Skid pan training worthwhile?
Discussion
Skid pans have less relevance now with all production cars having to have ABS. I don't know any current competition driver who has used a skid pan to improve their driving (but there may be some who have) Would it help you on track days I don't know. You clearly feel it may or you wouldn't have aske the question.
Skid pans have little to do with ABS. If you are going sideways, what your brakes may or may not do is utterly irrelevant.
Any (decent) driver courses will help you stop meeting the hedge. Skid pans will tell you how utterly useless you are when you are on ice.
Spend your money and learn as much as you can. IMHO of course.
( <<< Done lots of driving courses, and in 45 years driving in very fast cars have avoided every hedge).
Any (decent) driver courses will help you stop meeting the hedge. Skid pans will tell you how utterly useless you are when you are on ice.
Spend your money and learn as much as you can. IMHO of course.
( <<< Done lots of driving courses, and in 45 years driving in very fast cars have avoided every hedge).
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 31st March 16:31
Depends on the course/ place you go. The other half went on a skidpan experience day at Knockhill The cars were falling apart and she didn't learn very much from the day. There was 1 rwd car, a clapped out Lexus is200 with a dogedy drivetrain. It would judder when trying to accelerate. The instructor took her out at the end but the car wasn't having it. I stood at the sidelines bored/embarrassed.
If you could take your own car and at your own pace I would be up for a go.
If you could take your own car and at your own pace I would be up for a go.
I went on one at Donnington as part of our company training, there were only 3 of us and we had a lot of spare time.
I spent a couple of hours on the skid pan with the instructor, it was the type where they can raise each wheel independently to create any situation. Its well worth it, the benefit of it being the electronically raised type is that everything happens way slower than real life, you have loads of time to react and control the slide, its like being in slow motion.
I use a 300bhp kit car on the track, it doesn't have any driver aids, the skid pan and a few drift days have really helped my track driving. If I do find myself in a skid now, its all very calm and I can concentrate on controlling it.
I spent a couple of hours on the skid pan with the instructor, it was the type where they can raise each wheel independently to create any situation. Its well worth it, the benefit of it being the electronically raised type is that everything happens way slower than real life, you have loads of time to react and control the slide, its like being in slow motion.
I use a 300bhp kit car on the track, it doesn't have any driver aids, the skid pan and a few drift days have really helped my track driving. If I do find myself in a skid now, its all very calm and I can concentrate on controlling it.
I think if you can use your own car they could be a useful way of practising (very) low speed oversteer and so you can learn how the car behaves when heading towards a spin, plus what you can do to counter it.
For a RWD car it can also be a way to learn better throttle control, i.e. to be able to balance a car doing a donut with just the throttle.
For a RWD car it can also be a way to learn better throttle control, i.e. to be able to balance a car doing a donut with just the throttle.
I would say yes. I have done car control/ skidpan training a few times over the years. Most fun in single and double deck buses, but probably most usefully in your own car...
The experience of finding your car not doing what you expect of it whether it is sliding, rotating or not stopping in the manner you anticipate is invaluable. Learning how to do something about it even more so.
Having ABS is little use if the pulsing/vibrating pedal makes you freeze rather than steer around the obstacle you are approaching.
The experience of finding your car not doing what you expect of it whether it is sliding, rotating or not stopping in the manner you anticipate is invaluable. Learning how to do something about it even more so.
Having ABS is little use if the pulsing/vibrating pedal makes you freeze rather than steer around the obstacle you are approaching.
drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really. When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.
The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.
to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really. When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.
The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.
to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.
Hammersia said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
drakart said:
Book a day at the Bill Gwynne Rally School in an Escort and you'll learn loads about car control!
not really. When I instructed at the LRS, the vast majority of the 'punters' drove the Escort on the stage at 25-30 mph. The sheer unfamiliarity of driving a very agricultural car, on a loose surface with almost no sound deadening made people think they were going a lot faster than they were.
The only time they did a 'skid' was when the were asked to pull 'the wand of plenty' around the slower corners.
to the OP, I sent my daughter just after her driving test on a skid control course, she learned loads and enjoyed it. It was at Thruxton.
Om said:
I would say yes. I have done car control/ skidpan training a few times over the years. Most fun in single and double deck buses, but probably most usefully in your own car...
This is probably because the longer the wheelbase, and the more stable the platform, the slower it develops and the easier to hold and control it is.I wish that I could catch my MX-5 as surely as I can a 26t six wheel truck.
my view is that all the various bits of training come together over time and experience. no one course will transform you, and even a good course will need practice afterwards to encourage muscle memory. one example is 'keep your foot in', really difficult if it's your first unexpected slide at 80mph. skid pan throttle control won't help there as it's quite a different experience, but over time and multiple training events you get better.
Drift Limits might be worth looking at. they're good value and you get decent seat time in an MX5 and 370Z. the organisation is a little lacking and the venue looks derelict, but once in the car they give you a good drive. Caterham Drift courses were also good before they were canned a few years ago (relaunching soon but I suspect it'll be more £ for less seat time. the old format was sponsored). Andy Walsh at North Weald was great at car control (ex-Benetton) though I found it most useful when also doing other courses. I guess it's what works for you and that not all those who can drive can teach. I liked the concept of mixing rally, skid, drift and track to build up and feel control. There's heap of specialists on track-only too of course.
Drift Limits might be worth looking at. they're good value and you get decent seat time in an MX5 and 370Z. the organisation is a little lacking and the venue looks derelict, but once in the car they give you a good drive. Caterham Drift courses were also good before they were canned a few years ago (relaunching soon but I suspect it'll be more £ for less seat time. the old format was sponsored). Andy Walsh at North Weald was great at car control (ex-Benetton) though I found it most useful when also doing other courses. I guess it's what works for you and that not all those who can drive can teach. I liked the concept of mixing rally, skid, drift and track to build up and feel control. There's heap of specialists on track-only too of course.
FWIW for Porsche drivers, you can also take use your own car on certain courses at the PEC Silverstone. I used mine on the 20 years of GT3 event there and on the ice hill and low friction circuits, found it really gave me better insight into both the way the car breaks traction and also corrects. You are never getting that on either road or track in the same, instantly repeatable way.
Just check your insurance covers this use.
Just check your insurance covers this use.
944 Man said:
This is probably because the longer the wheelbase, and the more stable the platform, the slower it develops and the easier to hold and control it is.
I wish that I could catch my MX-5 as surely as I can a 26t six wheel truck.
I've driven many MX5s on race circuits and never spun one yet. They are very easy to catch.I wish that I could catch my MX-5 as surely as I can a 26t six wheel truck.
Also I've had a 16 tonne 4-wheel LWB rigid sideways in snow at around 40mph. Managed to catch it but response took ages and the truck ran very wide of the bend. Fortunately that was on a proving ground with generous tarmacked runoff areas. On the road, I would have been up the bank and through the hedge (or worse).
You stick to trucks - I'll take the MX5
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