competitive laps.
It’s not a 100% substitute but it’s a massive help in learning car control skills if you buy a decent rig.
I was shocked how much I had improved after a winter on the sim, and if you buy one second hand you’ll get most of your money back if you sell it later.
You may end up living above a chip shop with a £30k full motion sim rig in your bedsit mind you…
Looks like strong future demand for bedsits above fish n chip shops!
Your point on SIMs is very interesting. I've used a £100 second-hand PlayStation for track familiarisation and used DPR's brilliant SIM in Redhill a couple of times. Both of which are very cost effective to learn a track.
Appreciate we're all focusing on different areas. However, my mind works differently in a SIM compared to the real thing.
When I remove jeopardy in the SIM corner entry speed is much higher and unsurprisingly my times are much better (Brands Indy = 2 secs, Snetterton 300 = 5 secs!!), oh, and my car-handling becomes god-like.
When jeopardy is brought back into play my corner entry speed drops. Was frustrated yesterday by my right foot's automatic impulse to lift...
Your point on SIMs is very interesting. I've used a £100 second-hand PlayStation for track familiarisation and used DPR's brilliant SIM in Redhill a couple of times. Both of which are very cost effective to learn a track.
Appreciate we're all focusing on different areas. However, my mind works differently in a SIM compared to the real thing.
When I remove jeopardy in the SIM corner entry speed is much higher and unsurprisingly my times are much better (Brands Indy = 2 secs, Snetterton 300 = 5 secs!!), oh, and my car-handling becomes god-like.
When jeopardy is brought back into play my corner entry speed drops. Was frustrated yesterday by my right foot's automatic impulse to lift...
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