Complete newbie questions
Discussion
Preparing to be laughed out of here but I have a couple of questions which are probably below novice level.
How do you know what gear to be in? I assumed it’s the gear offering the most power and flexibility. However, on videos, I often see people downshift before overtaking. This would suggest they were “cruising” (if I may call it that) in a high gear before executing the overtake. Presumably this isn’t done to conserve fuel…is it to prevent heat build-up or some other such reason?
How does one work out what the racing line is? As I understand; if you were walking it would simply be the shortest route around the track, but in a car it is sometimes worth lengthening this route by taking a corner “wider” in order to get the power down or for some other reason. How does one work out when this should be done? Should a decent driver know the racing line on their first lap of a new-to-them track or is it something learnt over many laps?
Finally, any track day suggestions for a complete novice. I have done a few, with instructors, but they just told me I was driving well, I assume afraid to offend customers by telling them to improve. I am not particularly interested in what I would be driving, as learning to drive. I have read decent things about the official Porsche track days at Silverstone, also come across CAT driver training, pricey but looks good. Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
How do you know what gear to be in? I assumed it’s the gear offering the most power and flexibility. However, on videos, I often see people downshift before overtaking. This would suggest they were “cruising” (if I may call it that) in a high gear before executing the overtake. Presumably this isn’t done to conserve fuel…is it to prevent heat build-up or some other such reason?
How does one work out what the racing line is? As I understand; if you were walking it would simply be the shortest route around the track, but in a car it is sometimes worth lengthening this route by taking a corner “wider” in order to get the power down or for some other reason. How does one work out when this should be done? Should a decent driver know the racing line on their first lap of a new-to-them track or is it something learnt over many laps?
Finally, any track day suggestions for a complete novice. I have done a few, with instructors, but they just told me I was driving well, I assume afraid to offend customers by telling them to improve. I am not particularly interested in what I would be driving, as learning to drive. I have read decent things about the official Porsche track days at Silverstone, also come across CAT driver training, pricey but looks good. Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
OP, buy this book
It’s full of absolutely everything you need to know, written in very simple to understand language and by a very well respected, experienced driver.
It will provide you with lots of theoretical knowledge which you can apply on the next track day. I don’t have any particular recommendations for a driver coach or company but whoever you chose and wherever you go, watch a lot of in car videos of the track before you go
It’s full of absolutely everything you need to know, written in very simple to understand language and by a very well respected, experienced driver.
It will provide you with lots of theoretical knowledge which you can apply on the next track day. I don’t have any particular recommendations for a driver coach or company but whoever you chose and wherever you go, watch a lot of in car videos of the track before you go
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 23 March 21:53
I would recommend looking at YouTube. There is a channel called Driver 61. It’s owned by pro racer and instructor Scott Mansell. These days they mostly do motorsport features. But, when the channel started out, he did a “chalk and talk” series called Driver University, which dealt with the basics and not so basics of track driving. Look for the playlist
Also, look for the Speed Secrets books by Ross Bentley, UK Circuit Guide by Les Cherneca and Driving on the Edge by Michael Krumm.
As for the racing line, there are many ways that could be fast around a corner. It depends on the nature of the corner, what follows, car characteristics and weather conditions. The stuff I have mentioned will help you to experiment and figure things out. Getting instruction on track days is a good idea, but they generally only give you one way around the track. This is good as a basis for improvement but knowledge is power, along with seat time and experimentation.
Also, look for the Speed Secrets books by Ross Bentley, UK Circuit Guide by Les Cherneca and Driving on the Edge by Michael Krumm.
As for the racing line, there are many ways that could be fast around a corner. It depends on the nature of the corner, what follows, car characteristics and weather conditions. The stuff I have mentioned will help you to experiment and figure things out. Getting instruction on track days is a good idea, but they generally only give you one way around the track. This is good as a basis for improvement but knowledge is power, along with seat time and experimentation.
Edited by PJ_Parsons on Thursday 23 March 22:43
Edited by PJ_Parsons on Thursday 23 March 22:47
I’ve done a couple of track days so am certainly no expert, but generally to know what gear to be in just start by driving in what gear feels normal, it is after all a piece of road - you can then feel if a gear is too high or too low, you’ll probably want to find out at what revs your cars peak torque and power are at.
For the racing line you normally have some sighting laps at the start of the day, effectively following an instructor who will take the racing line - but only if you’re close enough to him to see and follow, too many cars back and people have meandered all over the place so you can’t really tell the right line.
You can usually pay for an instructor to help you identify the line for a circuit, as well as gears, braking points, turn in points etc., sometimes one corner’s ideal line may be sacrificed for a better line through the next corner.
ETA: There are far more people on here much better qualified to comment, no doubt they will but remember you’re there to have some fun and don’t push yourself beyond where you feel comfortable.
For the racing line you normally have some sighting laps at the start of the day, effectively following an instructor who will take the racing line - but only if you’re close enough to him to see and follow, too many cars back and people have meandered all over the place so you can’t really tell the right line.
You can usually pay for an instructor to help you identify the line for a circuit, as well as gears, braking points, turn in points etc., sometimes one corner’s ideal line may be sacrificed for a better line through the next corner.
ETA: There are far more people on here much better qualified to comment, no doubt they will but remember you’re there to have some fun and don’t push yourself beyond where you feel comfortable.
Edited by Dashnine on Thursday 23 March 22:43
DriveForFun said:
Finally, any track day suggestions for a complete novice. I have done a few, with instructors, but they just told me I was driving well, I assume afraid to offend customers by telling them to improve.
I will answer this one and add a question for you as the full answer is just the same.You say you have done a few track days with instruction before but they didn't really tell you anything.
I would suggest then, that these weren't track days with a track day instructor as any instructor will be telling you the answers to all of your other questions and absolutely won't keep quiet so as not to offend, they are there to instruct & tell you gears/racing lines & all of your other requirements.
So, on that basis tell us more about the few track days you have already done?
Thanks, all, for the replies. I’ll give the material suggested a good look & get back into YouTube.
Much appreciated.
E-bmw - after reading the forum more I believe I confused “track day” and “experience day”… I guess what I did were more experience-type events that happened to be on a track. The best ones were a classic day as despite them being classics the instructors wanted you to push the cars. Also the first level of the Lotus license at Hethel was good.
That said it seems for the price of one of the events I have been doing I can book a “proper” track day + instructor time so I might look into doing that.
Much appreciated.
E-bmw - after reading the forum more I believe I confused “track day” and “experience day”… I guess what I did were more experience-type events that happened to be on a track. The best ones were a classic day as despite them being classics the instructors wanted you to push the cars. Also the first level of the Lotus license at Hethel was good.
That said it seems for the price of one of the events I have been doing I can book a “proper” track day + instructor time so I might look into doing that.
Another novice here. My track experience has been a "drive various cars" day at Mallory, and taking my old Boxster around Silverstone on a session a few years ago on a PH Sunday Service day, and a reasonable bit of karting. In a few weeks I am taking my Caterham R400 (a very quick piece of kit) to Bedford for my first proper open pit lane day and I'm feeling very excited and also a bit nervous in equal measures!
I've bought a copy of "The Track Day Manual" by Mike Breslin and it's a very good book, well written and illustrated. I have booked an instructor at Bedford, however I appreciate that in a 400bhp/ton car with no windscreen, and wearing helmets, the "instruction" is likely to be pointing and waving. Whilst at Mallory, the instructor would point out apexes etc, but I wanted to know "why" this apex is much later than I expected, or why it was better to run wide at this hairpin. What the book does is bring the theory to life, for example by showing the exit speeds from a corner depending on whether you take an early or late apex, and then conversely how much faster you can be going down the next straight and into the next corner, with two side by side diagrams.
Don't get me wrong, my aims for Bedford are to keep it the right way up and on the black stuff, not get in anyone's way and have fun, but as I hopefully get more "into" it in time, the book really does explain how to lap faster and smoother.
That Ben Collins book looks good too, I'll order that I think.
I've bought a copy of "The Track Day Manual" by Mike Breslin and it's a very good book, well written and illustrated. I have booked an instructor at Bedford, however I appreciate that in a 400bhp/ton car with no windscreen, and wearing helmets, the "instruction" is likely to be pointing and waving. Whilst at Mallory, the instructor would point out apexes etc, but I wanted to know "why" this apex is much later than I expected, or why it was better to run wide at this hairpin. What the book does is bring the theory to life, for example by showing the exit speeds from a corner depending on whether you take an early or late apex, and then conversely how much faster you can be going down the next straight and into the next corner, with two side by side diagrams.
Don't get me wrong, my aims for Bedford are to keep it the right way up and on the black stuff, not get in anyone's way and have fun, but as I hopefully get more "into" it in time, the book really does explain how to lap faster and smoother.
That Ben Collins book looks good too, I'll order that I think.
The answer to most is practice and instruction. Most track day organisers offer sessions with an instructor which I've generally found to be invaluable. If you've got a car that is commonly found at track days then feel free to ask for a passenger ride with anyone in a similar car who looks like they know what they're doing.
And the final point is that track days are fun, not a race. Turn up, have some fun, (keeping an eye out for others and not doing anything daft) and enjoy finding the limits of yourself and your car.
And the final point is that track days are fun, not a race. Turn up, have some fun, (keeping an eye out for others and not doing anything daft) and enjoy finding the limits of yourself and your car.
DriveForFun said:
E-bmw - after reading the forum more I believe I confused “track day” and “experience day”… I guess what I did were more experience-type events that happened to be on a track.
That is what I expected to be your answer.DriveForFun said:
That said it seems for the price of one of the events I have been doing I can book a “proper” track day + instructor time so I might look into doing that.
That is correct, but do not under estimate the possible additional costs for tyre/brake wear as a minimum on your own car, and it's suitability for the day.Hard-Drive said:
Another novice here. My track experience has been a "drive various cars" day at Mallory, and taking my old Boxster around Silverstone on a session a few years ago on a PH Sunday Service day, and a reasonable bit of karting. In a few weeks I am taking my Caterham R400 (a very quick piece of kit) to Bedford for my first proper open pit lane day and I'm feeling very excited and also a bit nervous in equal measures!
I've bought a copy of "The Track Day Manual" by Mike Breslin and it's a very good book, well written and illustrated. I have booked an instructor at Bedford, however I appreciate that in a 400bhp/ton car with no windscreen, and wearing helmets, the "instruction" is likely to be pointing and waving. Whilst at Mallory, the instructor would point out apexes etc, but I wanted to know "why" this apex is much later than I expected, or why it was better to run wide at this hairpin. What the book does is bring the theory to life, for example by showing the exit speeds from a corner depending on whether you take an early or late apex, and then conversely how much faster you can be going down the next straight and into the next corner, with two side by side diagrams.
Don't get me wrong, my aims for Bedford are to keep it the right way up and on the black stuff, not get in anyone's way and have fun, but as I hopefully get more "into" it in time, the book really does explain how to lap faster and smoother.
That Ben Collins book looks good too, I'll order that I think.
Books are useful but coaching is worth 10,000 x more, it really is. I've bought a copy of "The Track Day Manual" by Mike Breslin and it's a very good book, well written and illustrated. I have booked an instructor at Bedford, however I appreciate that in a 400bhp/ton car with no windscreen, and wearing helmets, the "instruction" is likely to be pointing and waving. Whilst at Mallory, the instructor would point out apexes etc, but I wanted to know "why" this apex is much later than I expected, or why it was better to run wide at this hairpin. What the book does is bring the theory to life, for example by showing the exit speeds from a corner depending on whether you take an early or late apex, and then conversely how much faster you can be going down the next straight and into the next corner, with two side by side diagrams.
Don't get me wrong, my aims for Bedford are to keep it the right way up and on the black stuff, not get in anyone's way and have fun, but as I hopefully get more "into" it in time, the book really does explain how to lap faster and smoother.
That Ben Collins book looks good too, I'll order that I think.
By coaching, I don't mean a 20 minute instruction session on a trackday. The instructors are great and they'll help as much as they can but dedicated coaching time is very much different - the focus is on what you want to get out of it, areas you need to develop, reinforcing good habits, breaking bad ones and so on. It's much more than lines round a corner. Some track-day instructors probably can be hired independently.
It's been years for me now, but I had quite a bit of coaching, and it really helped. I remember my first coaching day when I got taken round Brands in my own car. I'd done a couple of trackdays but I had no idea. I said: "Oh, is that how I've got to drive then?!". The car was dancing round the track, and then it clicked that's what I had to do! I needed to be shown, not everyone does.
Driving round, enjoying yourself, being safe and aware of what's happening around you is enough.
I was going racing so my aim was to be quick around a circuit.
I should be heading out back on track next year, and despite having a reasonable amount of experience on track, I appreciate this a long time ago now and I know I'll need some more coaching. I plan on doing some coaching off-circuit (CAT days or similar) to get a feel for limit car control again and I'll get some trackday instructor sessions to familiarise myself with the circuits and pick up some circuit specific advice. Probably won't do days of coaching on a circuit as my goals have changed, but I do plan do get coaching off circuit.
Another novice here;-
One thing ref gears/speed will be to just experience your own car, as all cars/gear ratios/torque curves & power are different. Even in the same cars, one mark may have fewer gears than a later car. What may work in one car, won't in another. Track layout & how good your tyres are will affect entry speeds etc.
I found on one track corner I could be doing 60mph in 2nd gear, with the engine at highest revs, it was quick in the corner, but obviously no acceleration out (so got it wrong). This same corner/speed in 3rd & I was out of the narrow power band. Obviously I got the revs wrong in the higher gear, as that's the way to go (less wear on engine, no change up & potential better speed out), but that's another thing that more experience brings.
One thing ref gears/speed will be to just experience your own car, as all cars/gear ratios/torque curves & power are different. Even in the same cars, one mark may have fewer gears than a later car. What may work in one car, won't in another. Track layout & how good your tyres are will affect entry speeds etc.
I found on one track corner I could be doing 60mph in 2nd gear, with the engine at highest revs, it was quick in the corner, but obviously no acceleration out (so got it wrong). This same corner/speed in 3rd & I was out of the narrow power band. Obviously I got the revs wrong in the higher gear, as that's the way to go (less wear on engine, no change up & potential better speed out), but that's another thing that more experience brings.
number2 said:
It's been years for me now, but I had quite a bit of coaching, and it really helped. I remember my first coaching day when I got taken round Brands in my own car. I'd done a couple of trackdays but I had no idea. I said: "Oh, is that how I've got to drive then?!". The car was dancing round the track, and then it clicked that's what I had to do! I needed to be shown, not everyone does.
Getting somebody good to drive your car while you sit in the passenger seat is a good idea. I do remember a track day instructor pointing out some things that I was doing wrong. I couldn’t really figure what he was getting at. So, we went back to the pits and he drove the car, a couple of notches faster than me. It gave me a great example of what I needed to do and after a think and a bit of practice I got the hang of the things he was suggesting. It’s not practice that you need, it’s too practice properly, so coaching sounds like a good idea.So does anyone have any names of good driver coaches for a day of training? Some of these like Rob Wilson, you are talking £0000’s. Are there any current courses like Car Limits (that Andy Walsh ran) that are worth considering?
Edited by PJ_Parsons on Friday 24th March 16:38
PJ_Parsons said:
Are there any current courses like Car Limits (that Andy Walsh ran) that are worth considering?
]
https://www.drivelimits.com/]
Instructor used to work for Andy. He’s a Lotus owner and works at Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone. Done his / Andy’s courses many times.
To the OP, probably best to start with booking track days and have one or two sessions with an instructor.
Personally, the instructors that are good and with whom I get on well, I usually take their cards so the next time I book with the same TDO I request to have the same instructors, or book them exclusively for half/whole day. (Steve H the PHer here works for Circuit Days and is very good)
Reading books / YouTube are good of course but nothing beats seat time.
DriveForFun said:
Preparing to be laughed out of here but I have a couple of questions
Don't worry, everyone is a novice at their beginning. 
1 - if you've seen people change down before overtaking on track they're doing it wrong and are in too high a gear. The best acceleration is nearly always right up near the redline so that's where you want to be spending as much time as possible (e.g. imagine accelerating at 70mph in 3rd rather than 4th - the former will be quite a bit punchier)
2 - cornering line - what you might read/hear is about making corners as open as possible, because the less tight the angle you're turning, the faster you can go. The red line below - the radius of that curve is much bigger than the other two lines, so the cornering speed will be higher.
Have a search for MSV track days (they own a bunch of the best tracks in the country) and look for the novice days.
Don't feel pressure to go faster than you want to - most people are there to have fun and the occasional fool doesn't usually spoil people's day.
Lots of good advice on this thread, every track addict was a novice once!
On the coaching, for sure there’s benefits to getting longer and more in-depth training but don’t dismiss the value in getting regular 20 minute or one hour sessions. The whole thing is supposed to be fun and for many drivers short sessions are a good way of progressing their skills on a sensible budget and without feeling like they are taking it all a bit too seriously
As an instructor I really like short session work where I can try to give some progression in just one or two runs out on track that the driver can then spend the rest of the day practicing and perfecting.
On the coaching, for sure there’s benefits to getting longer and more in-depth training but don’t dismiss the value in getting regular 20 minute or one hour sessions. The whole thing is supposed to be fun and for many drivers short sessions are a good way of progressing their skills on a sensible budget and without feeling like they are taking it all a bit too seriously
As an instructor I really like short session work where I can try to give some progression in just one or two runs out on track that the driver can then spend the rest of the day practicing and perfecting.
Steve H said:
Lots of good advice on this thread, every track addict was a novice once!
On the coaching, for sure there’s benefits to getting longer and more in-depth training but don’t dismiss the value in getting regular 20 minute or one hour sessions. The whole thing is supposed to be fun and for many drivers short sessions are a good way of progressing their skills on a sensible budget and without feeling like they are taking it all a bit too seriously
As an instructor I really like short session work where I can try to give some progression in just one or two runs out on track that the driver can then spend the rest of the day practicing and perfecting.
I'm still bit of a novice and those short instructor sessions are really useful. I generally ask for advice on 1 or 2 things to work on, such as lines or braking points, which I can then be mindful of for the rest of the day. On the coaching, for sure there’s benefits to getting longer and more in-depth training but don’t dismiss the value in getting regular 20 minute or one hour sessions. The whole thing is supposed to be fun and for many drivers short sessions are a good way of progressing their skills on a sensible budget and without feeling like they are taking it all a bit too seriously
As an instructor I really like short session work where I can try to give some progression in just one or two runs out on track that the driver can then spend the rest of the day practicing and perfecting.
QBee said:
To the Caterham driver, you can get sets of earphones and micrphones, linked by wires and a little battery box, or bluetooth, to connect you and the instructor so that you can talk to each other.
I bought some a couple of years ago for not much money and they worked well.
Yes, I actually made some road intercoms out of bluetooth motorbike intercoms and Peltor ear defenders. They work brilliantly on the road with the Mrs or my lad, but not sure how quick/practical it is to take one of these kits and install/de-install it on the instructor's helmet for a 20 minute session. I'll go along on Monday and suss it all out, I'm sure if the instructor shouts I'll be able to make out "BRAKE" or other simple words with no intercom. We shall see!I bought some a couple of years ago for not much money and they worked well.
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff