Big Brake Kits

[F12DDE]

Hi All,

Not sure where to put this but going to put it in the track days section as I think it makes most sense. May also post in the Bimmer section to see what they say.

Looking at AP Racing big brake kits for BMW E92 M3 and getting confused between the calliper options. I'm looking at the Reyland Motorsport website for context. http://www.reyland.co.uk/e9x-front/

Obviously if I had unlimited budget (which I don't ) I'd be going for a set of CP9660 callipers (pro 500r's?) on the front with matching CP9449 callipers on the rear, however I have come to realise that this is quite expensive!! From what I'm aware, these are currently the the Dog's B******s when it comes to big brake kits for track days.

Question is, are the top end callipers such as these really worth it over, for example, a kit using CP9040 callipers on the front, with matching CP9202 kit for the rears. I'm by no means a driving god, so would a mere mortal such as myself notice a difference in the various different options? I'd imagine that the main difference between the different offerings is weight savings, as they are all 6-pot callipers on the front and 4-pots on the rear. I'd also be saving between £2-3k!!!

I'm not looking at setting lap records and just use track days as a bit of fun, however when flying towards a corner at 120mph+ I'd like to know I'd be able to stop! The brakes on these cars are a well known weak point!

There's many different posts on these cars and upgraded brakes but most of them seem to be centred around the North American markets.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very clued up on brake systems, so any advice/views would be appreciated! Happy to be educated!

Thanks in advance.

[LennyM1984]

What is the problem with the brakes? Overheating after a few laps?

[popeyewhite]

I have the rather expensive AP Racing four pot callipers on my car. I have completed a few trackdays. They are incredibly good brakes and basically the more pressure through your foot the quicker they stop. Very progressive. Pads are Ferodo something. Previous brakes were pretty good - EBC set up, but these APs are a different league. Braking distance has just about halved.
Hope that helps.

[SAS Tom]

popeyewhite said:

I have the rather expensive AP Racing four pot callipers on my car. I have completed a few trackdays. They are incredibly good brakes and basically the more pressure through your foot the quicker they stop. Very progressive. Pads are Ferodo something. Previous brakes were pretty good - EBC set up, but these APs are a different league. Braking distance has just about halved.
Hope that helps.

Did you have crap pads before? Can’t see how changing calipers would halve braking distance when the tyres are only capable of so much.

[popeyewhite]

SAS Tom said:

Did you have crap pads before?

Ferodo DS2500. AP kit cost about £x5 the EBC kit and performs at least twice as well.

[Vsix and Vtec]

I've noticed more improvement (unless I was overheating the brakes) from changing pad compound, uprating the brake fluid and fitting better tyres. My Type R responded really well to a full set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4, DOT 5.1 fluid, braided flexi pipes and a full set of EBC Yellow Stuff pads.

[MOTK]

popeyewhite said:

Braking distance has just about halved.

Eh?! Even the crapiest oem brakes will be able to lock the wheels which is the maximum retardation the car can achieve. A bbk won't stop you any quicker, but it will let you stop quickly over and over again.

As regards to the original question, I had CP 5575 calipers on my car for quite a few years and have also run 9660s for about 3 years now (I changed because the consumables for the 9660 setup were a lot cheaper (ex bttc stuff)). I wouldn't say I could feel much difference between the two tbh, the new calipers are a bit lighter, but if I were you I would be buying their slightly cheaper calipers and investing more in a decent pad like the rsl29 rather than using a ds2500 or something like that which will not last long on an e92.

[popeyewhite]

I went from Yellow Stuff to Ferodo.

[popeyewhite]

MOTK said:

Eh?! Even the crapiest oem brakes will be able to lock the wheels which is the maximum retardation the car can achieve. A bbk won't stop you any quicker, but it will let you stop quickly over and over again.

Really. In fact after a while when serious fade set in the EBCs took even longer.

[cbehagg242]

I run the pro5000r calipers on my E92 m3 with M4 rears. Personally i'd save your money on a rear BBK and put the extra towards the best front BBK you can buy, which imo is the 5000r's. Plenty of people run the standard rear calipers with uprated pads just fine

[MOTK]

yes really. It's called physics.
https://www.google.com/search?q=can+a+bbk+stop+a+c...

[F12DDE]

LennyM1984 said:

What is the problem with the brakes? Overheating after a few laps?

Mainly fade after a few laps. She's needs to go on a diet to be honest!

[F12DDE]

popeyewhite said:

I have the rather expensive AP Racing four pot callipers on my car. I have completed a few trackdays. They are incredibly good brakes and basically the more pressure through your foot the quicker they stop. Very progressive. Pads are Ferodo something. Previous brakes were pretty good - EBC set up, but these APs are a different league. Braking distance has just about halved.
Hope that helps.

Good to hear, thanks for the input

[F12DDE]

cbehagg242 said:

I run the pro5000r calipers on my E92 m3 with M4 rears. Personally i'd save your money on a rear BBK and put the extra towards the best front BBK you can buy, which imo is the 5000r's. Plenty of people run the standard rear calipers with uprated pads just fine

I read something saying that if you have a BBK on the font, if you don't have an equivalent on the rears it can really upset the braking performance? If this was the case, I assume you would be having issues, but doesn't seem like you are, which is good to hear!

[F12DDE]

MOTK said:

As regards to the original question, I had CP 5575 calipers on my car for quite a few years and have also run 9660s for about 3 years now (I changed because the consumables for the 9660 setup were a lot cheaper (ex bttc stuff)). I wouldn't say I could feel much difference between the two tbh, the new calipers are a bit lighter, but if I were you I would be buying their slightly cheaper calipers and investing more in a decent pad like the rsl29 rather than using a ds2500 or something like that which will not last long on an e92.

Thanks for your views on the different calipers, will take it on board. The pagid pads seem to be the go-to.

[popeyewhite]

MOTK said:

yes really. It's called physics.
https://www.google.com/search?q=can+a+bbk+stop+a+c...

Yawn, I said "just about halved". Well done knowing it's physics, you can go to big school now.

[popeyewhite]

F12DDE said:

I read something saying that if you have a BBK on the font, if you don't have an equivalent on the rears it can really upset the braking performance?

Not the case at all. Heavy braking will see most of the car's weight shift to the front..the rears mainly just supply a bit of stability.

[SAS Tom]

popeyewhite said:

MOTK said:

yes really. It's called physics.
https://www.google.com/search?q=can+a+bbk+stop+a+c...

Yawn, I said "just about halved". Well done knowing it's physics, you can go to big school now.

It didn’t though did it, not even close to halved.

[LennyM1984]

F12DDE said:

LennyM1984 said:

What is the problem with the brakes? Overheating after a few laps?

Mainly fade after a few laps. She's needs to go on a diet to be honest!

Before spending loads of money, I would try a better pad and a decent fluid (I use Millers 300 or whatever it is called in my race car and it's reasonable value). If you are still getting fade then you could maybe go for a big brake kit.

It may also be worth getting some pointers on your technique in case this is part of the issue. If you can improve the way you brake and how much you brake, you may find that a decent pad is all you need.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

LennyM1984 said:

Before spending loads of money, I would try a better pad and a decent fluid (I use Millers 300 or whatever it is called in my race car and it's reasonable value). If you are still getting fade then you could maybe go for a big brake kit.

It may also be worth getting some pointers on your technique in case this is part of the issue. If you can improve the way you brake and how much you brake, you may find that a decent pad is all you need.

Absolutely this... Braided lines, Race fluid (RBF660 or similar), and some good race pads (Performance friction, project mu, etc.) before you spend a few k.

Another factor is better (fade resistant) brakes can overheat your road tyres anyway so they really only work as a brake and tyre package.