Clio 200, Civic Type R FN2 or MX-5 NC?
Discussion
My plan for 2023 is to go back to something I did many years ago, compete in local sprints, maybe a few hillclimbs and practice for these at a few trackdays.
In sprints there is a class for up to 2 litre standard cars where the only allowable mod is brake pad material and I have a budget of £6500 plus or minus a bit to buy something which would be competitive but also reliable as a daily.
I'm probably discounting Clio 182s and EP3 Civics as it's very hard to find a standard one these days and would assume they would be less likely to be reliable.
So I'm probably looking at Clio 200s, FN2 Civics or possibly a 2.0 MX-5 NC, which do you think would be the quickest?
I've had a Clio 200 before and loved it but wasn't convinced it was as quick as previous 182s so I'm leaning towards a Civic, my budget might stretch to a late one with LSD and presumably on track it would stay in the V-tec zone and be decently quick?
In sprints there is a class for up to 2 litre standard cars where the only allowable mod is brake pad material and I have a budget of £6500 plus or minus a bit to buy something which would be competitive but also reliable as a daily.
I'm probably discounting Clio 182s and EP3 Civics as it's very hard to find a standard one these days and would assume they would be less likely to be reliable.
So I'm probably looking at Clio 200s, FN2 Civics or possibly a 2.0 MX-5 NC, which do you think would be the quickest?
I've had a Clio 200 before and loved it but wasn't convinced it was as quick as previous 182s so I'm leaning towards a Civic, my budget might stretch to a late one with LSD and presumably on track it would stay in the V-tec zone and be decently quick?
Clios all the way.
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
Edited by Galveston on Sunday 25th December 10:22
Xcore said:
Mx5 will be alot more fun to hillclimb, there’s a reason why they are popular in grassroots motorsport.
Civic will be marginally quicker in a straight line, but both will get out dragged by a remapped TDi
The TDis are ineligible in this class but it’s rare I’ve been beaten by one overall. Straight line performance isn’t everything. Civic will be marginally quicker in a straight line, but both will get out dragged by a remapped TDi
Don’t underestimate how much fun you can have in a Clio, they’re fabulous little cars. MX5s are always more fun in slower corners where FWD just understeers, but once they’re moving the Clios are fabulously adjustable.
egor110 said:
Would mini cooper s be pushed up classes due to the super charger?
Yes, ineligible, but also slower than the Clios. I’m in danger of sounding like a fan boy (I am) but the Clios are remarkably good out of the box. The others come into their own when modified, but for a standard-only class the Clios are virtually unbeatable.
Galveston said:
Clios all the way.
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
A very interesting reply, thanks.
I used to trackday a 172 Cup, a few years later I did the same with a 200 and was underwhelmed by it's straight line speed.
I've been scanning the classifieds and finding a standard 172/182 seems very tricky, almost all have lower springs, different exhausts etc, presumably scrutineers will be strict about any non-standard parts in the standard class?
Looks like it might be simpler to go to the road going modified class, looking at past results most of them aren't far ahead of the standard cars!
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
A very interesting reply, thanks.
I used to trackday a 172 Cup, a few years later I did the same with a 200 and was underwhelmed by it's straight line speed.
I've been scanning the classifieds and finding a standard 172/182 seems very tricky, almost all have lower springs, different exhausts etc, presumably scrutineers will be strict about any non-standard parts in the standard class?
Looks like it might be simpler to go to the road going modified class, looking at past results most of them aren't far ahead of the standard cars!
Edited by Galveston on Sunday 25th December 10:22
Derek182 said:
Galveston said:
Clios all the way.
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
A very interesting reply, thanks.
I used to trackday a 172 Cup, a few years later I did the same with a 200 and was underwhelmed by it's straight line speed.
I've been scanning the classifieds and finding a standard 172/182 seems very tricky, almost all have lower springs, different exhausts etc, presumably scrutineers will be strict about any non-standard parts in the standard class?
Looks like it might be simpler to go to the road going modified class, looking at past results most of them aren't far ahead of the standard cars!
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
A very interesting reply, thanks.
I used to trackday a 172 Cup, a few years later I did the same with a 200 and was underwhelmed by it's straight line speed.
I've been scanning the classifieds and finding a standard 172/182 seems very tricky, almost all have lower springs, different exhausts etc, presumably scrutineers will be strict about any non-standard parts in the standard class?
Looks like it might be simpler to go to the road going modified class, looking at past results most of them aren't far ahead of the standard cars!
Edited by Galveston on Sunday 25th December 10:22
Derek182 said:
Galveston said:
Clios all the way.
I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
A very interesting reply, thanks.I hold lots of the Standard Car class records, in a Clio 172 Cup. I’ve never been beaten by an MX5 or a Civic, which both seem slower in reality than on paper. The Clio punches well above its weight.
The only venue where I struggle in the 172 is Curborough, where all the records are held by 200s. So I bought one… but I’ve been unlucky, it’s knackered, and so far haven’t been able to match my times in the 172.
The 172 Cup would be my choice - they seem to be the fastest of the 172/182s. It’s the lightest by some margin, and don’t be fooled by thinking the 182s are more powerful. Mine’s been tough as old boots, remarkably reliable. It’s done >100 sprints and hillclimbs with no real issues. Fabulous little machine.
I suspect a good 200 would be quicker than the 172 at some venues - its chassis finds grip the 172 can only dream of - but up most hillclimbs the extra weight is more of a penalty.
Edited by Galveston on Sunday 25th December 10:22
I used to trackday a 172 Cup, a few years later I did the same with a 200 and was underwhelmed by it's straight line speed.
I've been scanning the classifieds and finding a standard 172/182 seems very tricky, almost all have lower springs, different exhausts etc, presumably scrutineers will be strict about any non-standard parts in the standard class?
Looks like it might be simpler to go to the road going modified class, looking at past results most of them aren't far ahead of the standard cars!
There are standard 172/182s out there, but you're right that you have to look quite hard to find them. I'm a member of a couple of FB groups which are probably the best place to look these days - "Clio 172 Cup Owners Group" and "Cliosport.net Owners Club" would be my starting point.
Scrutineers aren't likely to notice any subtle modifications, but your fellow competitors will call you out if you start winning with non-standard bits. Nobody will give a toss about things like aftermarket exhausts - everybody knows there's no performance advantage - but if the suspension isn't standard you'll have people on your case quite quickly if you're fast.
I love SC, though it isn't always well subscribed. As soon as you move into the modified classes it becomes a chequebook sport, whereas SC is all about the driving - there's far more difference between the drivers than there is between the cars. It's also amazing how competitive a standard Clio can be - at the Abingdon Long Course sprint I'm usually 30-35th overall of a 120 car entry, in my bog-standard shopping car on normal road rubber. It always makes me snigger. As soon as you start modifying it loses that appeal.
If you need any inspiration, there are lots of onboard videos of a tall man driving a standard Renault Clio here... https://www.youtube.com/@handbrakebob/videos
Good luck!
In the end I've gone for a Fiesta ST180.
Not on my original list but locally there's a roadgoing sprint class for up to 2300cc 2WD which a 1.6 turbo (multiply capacity by 1.4 if it's a turbo) fits in to.
The one I've bought has been mildly modified to nearly 240hp so should go well and make a nice daily with modern comforts, bluetooth, DAB etc.
My plan is to do a few local events this year and if I enjoy myself and am moderately competitive then make the car a bit more focussed for next year, semi-slicks, LSD and so on.
Not on my original list but locally there's a roadgoing sprint class for up to 2300cc 2WD which a 1.6 turbo (multiply capacity by 1.4 if it's a turbo) fits in to.
The one I've bought has been mildly modified to nearly 240hp so should go well and make a nice daily with modern comforts, bluetooth, DAB etc.
My plan is to do a few local events this year and if I enjoy myself and am moderately competitive then make the car a bit more focussed for next year, semi-slicks, LSD and so on.
Derek182 said:
In the end I've gone for a Fiesta ST180.
Not on my original list but locally there's a roadgoing sprint class for up to 2300cc 2WD which a 1.6 turbo (multiply capacity by 1.4 if it's a turbo) fits in to.
The one I've bought has been mildly modified to nearly 240hp so should go well and make a nice daily with modern comforts, bluetooth, DAB etc.
My plan is to do a few local events this year and if I enjoy myself and am moderately competitive then make the car a bit more focussed for next year, semi-slicks, LSD and so on.
Great choice .Not on my original list but locally there's a roadgoing sprint class for up to 2300cc 2WD which a 1.6 turbo (multiply capacity by 1.4 if it's a turbo) fits in to.
The one I've bought has been mildly modified to nearly 240hp so should go well and make a nice daily with modern comforts, bluetooth, DAB etc.
My plan is to do a few local events this year and if I enjoy myself and am moderately competitive then make the car a bit more focussed for next year, semi-slicks, LSD and so on.
I ran one as a track car and had great fun with it (until Goodwood) and did a fair few upgrades so the below may be of some help and feel free to PM me if you need any information.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Kaveney said:
Great choice .
I ran one as a track car and had great fun with it (until Goodwood) and did a fair few upgrades so the below may be of some help and feel free to PM me if you need any information.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Excellent thread!.......Then, I ran one as a track car and had great fun with it (until Goodwood) and did a fair few upgrades so the below may be of some help and feel free to PM me if you need any information.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff