Track tyres for beginner
Discussion
Recently I have picked up a Subaru Impreza wagon that will be purely a weekend/track car. What track tyres would you recommend? My plan is to drive to track with a spare set of alloys in the boot and change wheels over when I arrive at track. I am a complete novice when it comes to track days, so would it be a good idea to go full track tyres or find a happy medium?
Looking forward to any advice I can get.
Looking forward to any advice I can get.
I recently bought a set of Acellera 651 Sport Xtra tyres. Only used them on the road at the moment and they seem fine, will be on track in August so we’ll see. They are about half the price of a set of. Toyo R888’s so I’m not expecting top performance. These may be worth a punt if you need to buy tyres, check out the prices for your sizes. Oh, and make sure that they are the, “Xtra”.
If you join the Subaru forums people are always selling wheels, you'll probably see a set of wheels with part worn track tyres on fairly soon. Subaru also take a fairly common 5 x 100 size so there will be some out there.
And, just as an aside, don't skimp on the cooling if you're taking it on track, especially for the cylinder closest to the turbo! I've also cooked WRX brakes on the road, so get some good pads and fluid.
And, just as an aside, don't skimp on the cooling if you're taking it on track, especially for the cylinder closest to the turbo! I've also cooked WRX brakes on the road, so get some good pads and fluid.
this is a very good point actually... you might want to do your first few trackdays on cheap rubber so the car isn't building up high lateral g forces... then, if the engine and gearbox survive the first few trackdays without grenading themselves, then maybe look to get some good rubber on. but as said - focus on oil and water cooling, use decent motorsport oil, baffled sump, extra oil coolers, bigger radiators etc...
i remember donut did a hi/low series where they converted subarus to be track cars... if i remember correctly, on the 2 cars they had, they went through 4 engines and 2 gearboxes...
i remember donut did a hi/low series where they converted subarus to be track cars... if i remember correctly, on the 2 cars they had, they went through 4 engines and 2 gearboxes...
Mustoe91 said:
My plan is to drive to track with a spare set of alloys in the boot and change wheels over when I arrive at track.
What arrangements are made at circuits for storage of road wheels while you're out on track? It would be unfortunate to "lose" a set of decent wheels/tyres and I doubt you'll want them in the car on track.I have never heard of anything stolen at a track day. Everyone there are like-minded fellows who are there to have fun and not the scrotes that nick things. Saying that, there is always a meniscal chance.
Have a word with someone who has a garage and ask if you can put your wheels in the corner.
People do that all the time, it is expected and accepted.
Have a word with someone who has a garage and ask if you can put your wheels in the corner.
People do that all the time, it is expected and accepted.
brillomaster said:
this is a very good point actually... you might want to do your first few trackdays on cheap rubber so the car isn't building up high lateral g forces... then, if the engine and gearbox survive the first few trackdays without grenading themselves, then maybe look to get some good rubber on. but as said - focus on oil and water cooling, use decent motorsport oil, baffled sump, extra oil coolers, bigger radiators etc...
i remember donut did a hi/low series where they converted Subarus to be track cars... if i remember correctly, on the 2 cars they had, they went through 4 engines and 2 gearboxes...
I’ve been around Subarus for the last 10years so know how fragile the engine/gearbox can be. I’ve already bought a group N baffled sump to stop oil starvation when corning hard. Have a wide range of parts to fit such as uprated brakes coilovers and some whiteline parts. i remember donut did a hi/low series where they converted Subarus to be track cars... if i remember correctly, on the 2 cars they had, they went through 4 engines and 2 gearboxes...
After reading some of your comments I think I will just go for some decent road tyres maybe something like a Bridgestone potenza or maybe some michelin pilot sport 4. Think being a novice on track I won’t really look at track tyres until I’ve done a fair few track days.
Cambs_Stuart said:
If you join the Subaru forums people are always selling wheels, you'll probably see a set of wheels with part worn track tyres on fairly soon. Subaru also take a fairly common 5 x 100 size so there will be some out there.
And, just as an aside, don't skimp on the cooling if you're taking it on track, especially for the cylinder closest to the turbo! I've also cooked WRX brakes on the road, so get some good pads and fluid.
The WRX brakes won’t be an issue as I’ve already purchased a set of 6pot AP brakes and a set of rear brembos off an STI. The cooling side I know is an issue, but I will be doing the cylinder 4 cooling mod as that’s the cylinder that seems to struggle. And, just as an aside, don't skimp on the cooling if you're taking it on track, especially for the cylinder closest to the turbo! I've also cooked WRX brakes on the road, so get some good pads and fluid.
Mustoe91 said:
After reading some of your comments I think I will just go for some decent road tyres maybe something like a Bridgestone potenza or maybe some michelin pilot sport 4. Think being a novice on track I won’t really look at track tyres until I’ve done a fair few track days.
Don't use new tyres as the first few mm will scrub off VERY quickly on track.So much so that when I was using road tyres in the early days on track I used to get 2 track days out of 4mm tyres & the same 2 track days out of new tyres.
i recently went back to good road tyres (bridgestones and michelin pilot sports) after previously running mid range track tyres, and... the road tyres actually really impressed me with their grip and longevity to a 15 minute session. so much so, that i seriously considered not bothering with track tyres at all, since i'm not chasing tenths when on track.
if you're just starting out, some good road tyres will be fine. and if the weather turns bad (obviously a frequent occurence in the UK) you'll have far more confidence as a newbie on road tyres with some wet weather performance.
if you're just starting out, some good road tyres will be fine. and if the weather turns bad (obviously a frequent occurence in the UK) you'll have far more confidence as a newbie on road tyres with some wet weather performance.
E-bmw said:
My best advice to you would be to stick with good quality part worn tyres with around 4/5mm of tread.
Basically, with your car you aren't going to be nudging Lewis Hamilton, so just stick with tyres that you can run off cheaply & enjoy for the moment.
Good advice, premium part worns ideally something with a stiff side wall not soft so ,Bridgestone, Good year etc but sports version or you can pick up sets of well worn semi slicks Ao48's or T888's with a bit of life for low cost, not good on wet tracks if well worn though.Basically, with your car you aren't going to be nudging Lewis Hamilton, so just stick with tyres that you can run off cheaply & enjoy for the moment.
rallycross said:
E-bmw said:
My best advice to you would be to stick with good quality part worn tyres with around 4/5mm of tread.
Basically, with your car you aren't going to be nudging Lewis Hamilton, so just stick with tyres that you can run off cheaply & enjoy for the moment.
Good advice, premium part worns ideally something with a stiff side wall not soft so ,Bridgestone, Good year etc but sports version or you can pick up sets of well worn semi slicks Ao48's or T888's with a bit of life for low cost, not good on wet tracks if well worn though.Basically, with your car you aren't going to be nudging Lewis Hamilton, so just stick with tyres that you can run off cheaply & enjoy for the moment.
I think that’s the point. They grip and don’t slide until that moment you push too far. Uto that point they are doing what they have been designed for. Never had a problem with these and in fact with my old front wheel drive track car. It was still pretty progressive when it let go. Different story with my Rear Wheel drive TVR, breakaway equals spin, Inevitably!
If you were gong out for a spirited road drive would you change tyres? Would you even consider tyres?
You are not going to be troubling limits on your first track experience.
If you are going to have to be buying " part worn" any tyres, just consider that you most likely already have these on your car. Just go and enjoy yourself and worry about the tyre consequences after.
You are not going to be troubling limits on your first track experience.
If you are going to have to be buying " part worn" any tyres, just consider that you most likely already have these on your car. Just go and enjoy yourself and worry about the tyre consequences after.
Drive on what you have, provided that the condition is fair. Keep an eye on the pressures, take advice and see how you get on.
When it's time to replace them I'd recommend 50/50 road/track tyres, NS2R, AD08, 651, RSR etc. Compared to all but the best road tyres they will take longer to overheat, grip better on the edge, deteriorate slower, and be more predictable. They will still understeer to some degree, but that's no bad thing when starting out.
Obvious trade offs are reduced (but still acceptable) wet weather performance, harsher ride, increased road noise and a higher price (depending on how much you spend on road tyres).
The likes of R888, AR1, DZ03G or all out slicks have far greater grip, but cost more and wear quicker. Buy these when you have experience under your belt and can really hammer the corners.
When it's time to replace them I'd recommend 50/50 road/track tyres, NS2R, AD08, 651, RSR etc. Compared to all but the best road tyres they will take longer to overheat, grip better on the edge, deteriorate slower, and be more predictable. They will still understeer to some degree, but that's no bad thing when starting out.
Obvious trade offs are reduced (but still acceptable) wet weather performance, harsher ride, increased road noise and a higher price (depending on how much you spend on road tyres).
The likes of R888, AR1, DZ03G or all out slicks have far greater grip, but cost more and wear quicker. Buy these when you have experience under your belt and can really hammer the corners.
As others have said, just use what is on your car. I really don't understand this perception that you have to go out and spend loads before you have even done your first track day. As you get quicker you will begin to find the weak spots (eg. brakes overheating) and can then upgrade/change accordingly.
Also, with tyres, more grip doesn't automatically equal more fun. If I'm racing (and the regs allow it) I will obviously want slicks but for fun (sliding the car around), lesser tyres are great. Road tyres are also more convenient if/when the weather changes.
Also, with tyres, more grip doesn't automatically equal more fun. If I'm racing (and the regs allow it) I will obviously want slicks but for fun (sliding the car around), lesser tyres are great. Road tyres are also more convenient if/when the weather changes.
LennyM1984 said:
As you get quicker you will begin to find the weak spots (eg. brakes overheating) and can then upgrade/change accordingly.
I'd agree that this is probably the first fun stopper on a trackday. Cooked fluid is no fun, but you can still have a blast flying around on shopping tyres. LennyM1984 said:
As others have said, just use what is on your car. I really don't understand this perception that you have to go out and spend loads before you have even done your first track day. As you get quicker you will begin to find the weak spots (eg. brakes overheating) and can then upgrade/change accordingly.
Also, with tyres, more grip doesn't automatically equal more fun. If I'm racing (and the regs allow it) I will obviously want slicks but for fun (sliding the car around), lesser tyres are great. Road tyres are also more convenient if/when the weather changes.
100%Also, with tyres, more grip doesn't automatically equal more fun. If I'm racing (and the regs allow it) I will obviously want slicks but for fun (sliding the car around), lesser tyres are great. Road tyres are also more convenient if/when the weather changes.
Decent road tyres will make you a much better track driver too.
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