Skid pan training worthwhile?

Skid pan training worthwhile?

Author
Discussion

jassihayre

Original Poster:

94 posts

192 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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Hi Folks

Has anyone tried any skid pan training and is it worthwhile in terms of car control?


Drumroll

3,983 posts

127 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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Skid pans have less relevance now with all production cars having to have ABS. I don't know any current competition driver who has used a skid pan to improve their driving (but there may be some who have) Would it help you on track days I don't know. You clearly feel it may or you wouldn't have aske the question.

GetCarter

29,630 posts

286 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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Skid pans have little to do with ABS. If you are going sideways, what your brakes may or may not do is utterly irrelevant.

Any (decent) driver courses will help you stop meeting the hedge. Skid pans will tell you how utterly useless you are when you are on ice.

Spend your money and learn as much as you can. IMHO of course.

( <<< Done lots of driving courses, and in 45 years driving in very fast cars have avoided every hedge). smile


Edited by GetCarter on Friday 31st March 16:31

ShinyPsyduck

216 posts

115 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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Depends on the course/ place you go. The other half went on a skidpan experience day at Knockhill The cars were falling apart and she didn't learn very much from the day. There was 1 rwd car, a clapped out Lexus is200 with a dogedy drivetrain. It would judder when trying to accelerate. The instructor took her out at the end but the car wasn't having it. I stood at the sidelines bored/embarrassed.

If you could take your own car and at your own pace I would be up for a go.

Gord1

21 posts

95 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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I went on one at Donnington as part of our company training, there were only 3 of us and we had a lot of spare time.
I spent a couple of hours on the skid pan with the instructor, it was the type where they can raise each wheel independently to create any situation. Its well worth it, the benefit of it being the electronically raised type is that everything happens way slower than real life, you have loads of time to react and control the slide, its like being in slow motion.
I use a 300bhp kit car on the track, it doesn't have any driver aids, the skid pan and a few drift days have really helped my track driving. If I do find myself in a skid now, its all very calm and I can concentrate on controlling it.

braddo

11,252 posts

195 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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I think if you can use your own car they could be a useful way of practising (very) low speed oversteer and so you can learn how the car behaves when heading towards a spin, plus what you can do to counter it.

For a RWD car it can also be a way to learn better throttle control, i.e. to be able to balance a car doing a donut with just the throttle.

drakart

1,738 posts

217 months

Friday 31st March 2023
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Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!

1781cc

591 posts

101 months

Saturday 1st April 2023
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I did one at Rockingham when it was an active track, using my own car, the instructor couldn't get his head around how well it was setup and struggled to get the car to misbehave on the wet surface area, the whole experience wasn't particularly useful if I am honest.

Om

1,922 posts

85 months

Saturday 1st April 2023
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I would say yes. I have done car control/ skidpan training a few times over the years. Most fun in single and double deck buses, but probably most usefully in your own car...

The experience of finding your car not doing what you expect of it whether it is sliding, rotating or not stopping in the manner you anticipate is invaluable. Learning how to do something about it even more so.

Having ABS is little use if the pulsing/vibrating pedal makes you freeze rather than steer around the obstacle you are approaching.

Kawasicki

13,470 posts

242 months

Saturday 1st April 2023
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I‘ve trained and given training on skid pans, for 25 years.

They are an excellent tool to help understand fundamentals like weight transfer effects and good steering techniques, all without huge risk/wear/loads.

Training is great. Just do it. Invest money in yourself. Enjoy learning.

CoreyDog

766 posts

97 months

Saturday 1st April 2023
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Did one at RAF Scampton a few years ago, had fun. Made me realise that I’d grown too used to an automatic though as when performing emergency stops on simulated ice, I kept forgetting to dip the clutch.

Overall found it useful though and would definitely do one again.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,681 posts

230 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
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drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really.

When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.

The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.

to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.

Hammersia

1,564 posts

22 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
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Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really.

When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.

The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.

to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.
I dunno, I did that Phil Price rally school thing with the 2WD Imprezas on a wet day and we were all very sideways at what were clearly very low speeds, no more than 30mph.

drakart

1,738 posts

217 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
Hammersia said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really.

When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.

The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.

to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.
I dunno, I did that Phil Price rally school thing with the 2WD Imprezas on a wet day and we were all very sideways at what were clearly very low speeds, no more than 30mph.
I've instructed for years and never failed to get anyone sideways. I've taught from 9-90 and got both ends of the spectrum linking up corners perfectly. I'd say its the perfect way to learn car control.

BobToc

1,866 posts

124 months

Wednesday 5th April 2023
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I’m not sure how useful it is, but it was good fun.

944 Man

1,814 posts

139 months

Friday 7th April 2023
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Om said:
I would say yes. I have done car control/ skidpan training a few times over the years. Most fun in single and double deck buses, but probably most usefully in your own car...
This is probably because the longer the wheelbase, and the more stable the platform, the slower it develops and the easier to hold and control it is.

I wish that I could catch my MX-5 as surely as I can a 26t six wheel truck.

CABC

5,795 posts

108 months

Friday 7th April 2023
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my view is that all the various bits of training come together over time and experience. no one course will transform you, and even a good course will need practice afterwards to encourage muscle memory. one example is 'keep your foot in', really difficult if it's your first unexpected slide at 80mph. skid pan throttle control won't help there as it's quite a different experience, but over time and multiple training events you get better.

Drift Limits might be worth looking at. they're good value and you get decent seat time in an MX5 and 370Z. the organisation is a little lacking and the venue looks derelict, but once in the car they give you a good drive. Caterham Drift courses were also good before they were canned a few years ago (relaunching soon but I suspect it'll be more £ for less seat time. the old format was sponsored). Andy Walsh at North Weald was great at car control (ex-Benetton) though I found it most useful when also doing other courses. I guess it's what works for you and that not all those who can drive can teach. I liked the concept of mixing rally, skid, drift and track to build up and feel control. There's heap of specialists on track-only too of course.

RB Will

9,934 posts

247 months

Tuesday 11th April 2023
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For those saying they would do it if you can take your own car. You can do this at Thruxton.
There is instructor supervision and training if required otherwise just crack on and slide about. I had a good time figuring out the way the rear diff worked on my pickup

Digga

41,312 posts

290 months

Wednesday 12th April 2023
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FWIW for Porsche drivers, you can also take use your own car on certain courses at the PEC Silverstone. I used mine on the 20 years of GT3 event there and on the ice hill and low friction circuits, found it really gave me better insight into both the way the car breaks traction and also corrects. You are never getting that on either road or track in the same, instantly repeatable way.

Just check your insurance covers this use.

bigothunter

12,199 posts

67 months

Thursday 13th April 2023
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944 Man said:
This is probably because the longer the wheelbase, and the more stable the platform, the slower it develops and the easier to hold and control it is.

I wish that I could catch my MX-5 as surely as I can a 26t six wheel truck.
I've driven many MX5s on race circuits and never spun one yet. They are very easy to catch.

Also I've had a 16 tonne 4-wheel LWB rigid sideways in snow at around 40mph. Managed to catch it but response took ages and the truck ran very wide of the bend. Fortunately that was on a proving ground with generous tarmacked runoff areas. On the road, I would have been up the bank and through the hedge (or worse).

You stick to trucks - I'll take the MX5 biggrin