Cheap RWD first track car in 2024 market

[Jt23]

Hi all,

Been cruising the PH forums a long time without signing up or posting, but today's the day.

I've been in a multi year battle with the financially responsible part of myself while constantly scrolling AT/ebay/FB market place with the itch to get myself a fun manual performance car and get out on track. Loved cars ever since I can remember but things have never aligned so far to push me to buy.

I've tried to deal with that itch, get gran turismo 7 I said, that'll help. 650 hours later, i still had the itch. Booked myself a palmer sport day to 'get it out of my system', well I did that yesterday, got top 3 times and was left foot braking without thinking (thanks gt7) and now I'm here looking for buying advice because I obviously need a track car now. Pretty sure I had it in for myself all along here.

I know there's about a million of these threads, but they're old and the market has moved on significantly since covid. I'm 32 driving since 17 with no accidents so insurance isn't so much of an issue. I'm semi competent with a spanner - servicing, brakes, suspension I'm mainly familiar with but always learning. Budget ideally below 5k, 2-3.5 would be cheap, 4-5 is pricer, 6 is probably top end.

I don't want an mx5, just to rule that out. I know they're a solid first rwd, great to learn in and cheap, but just not my thing. Cars I've been looking at:

E46 330ci - high on the list but should I be concerned with mileage? Lots in the 130k-150k or so mark now and with manual coupes being rarer, they're cheap but a little pricy considering age/mileage. I know look for a well maintained one, but realistically at what point are the savings offset by potential maintenance or going bang

E92 335i - main concerns here are weight and maintenance, also higher up front cost

Mk2 mr2 - love these, but really getting on now in terms of age. I think the mk3 is ugly as sin.

Blobeye impreza - I know this isn't rwd but grew up with mcrae and the child in me screams out for that burble. The rationalist says it'll probably need a rebuild every 5 minutes.

Z4 3.0si - works on paper but doesn't excite me so much, have heard the nose can feel a bit far in front of you

Open to any suggestions here and general advice on buying a car in better condition with lower mileage, or not worrying so much and saving money on a fixer upper. I just want fun, fast, and rwd

[paulwirral]

Out of your list I’ve owned and driven a few of them at the ring , I’m almost twice your age , don’t discount a z4 , I bought one and genuinely didn’t rate it until I did a couple of laps of our favourite circuit , they’re cheapish to maintain and easy to fix and on a track they’re great out of the box , evo magazine said exactly the same when they had one as a long termer when you were still watching cartoons , no offence meant !
I’ve had 3 over the years and a 3.0 six speed is a great car and very underrated.
I don’t own one now and haven’t for a few years by the way so there’s no favouritism .

[iguana]

Shame to rule out mx5 so much fun & learning potential & go well with boost. I've had quite a few.

I'd far recommend a 130i over an e46 330i, just picked up a little cracker & had fun thrashing it round UK & Europe this summer, Meister R coilovers, Miltek exhaust, £2k perfect.

They have decent power a tough engine, easy upgrades. I've had lots of e36 M3s & tracked many of em, the 130 is similar pace & a more modern chassis. Obvs like all non M bimmers no lsd as stock but easy enough to sort & more power too.

Edited by iguana on Saturday 31st August 21:26

[Jt23]

paulwirral said:

Out of your list I’ve owned and driven a few of them at the ring , I’m almost twice your age , don’t discount a z4 , I bought one and genuinely didn’t rate it until I did a couple of laps of our favourite circuit , they’re cheapish to maintain and easy to fix and on a track they’re great out of the box , evo magazine said exactly the same when they had one as a long termer when you were still watching cartoons , no offence meant !
I’ve had 3 over the years and a 3.0 six speed is a great car and very underrated.

Cheers and none taken! I do love the look of the coupes, harder to find in my price range but there are some from time to time.

Do you know If there's much in it between the si and the i? I know it's a different engine and the si is superior with about 40(?)hp more, but some of the 3.0i are a fair bit cheaper, wondering if the difference is worth the wedge, there's a soft top i near me that's been up a while at 4k, could probably haggle down

iguana said:

Shame to rule out mx5 so much fun & learning potential & go well with boost. I've had quite a few.

I'd far recommend a 130i over an e46 330i, just picked up a little cracker & had fun thrashing it round UK & Europe this summer, Meister R coilovers, Miltek exhaust, £2k perfect.

They have decent power a tough engine, easy upgrades. I've had lots of e36 M3s & tracked many of em, the 130 is similar pace & a more modern chassis. Obvs like all non M bimmers no lsd as stock but easy enough to sort & more power too.

Edited by iguana on Saturday 31st August 21:26

I toy with the idea of an mx5 from time to time, but feels like a car I'd rather have a go in than own, mk3s seem to get some pretty decent tin worm as well.

E36s are nice as well, but also getting on a bit, never been that keen on the shape of the 130 though, had a look just now but will keep an eye

[paulwirral]

Jt23 said:

paulwirral said:

Out of your list I’ve owned and driven a few of them at the ring , I’m almost twice your age , don’t discount a z4 , I bought one and genuinely didn’t rate it until I did a couple of laps of our favourite circuit , they’re cheapish to maintain and easy to fix and on a track they’re great out of the box , evo magazine said exactly the same when they had one as a long termer when you were still watching cartoons , no offence meant !
I’ve had 3 over the years and a 3.0 six speed is a great car and very underrated.

Cheers and none taken! I do love the look of the coupes, harder to find in my price range but there are some from time to time.

Do you know If there's much in it between the si and the i? I know it's a different engine and the si is superior with about 40(?)hp more, but some of the 3.0i are a fair bit cheaper, wondering if the difference is worth the wedge, there's a soft top i near me that's been up a while at 4k, could probably haggle down

iguana said:

Shame to rule out mx5 so much fun & learning potential & go well with boost. I've had quite a few.

I'd far recommend a 130i over an e46 330i, just picked up a little cracker & had fun thrashing it round UK & Europe this summer, Meister R coilovers, Miltek exhaust, £2k perfect.

They have decent power a tough engine, easy upgrades. I've had lots of e36 M3s & tracked many of em, the 130 is similar pace & a more modern chassis. Obvs like all non M bimmers no lsd as stock but easy enough to sort & more power too.

Edited by iguana on Saturday 31st August 21:26

I toy with the idea of an mx5 from time to time, but feels like a car I'd rather have a go in than own, mk3s seem to get some pretty decent tin worm as well.

E36s are nice as well, but also getting on a bit, never been that keen on the shape of the 130 though, had a look just now but will keep an eye

Take a look on z4 forum , it’s a good source of info , much better than me !

[andrewcliffe]

If you have a garage to keep it in, how about a Westfield or similar Lotus 7 style of car. Easy to work on. Good power to weight ratio etc.,

[brillomaster]

Had and tracked a lot of these...bmw 328i, 330ci, z4 3litre, boxster 986 and now in a boxster 987.

Personally, the bmw 3litre straight six is a peach. I'd either go z4 or a 130i for up to 5k.

An e85 z4 feels a very compact car, and shares so much with an e46 that parts are very cheap. Brakes and tyres is all I did to make a very competent, fun car. Happily worried far more expensive porsche gt cars round spa when it was a little damp, though obviously didn't quite have the legs in a straight line...

I'd buy the cheapest z4 3.0i you could, spend the savings on track tyres and decent brakes, and see how you get on for a year. Then you'll know if you want to go faster or get a lighter car, but a z4 is a great all rounder.

Edited by brillomaster on Sunday 1st September 20:11

[brillomaster]

Also, I'd also say don't get an mx5 or an mr2. They were good ten years ago, but they're too slow these days, the trackday scene has moved on to turbocharged cars... audi rs cars, golf r, bmw m3, fast focus st, etc. 2 litre naturally aspirated is just too slow these days, you'll be moving over constantly on the straights.

The exception to this is a fully stripped out clio on slicks, but fwd isn't for me.

Just my opinion, but either 2 litre turbo or 3 litre naturally aspirated is the minimum performance needed these days.

[Derek182]

brillomaster said:

Also, I'd also say don't get an mx5 or an mr2. They were good ten years ago, but they're too slow these days, the trackday scene has moved on to turbocharged cars... audi rs cars, golf r, bmw m3, fast focus st, etc. 2 litre naturally aspirated is just too slow these days, you'll be moving over constantly on the straights.

The exception to this is a fully stripped out clio on slicks, but fwd isn't for me.

Just my opinion, but either 2 litre turbo or 3 litre naturally aspirated is the minimum performance needed these days.

Agree with this, 15 years ago I tracked a Clio 172 with minimal mods and usually did more overtaking than being overtaken, 5 years ago I was out in a similar spec Clio 200 and spent several unenjoyable trackdays being one of the slowest cars there. More recently a mapped Megane RS250 put me back among the quicker cars.

[Rotary Potato]

Any particular reason why a Porsche Boxster didn't make the list?

Or a Mazda RX8?

I've driven both on track and found them to be more competent than I was!

And I bought both for less than your £6k maximum budget! (granted, this was a few years ago now - not sure if either has started appreciating yet)

[Cambs_Stuart]

Derek182 said:

brillomaster said:

Also, I'd also say don't get an mx5 or an mr2. They were good ten years ago, but they're too slow these days, the trackday scene has moved on to turbocharged cars... audi rs cars, golf r, bmw m3, fast focus st, etc. 2 litre naturally aspirated is just too slow these days, you'll be moving over constantly on the straights.

The exception to this is a fully stripped out clio on slicks, but fwd isn't for me.

Just my opinion, but either 2 litre turbo or 3 litre naturally aspirated is the minimum performance needed these days.

Agree with this, 15 years ago I tracked a Clio 172 with minimal mods and usually did more overtaking than being overtaken, 5 years ago I was out in a similar spec Clio 200 and spent several unenjoyable trackdays being one of the slowest cars there. More recently a mapped Megane RS250 put me back among the quicker cars.

I agree, in the last 3-4 years the power to weight ratio of trackday cars has gone though the roof. On the rare occasions I get my 172 out for a track day i'm generally the slowest thing around.

[Jt23]

Rotary Potato said:

Any particular reason why a Porsche Boxster didn't make the list?

Or a Mazda RX8?

I've driven both on track and found them to be more competent than I was!

And I bought both for less than your £6k maximum budget! (granted, this was a few years ago now - not sure if either has started appreciating yet)

Maintenance costs mainly, RX8 engines are pretty needy and rebuild prone, Porsche parts cost + IMS bearing issues/bore score put me off - I had flirted with the idea of a Cayman S as well if i decided to push my budget (the money is there i just shouldn't spend it all lol) but in the end I can't settle comfortably on them being affordable to keep alive.

brillomaster said:

Also, I'd also say don't get an mx5 or an mr2. They were good ten years ago, but they're too slow these days, the trackday scene has moved on to turbocharged cars... audi rs cars, golf r, bmw m3, fast focus st, etc. 2 litre naturally aspirated is just too slow these days, you'll be moving over constantly on the straights.

The exception to this is a fully stripped out clio on slicks, but fwd isn't for me.

Just my opinion, but either 2 litre turbo or 3 litre naturally aspirated is the minimum performance needed these days.

Yeah this was a gut feeling of mine also thanks for confirming, power just isn't enough and the MK2 MR2 seems to be running shorter on modern swap options these days - it's also more money and time than i want to put it and seems harder to work on being mid engined. I'm also not super keen on FWD or hatches, I've had them before and would rather shift to a meatier rwd.

brillomaster said:

Had and tracked a lot of these...bmw 328i, 330ci, z4 3litre, boxster 986 and now in a boxster 987.

Personally, the bmw 3litre straight six is a peach. I'd either go z4 or a 130i for up to 5k.

An e85 z4 feels a very compact car, and shares so much with an e46 that parts are very cheap. Brakes and tyres is all I did to make a very competent, fun car. Happily worried far more expensive porsche gt cars round spa when it was a little damp, though obviously didn't quite have the legs in a straight line...

I'd buy the cheapest z4 3.0i you could, spend the savings on track tyres and decent brakes, and see how you get on for a year. Then you'll know if you want to go faster or get a lighter car, but a z4 is a great all rounder.

Edited by brillomaster on Sunday 1st September 20:11

Cheers this is decent advice, reading here and around the forums it does seem to be a well perceived option, and this is definitely the sensible way to do it. I like the Z4, although i think it looks so much better in coupe form as well as obviously being a bit safer. Prices on those are usually 2-3x a roadster but you do sometimes spot a cheaper one, seen one recently near me which is £6.6k at 108k miles and is an '08 3.0si, looks in decent condition, MOT is about to run out but seller says they'll put one on - MOT history is also pretty clean. Part of me wants to bite but still weighing up my options..

[Bertrum]

brillomaster said:

Also, I'd also say don't get an mx5 or an mr2. They were good ten years ago, but they're too slow these days, the trackday scene has moved on to turbocharged cars... audi rs cars, golf r, bmw m3, fast focus st, etc. 2 litre naturally aspirated is just too slow these days, you'll be moving over constantly on the straights.

The exception to this is a fully stripped out clio on slicks, but fwd isn't for me.

Just my opinion, but either 2 litre turbo or 3 litre naturally aspirated is the minimum performance needed these days.

Not if you can drive, spent the day at Oulton last week in a 170hp MX5 and was stuck behind a couple of ego troubled people in Mustang and Porsche only car that overtook me all day was a GT3 McLaren. So this is balls and I wasn’t doing particularly spectacular lap times as the car was rented.

For £5k I’d be looking at a Clio 200 cup (great to learn in),an MX5 NC with uprated pads and suspension. Or buy a Compact Cup Race Car, they are about that money and a proper race car look on the 750 motor club classifieds

[CABC]

Bertrum said:

Not if you can drive, spent the day at Oulton last week in a 170hp MX5 and was stuck behind a couple of ego troubled people in Mustang and Porsche only car that overtook me all day was a GT3 McLaren. So this is balls and I wasn’t doing particularly spectacular lap times as the car was rented.

For £5k I’d be looking at a Clio 200 cup (great to learn in),an MX5 NC with uprated pads and suspension. Or buy a Compact Cup Race Car, they are about that money and a proper race car look on the 750 motor club classifieds

Lot of truth in the statement that power makes you lazy. Yes, average track car now has way more power than 10years ago, but the lack of cornering ability is then highlighted.

[Rowe]

You lot must be going on some odd trackdays. Turbo cars.... there's generally an odd spattering unless you're going to one of these VAG days which some of the owners keep organising - of course they're going to be popular on those days.
Typical days are generally populated by Clios, Fiestas, and Civics, rich lads in their E92 M3's, and the semi retired gents in Caterfields.

A 2 litre, circa 150-200bhp is more than ample on track. You'll not be the fastest there, but you certainly won't be the slowest if you can commit to some corner speed.

Commitment generally seems to be the fastest way around on most trackdays I've been to, regardless of what car you're in.

[Rotary Potato]

Jt23 said:

Rotary Potato said:

Any particular reason why a Porsche Boxster didn't make the list?

Or a Mazda RX8?

I've driven both on track and found them to be more competent than I was!

And I bought both for less than your £6k maximum budget! (granted, this was a few years ago now - not sure if either has started appreciating yet)

Maintenance costs mainly, RX8 engines are pretty needy and rebuild prone, Porsche parts cost + IMS bearing issues/bore score put me off - I had flirted with the idea of a Cayman S as well if i decided to push my budget (the money is there i just shouldn't spend it all lol) but in the end I can't settle comfortably on them being affordable to keep alive.

...

That's fair enough. Funnily enough, RX8s tend to do better on track than in day-to-day life. But I can understand the worry. I ended up having to rebuild my 2nd RX8's engine ... the bill was not small and the workmanship was shocking, I had problem after problem with the company that did the work. It would put me off getting another one.

As for the Porsche. I took the view that if it hasn't gone bang by now, it's unlikely to go bang shortly. It was my daily driver and occasional trackday car for nearly 5 years and was one of the most reliable cars I'd ever owned - despite having no history to say that either the IMS or RMS had been addressed. You also get a lot of people conflating different issues across different generations of Boxster/911, for example the 986 Boxster doesn't really suffer from bore score (not to any appreciable degree more than any other old performance engine does), whereas the 987 generation (such as a cheap Cayman S) absolutely can. However the Cayman S is highly unlikely to have problems with IMS, whereas that does apply to the 986 (although the scare stories would have you believe that every engine was a hand grenade waiting to go off - in reality something like 85-95% of the engines leaving the factory were fine, and the majority of the rest have either had preventative maintenance to rectify or gone pop by now). All that conflated noise means that people who haven't looked into it closely just hear lots of bad stuff and decide to steer clear.

I didn't find Porsche to be any more or less expensive for parts that any other marque I've owned (inc. Mazda and BMW). Some parts were surprisingly expensive ... some were surprisingly cheap. Nothing I bought felt eye watering.

I only sold the Porsche because I needed something with back seats, and wouldn't hesitate to get another one if my circumstances changed again.

But at the end of the day, it's your peace of mind, and some random bloke on the internet telling you his cheap old Porsche didn't explode or cost an arm & a leg to run is unlikely to change the opinions you've already reached. Good luck with your search and I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.

[braddo]

Please excuse the bluntness but...

Jt23 said:

E46 330ci - absolutely ste out of the box for a track car. Far too heavy so needs to be stripped and then brakes and suspension uprated (not cheap). Maybe OK if your hobby is building a car and not driving it.

E92 335i - absolutely ste out of the box for a track car. Far too heavy so needs to be stripped and then brakes and suspension uprated (not cheap). Maybe OK if your hobby is building a car and not driving it.

Mk2 mr2 - I'd be amazed if you find a decent one in budget

Blobeye impreza - Imprezas and Evos have shockingly high consumables costs - tyres, brakes, fuel - and aren't actually very quick on track for the amount of power they have and for the amount they cost to run.

Z4 3.0si - this is most suitable option of your shortlist

... I just want fun, fast, and rwd...

A 986 2.7 Boxster will be faster around a circuit and more fun to drive - pretty much out of the box - than any of your options.

Ditto a RX-8.

MX5 and Caterham at the top of the tree for fun as well as for lowest cost

[ribiero]

Agree with "trackdays got faster" thing, seems ~200bhp/tonne to be in the flow depending on what circuit you're at..
You'll still have track spec M3's up your chuff and you'll still be anchoring on coming upto a road going porsche tip toeing around but if you can exist among the middle then you'll have better days.

[rex]

I’ve just come back from a trackday driving 3 different cars in a day and have driven many track cars fast and slow in the past 15 years.

Today was in a MX5 NA 1.6 with decent suspension and tyres, a BMW 116 Trophy race car and a 560 bhp highly modified M2 Competition.

Previously driven highly modified S1 Exige, track prepared e36 M3, Lotus Elise supercharged and a few others.

Today in the wet the MX5 was the most fun. Yes it’s slow but most cars get past you so quickly you don’t need to lift to let cars past. Yes would be better with a turbo in the dry but is great fun in the wet.

The 130i BMW is a good call with an uprated suspension and is a lovely engine.

A friend had a Cayman but consumables were quite costly.

Mk 2 MR2. Had a Rev 1 Turbo. Great road car but woeful track car. Brakes not strong enough and very difficult to drive at the limit. Can spit you off the track very easily.

My choice for your budget would be a well sorted MX5 turbo.

I’ve been on here for many years and I know the answer is always “an MX5” but it sometimes it really is. I wish I had bought one years ago.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Jt23 said:

I don't want an mx5, just to rule that out. I know they're a solid first rwd, great to learn in and cheap, but just not my thing.

I've read through the thread and it seems your concerns are weight and maintenance cost. MX-5 has neither of these issues.

I would either change your priorities or find a compromise.

I am biased, I own 2 MX-5 and find it difficult to understand how they can't be someones thing considering it has every single thing you need except power, which can be fixed. Unless you're one of those that think the car is too feminine.