Novice Track day or Regular track day?
Discussion
Well I need to start by saying this post is about track days and I’m looking for comments and advice from people about track days so please don’t move my post moderators! Every time I mention car brand my posts get moved to that forum which isn’t helpful
Anyway, I’m looking at booking some track days in but given nature/cost of my car I will be super cautious and won’t be pushing things too hard. It’s a British 2 seater with 720bhp. I’m looking at Snetterton as I figure it’s a relatively safe bet that by end of the both straights I should be pretty clear of most traffic, the ones I close on I’ll stay behind and watch their lines and be cautious. What I want to avoid is people trying to dart down the inside or out braking me so they can pass a M******n which I’m sure all the veterans will be able do easily anyway. I will be paying for track day tuition also.
So my question is, am I safer on a Novice day or a regular day? With a regular day I’m happy to slap 20 novice stickers all over the car as needed! I’m not proud! So I figure I’ll get a better class of driver here and hopefully learn a bit more and hopefully drivers safer and more respectful of a novice. I am however conscious that me being slower in corners could cause some frustration to experienced drivers and maybe even ruin their day out. With a novice day there are more rules and clearly states no passing in corners, and only passing on straights when car in front allows. So in theory a safer experience – BUT this also leaves the issue of novice drivers out braking themselves or coming off in corners which could cause a collision, I’d imagine less chance of this on a regular day
SO where am I most likely top be able drive home without any damage – Novice day or regular day?
Anyway, I’m looking at booking some track days in but given nature/cost of my car I will be super cautious and won’t be pushing things too hard. It’s a British 2 seater with 720bhp. I’m looking at Snetterton as I figure it’s a relatively safe bet that by end of the both straights I should be pretty clear of most traffic, the ones I close on I’ll stay behind and watch their lines and be cautious. What I want to avoid is people trying to dart down the inside or out braking me so they can pass a M******n which I’m sure all the veterans will be able do easily anyway. I will be paying for track day tuition also.
So my question is, am I safer on a Novice day or a regular day? With a regular day I’m happy to slap 20 novice stickers all over the car as needed! I’m not proud! So I figure I’ll get a better class of driver here and hopefully learn a bit more and hopefully drivers safer and more respectful of a novice. I am however conscious that me being slower in corners could cause some frustration to experienced drivers and maybe even ruin their day out. With a novice day there are more rules and clearly states no passing in corners, and only passing on straights when car in front allows. So in theory a safer experience – BUT this also leaves the issue of novice drivers out braking themselves or coming off in corners which could cause a collision, I’d imagine less chance of this on a regular day
SO where am I most likely top be able drive home without any damage – Novice day or regular day?
MMarkM said:
Anyway, I’m looking at booking some track days in but given nature/cost of my car I will be super cautious and won’t be pushing things too hard. It’s a British 2 seater with 720bhp. I’m looking at Snetterton as I figure it’s a relatively safe bet that by end of the both straights I should be pretty clear of most traffic, the ones I close on I’ll stay behind and watch their lines and be cautious. What I want to avoid is people trying to dart down the inside or out braking me so they can pass a M******n which I’m sure all the veterans will be able do easily anyway. I will be paying for track day tuition also.
Having not done Snet in the newer layout I can't really comment on your Snet specific comment, but would say that it is going to be true of anywhere. However you are missing one key point. If the cars you pass on the straights are then back on your bumper again on the bends, they are quicker than you over a full lap, so you are now putting yourself right in the way of someone trying to do a fats lap who is (frustratingly) faster than you over a lap & may be willing to take risks to pass.Had this exact scenario a few years ago at Cadwell. GT3 was pulling away from me on every straight & then holding me up on every bend....... It was really annoying...... All the gear, no idea kept springing to my mind.
MMarkM said:
So my question is, am I safer on a Novice day or a regular day? With a regular day I’m happy to slap 20 novice stickers all over the car as needed! I’m not proud! So I figure I’ll get a better class of driver here and hopefully learn a bit more and hopefully drivers safer and more respectful of a novice. I am however conscious that me being slower in corners could cause some frustration to experienced drivers and maybe even ruin their day out. With a novice day there are more rules and clearly states no passing in corners, and only passing on straights when car in front allows. So in theory a safer experience – BUT this also leaves the issue of novice drivers out braking themselves or coming off in corners which could cause a collision, I’d imagine less chance of this on a regular day
Unfortunately, every driver out there sees things differently/assesses their risks differently, so 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I have been on days with badly driven cars of all persuasions on both types of day.MMarkM said:
SO where am I most likely top be able drive home without any damage – Novice day or regular day?
Unfortunately, there is no definitive answer to this IMHO.I'd say the key thing is the tuition which you've booked. If you can, book them for as much of the day as possible. Also let them have a couple of laps in your car so they get the feel for it.
They'll help you not only with lines, braking points, etc. but are a guide to TD etiquette and second set of eyes.
Worth every penny IME.
Be wary of anything small and light BTW. The ability to late brake and corner speed is king on a race track. Two things which small light cars with decent power excell at... And which you'll monster on the straights.
They'll help you not only with lines, braking points, etc. but are a guide to TD etiquette and second set of eyes.
Worth every penny IME.
Be wary of anything small and light BTW. The ability to late brake and corner speed is king on a race track. Two things which small light cars with decent power excell at... And which you'll monster on the straights.
Goodwood. Very little traffic and easy to get past anyway.
It is of course a dangerous circuit if you lose it (hence limited track numbers), but drive within yourself and it’s very pleasant and safe.
You also need space to stretch your legs. But with 700hp you could end up being the problem/ mobile chicane.
It is of course a dangerous circuit if you lose it (hence limited track numbers), but drive within yourself and it’s very pleasant and safe.
You also need space to stretch your legs. But with 700hp you could end up being the problem/ mobile chicane.
My very first track day was a novice session at Snetterton. A chap turned up with a modified G wagon. Incredibly fast in a straight line (and made a fantastic noise) but everyone caught it up at every corner. The smoke from the brakes and tyres suggested the driver was trying hard. However, what he wasn't doing was letting anyone past, so ended up annoying everyone. Don't be that guy.
Get some tuition, be considerate, and if someone if behind you (unless you've just overtaken them or they've been dropped out of a helicopter) then they are faster and let them past.
Get some tuition, be considerate, and if someone if behind you (unless you've just overtaken them or they've been dropped out of a helicopter) then they are faster and let them past.
Track day rules specifically ban overtaking in corners and late braking into corners. It is NOT a race meeting.
In return, if your car is fast on the straights you need to watch your mirrors and allow cars, that are right up your chuff into corner, to pass immediately after the corners. Everyone hs a right to enjoy their track day, so it needs us all to work together.
Also, you must only overtake on the correct side, for example on the left at Snetterton. If someone wants you to come past they will indicate right.
I have overtaken a MacL at Castle Combe with less than half his power, because a) he let me b) his car was only two weeks old, so he was being careful and c) he was watching his mirrors. Good driving. I let him back past on the one occasion he was close enough to get past.
Equally, I have been held up for several laps by an absolute male hen in a BMW M4 at Snetterton, because he could outpace me on the straights, and refused to let anyone come past who had caught him at the corners. He also came out of the pits and carved straight across the main straight without looking, right in front of me as I was at 125 and entering the braking zone for the first corner. In the end I went through the pits to give myself some space. He got warned about his driving. I have to say that drivers like that are rare.
One misconception some people have, that a car like yours will be able to reach its top speed on the straights. I have only managed this on an airfield with a runway well over a mile long. Normal race circuits don't have long enough straights for top speed runs. My car is capable of around 150 mph flat out - best I have managed on the Bentley Straight at Snetterton was 135, and the next corner was taken in a full four wheel slide with an imminent underwear change requirement.
In return, if your car is fast on the straights you need to watch your mirrors and allow cars, that are right up your chuff into corner, to pass immediately after the corners. Everyone hs a right to enjoy their track day, so it needs us all to work together.
Also, you must only overtake on the correct side, for example on the left at Snetterton. If someone wants you to come past they will indicate right.
I have overtaken a MacL at Castle Combe with less than half his power, because a) he let me b) his car was only two weeks old, so he was being careful and c) he was watching his mirrors. Good driving. I let him back past on the one occasion he was close enough to get past.
Equally, I have been held up for several laps by an absolute male hen in a BMW M4 at Snetterton, because he could outpace me on the straights, and refused to let anyone come past who had caught him at the corners. He also came out of the pits and carved straight across the main straight without looking, right in front of me as I was at 125 and entering the braking zone for the first corner. In the end I went through the pits to give myself some space. He got warned about his driving. I have to say that drivers like that are rare.
One misconception some people have, that a car like yours will be able to reach its top speed on the straights. I have only managed this on an airfield with a runway well over a mile long. Normal race circuits don't have long enough straights for top speed runs. My car is capable of around 150 mph flat out - best I have managed on the Bentley Straight at Snetterton was 135, and the next corner was taken in a full four wheel slide with an imminent underwear change requirement.
Goodwood is a good call if you are worried about the behaviour/proximity of other drivers. Noise restrictions (and price I suspect too) means the track is never crowded and there is plenty of space to overtake or be overtaken and 3 (or more) good opportunities for concensual passing each lap.
I would suggest looking for a more expensive event with low number of cars. A day at Snett with most trackday organisers will see a mix of testosterone fueled lads in cheap Clios and club racers who don't want you to interup their lap times. I wouldn't want them near my precious supercar.
All trackdays are governed by rules to keep everyone safe, but despite that many trackdays have drivers like these.
Also, as others have said, no matter how fast your car is down the straight, there will be 'slower cars' who are lapping faster than you, so let them pass before the breaking zone so they don't get frustrated and do something stupid.
All trackdays are governed by rules to keep everyone safe, but despite that many trackdays have drivers like these.
Also, as others have said, no matter how fast your car is down the straight, there will be 'slower cars' who are lapping faster than you, so let them pass before the breaking zone so they don't get frustrated and do something stupid.
It’s not a race! And even with 700hp, you’ll still need to warm up your tyres and brakes etc on your out laps. So when you’ve just joined the circuit, be prepared to be passed by ‘lesser’ cars already up to speed. Track day etiquette dictates that you should lift off your throttle as required. If you do stay with them, then you can always blast passed once everything is up to temperature.
Most people find 15-20 min sessions are enough if you are concentrating 100%. The breaks in track time also allow your mechanicals some respite. Afternoons usually get a lot less busy, so if you can hold back your enthusiasm, you could end up with the track almost to yourself.
Also, on your in-laps you need to let things cool down a bit. Unless you have a team of mechanics with blowers?
Other cars might want to pass you then as well.
I was once sent straight into the paddock from full chat, due to a red flag on a charity airfield day, When I stopped, my brakes were literally on fire!
Not good in a plastic car with a full tank of optimax.
Regarding your choice of Novice or Regular track day: I suspect you'd find a novice only event too slow, especially on a tight circuit. So a regular event at Snetterton would be a good choice. It's a long, wide track with lots of runoff, so even if you do take corum backwards in the wet, you can still get away without damage.
Most people find 15-20 min sessions are enough if you are concentrating 100%. The breaks in track time also allow your mechanicals some respite. Afternoons usually get a lot less busy, so if you can hold back your enthusiasm, you could end up with the track almost to yourself.
Also, on your in-laps you need to let things cool down a bit. Unless you have a team of mechanics with blowers?
Other cars might want to pass you then as well.I was once sent straight into the paddock from full chat, due to a red flag on a charity airfield day, When I stopped, my brakes were literally on fire!
Not good in a plastic car with a full tank of optimax.Regarding your choice of Novice or Regular track day: I suspect you'd find a novice only event too slow, especially on a tight circuit. So a regular event at Snetterton would be a good choice. It's a long, wide track with lots of runoff, so even if you do take corum backwards in the wet, you can still get away without damage.
Edited by Wicker Man on Thursday 23 May 16:02
Some great feedback, thanks all. I've no intention of holding anyone up and no issue with anyone passing me or being quicker in corners than me. Actually I can probably learn more from being behind these people.
My real question is, from peoples experience, is a novice day safer than a regular day?
My real question is, from peoples experience, is a novice day safer than a regular day?
MMarkM said:
Some great feedback, thanks all. I've no intention of holding anyone up and no issue with anyone passing me or being quicker in corners than me. Actually I can probably learn more from being behind these people.
My real question is, from peoples experience, is a novice day safer than a regular day?
From my experience, a regular day is safer, novices don't always instinctively remember the rules when under pressure, and you can get very large speed differences. Speed itself is less dangerous than speed differentials.My real question is, from peoples experience, is a novice day safer than a regular day?
Also as said above, an expensive day at a track where they only let a small number on track at a time is safer than a cheap summer evening event where everyone is trying to pack in the maximum track time to the 2.5 to 3 hours available. Or a cheap day with a lot of participants.
Personally I would enjoy the cafe during rain storms - you may be on the best rain tyres and be a driving god, but there will be others who aren't either.
QBee said:
From my experience, a regular day is safer, novices don't always instinctively remember the rules when under pressure, and you can get very large speed differences. Speed itself is less dangerous than speed differentials.
Also as said above, an expensive day at a track where they only let a small number on track at a time is safer than a cheap summer evening event where everyone is trying to pack in the maximum track time to the 2.5 to 3 hours available. Or a cheap day with a lot of participants.
Personally I would enjoy the cafe during rain storms - you may be on the best rain tyres and be a driving god, but there will be others who aren't either.
Thanks, hell yeah if it rains I'll stay at home Also as said above, an expensive day at a track where they only let a small number on track at a time is safer than a cheap summer evening event where everyone is trying to pack in the maximum track time to the 2.5 to 3 hours available. Or a cheap day with a lot of participants.
Personally I would enjoy the cafe during rain storms - you may be on the best rain tyres and be a driving god, but there will be others who aren't either.
With a car such as yours, I don’t think I’d want to be doing a novice day. You’ll forever be catching people who won’t necessarily be watching their mirrors a lot.
Also, I think driving behaviour can often be more circuit dependent than anything. Donington for instance is known for having lots of red flags.
Snetterton is my local track and I’ve probably done more days there than every other circuit combined. I find the driving standards there to general be at the better end of the scale. In addition there multiple points to safely pass and let people past.
Also, I think driving behaviour can often be more circuit dependent than anything. Donington for instance is known for having lots of red flags.
Snetterton is my local track and I’ve probably done more days there than every other circuit combined. I find the driving standards there to general be at the better end of the scale. In addition there multiple points to safely pass and let people past.
MMarkM said:
Side note - I've had a look through google, can anyone point me in the direction of one the these track days with fewer people?
I’ve not booked with RMA, but probably who I would be looking at if I were in your position. https://www.rmatrackdays.com/track-days
MMarkM said:
Well I need to start by saying this post is about track days and I’m looking for comments and advice from people about track days so please don’t move my post moderators! Every time I mention car brand my posts get moved to that forum which isn’t helpful
Anyway, I’m looking at booking some track days in but given nature/cost of my car I will be super cautious and won’t be pushing things too hard. It’s a British 2 seater with 720bhp.
Must admit I scan read that as a British 2 seater with 72HP and went full geek mode an thought you must have a MG MGA....Anyway, I’m looking at booking some track days in but given nature/cost of my car I will be super cautious and won’t be pushing things too hard. It’s a British 2 seater with 720bhp.
Obviously I realise that at 7 HUNDRED an Twenty yes that is a completely different animal, clearly not made in the 1960s.
Best advice on any track day is to go at YOUR PACE, don't get sucked into trying to keep up with someone and when you have someone who seems keen to pass, let them go they will only distract you. Most of all have FUN!!
I think Snetterton is a reasonable choice, long straights, plenty of overtaking places and not much you can hit if you do go off.
Silverstone GP would be better though, a big wide track and a long enough lap that it doesn't seem to get crowded plus it's designed to stop modern Formula 1 cars if they go off so the chances of hitting anything in a road car are minimal.
Not convinced about Goodwood, it's very fast and has been kept in period style so no gravel traps, if you do go off it's liable to be a very big accident.
Don't think anyone has mentioned Bedford, surely the best place for exercising a supercar, no race meetings there so less racers out testing and designed to be very safe although if the McLaren is noisy you might have trouble with that.
I would do a regular day, more experienced drivers should be a good thing.
Goldtrack and RMA are higher end organisers so less likely to attract the lads in cheap cars although one of my worst track day experiences was at a Goldtrack day at Silverstone where a Carrera Cup team seemed to be testing with no regard for regular track day drivers or censure from the organisers who seemed to be their mates!
Silverstone GP would be better though, a big wide track and a long enough lap that it doesn't seem to get crowded plus it's designed to stop modern Formula 1 cars if they go off so the chances of hitting anything in a road car are minimal.
Not convinced about Goodwood, it's very fast and has been kept in period style so no gravel traps, if you do go off it's liable to be a very big accident.
Don't think anyone has mentioned Bedford, surely the best place for exercising a supercar, no race meetings there so less racers out testing and designed to be very safe although if the McLaren is noisy you might have trouble with that.
I would do a regular day, more experienced drivers should be a good thing.
Goldtrack and RMA are higher end organisers so less likely to attract the lads in cheap cars although one of my worst track day experiences was at a Goldtrack day at Silverstone where a Carrera Cup team seemed to be testing with no regard for regular track day drivers or censure from the organisers who seemed to be their mates!
Snett is great if people play ball. But I would be nervous taking a P&J there as a first TD. after the hairpin you're in to the tight infield for next 4/5 corners and susceptible to fast traffic whatever you're in. Also, after the Bentley straight different cars come together after their differing speeds down that straight and then may well corner quite differently and not in the same "ranking" as their top speed. I've not seen contact there but have witnessed some fruity moments.
Goodwood has so little traffic and just flows - there are no pinch points that affect most circuits, such as hairpins, complexes or (tight) chicanes. There was car on car contact at Thruxton a couple of weeks ago in the complex. egos couldn't wait for 3 corners. A Lotus got T-boned at Halls Bends at Cadwell many years ago as the shed following failed to brake for the tight right. Brands Indy is tight and leads to frustration, seen 2 contacts there. Someone was T-boned at Bedford at the hairpin. really tight corners leave you at the mercy of those following. That's not the case at Goodwood. It's my choice for the nice cars I take out just once to feel them on track, and I don't go 10/10 obvs.
there are 2 separate risks: 1) what trouble you can get yourself into; and 2) your vulnerability to others' mishaps.
Goodwood has so little traffic and just flows - there are no pinch points that affect most circuits, such as hairpins, complexes or (tight) chicanes. There was car on car contact at Thruxton a couple of weeks ago in the complex. egos couldn't wait for 3 corners. A Lotus got T-boned at Halls Bends at Cadwell many years ago as the shed following failed to brake for the tight right. Brands Indy is tight and leads to frustration, seen 2 contacts there. Someone was T-boned at Bedford at the hairpin. really tight corners leave you at the mercy of those following. That's not the case at Goodwood. It's my choice for the nice cars I take out just once to feel them on track, and I don't go 10/10 obvs.
there are 2 separate risks: 1) what trouble you can get yourself into; and 2) your vulnerability to others' mishaps.
Have you checked your noise level on your MCL?
If you are over the track limit you will not be allowed on track, and you won't get a refund either because you have stopped them selling the space to someone else.
You can either get a noise meter (there are some phone apps for this) or call the nearest track to you and ask them to check your car prior to booking.
They are usually happy to do so at a mutually convenient time (like on a track day when they are there anyway), as they are all enthusiasts and want to see you on track. Especially in a British supercar.
Every track has a noise limit, it's not exactly low, usually around 99-103 dB(a) static, but still a number of cars will fail.
Thruxton is particularly low at 90 dBa.
Some tracks like Donington use drive by limits instead, Bedford uses both because the downwind residents are heartily sick of the noise.
I used to find with my TVR that I was very close to the static limit of 101, but never failed the drive by at 87.5.
The static test is taken at 45 degrees, one metre up and out from the exhaust tail pipe, and at 3/4 max revs, which I imagine will be quite an interesting noise on your car.
If you are over the track limit you will not be allowed on track, and you won't get a refund either because you have stopped them selling the space to someone else.
You can either get a noise meter (there are some phone apps for this) or call the nearest track to you and ask them to check your car prior to booking.
They are usually happy to do so at a mutually convenient time (like on a track day when they are there anyway), as they are all enthusiasts and want to see you on track. Especially in a British supercar.
Every track has a noise limit, it's not exactly low, usually around 99-103 dB(a) static, but still a number of cars will fail.
Thruxton is particularly low at 90 dBa.
Some tracks like Donington use drive by limits instead, Bedford uses both because the downwind residents are heartily sick of the noise.
I used to find with my TVR that I was very close to the static limit of 101, but never failed the drive by at 87.5.
The static test is taken at 45 degrees, one metre up and out from the exhaust tail pipe, and at 3/4 max revs, which I imagine will be quite an interesting noise on your car.
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