Wet trackday at Bedford today (Saturday 19.11)
Discussion
It was the first trackday I’ve done in such conditions. Standing water everywhere, pouring rain for about 3 hours in the afternoon. Before I sometimes thought a really wet trackday could be fun but having now done one, I don’t think I enjoyed it much. Going at 2/3 normal speed, almost aquaplaning on the long straight, etc. Also did I count correctly or 4 cars crashed? 2 which collided in the morning (I arrived late and missed the situation but I was told about it), then 2 hit tyre barriers later in the day?
Edited by px1980 on Saturday 19th November 21:04
Edited by px1980 on Saturday 19th November 21:04
I was there yesterday, first trackday in a quite a while for me.
I actually enjoyed the wet weather, being front wheel drive with road tyres and an LSD probably helped that though.
I believe the coming together of 2 cars was just people following too closely and not having enough space to react to an incident. That was actually before it started raining although the track was very greasy.
Once the rain came down there was more space out on track and I felt much more comfortable out there!
I actually enjoyed the wet weather, being front wheel drive with road tyres and an LSD probably helped that though.
I believe the coming together of 2 cars was just people following too closely and not having enough space to react to an incident. That was actually before it started raining although the track was very greasy.
Once the rain came down there was more space out on track and I felt much more comfortable out there!
I was at snetterton last week and it was the same. A lot of cars off, and i had my first proper spin accross the grass. I didn't help myself by taking the wrong tyres as the forecast wasn't that bad.
Much, much harder than a dry day and really tricky to get a good rhythm. Plus a few idiots taking risks.
But despite that, all the cars made it round and back home again.
Much, much harder than a dry day and really tricky to get a good rhythm. Plus a few idiots taking risks.
But despite that, all the cars made it round and back home again.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Sunday 20th November 08:47
What a bizarre statement for a British based forum.
Rain has become the enemy, just like in F1, and nobody can drive in it.
These conditions are some of the best to learn about car control because everything happens at lower, more manageable speeds.
Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
If you’re going so fast on back straight you’re aquaplaning, just ease off and brake later; it’s the same outcome?!?
Rain has become the enemy, just like in F1, and nobody can drive in it.
These conditions are some of the best to learn about car control because everything happens at lower, more manageable speeds.
Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
If you’re going so fast on back straight you’re aquaplaning, just ease off and brake later; it’s the same outcome?!?
I 8 a 4RE said:
These conditions are some of the best to learn about car control because everything happens at lower, more manageable speeds.
Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
I thought the same when a trackday at Cadwell Park started hosing it down at around 2.30. I waited for an hour or so for the rain to abate, however in the end grew bored of waiting and ventured out. Jesus Christ... in my K20 EG it was a nightmare, spinning the wheels in 6th at random places on the straights, locking wheels everywhere under brakes as couldn't get the pads up to temp, and aquaplaning to boot. After 3 laps I decided to call it a day, only thing i'd have been learning by staying out would have been the first names of the chaps driving the recovery truck Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
Chunkychucky said:
I 8 a 4RE said:
These conditions are some of the best to learn about car control because everything happens at lower, more manageable speeds.
Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
I thought the same when a trackday at Cadwell Park started hosing it down at around 2.30. I waited for an hour or so for the rain to abate, however in the end grew bored of waiting and ventured out. Jesus Christ... in my K20 EG it was a nightmare, spinning the wheels in 6th at random places on the straights, locking wheels everywhere under brakes as couldn't get the pads up to temp, and aquaplaning to boot. After 3 laps I decided to call it a day, only thing i'd have been learning by staying out would have been the first names of the chaps driving the recovery truck Learn about weight transfer, steering on the throttle, importance of tyre temps, etc.
The problem often tends to be tyres. Some still try to use semi slicks which have no chance in the cold and wet. A good road tyre, rated "A" for wet grip is what you need. Michelin PS4/PS5 or Goodyear Assy 5/6. I did a wet day at Oulton, a few weeks ago, it was great fun and I did not see one crash. I noticed that most of the punters had good rain tyres, like the ones I mentioned. They seemed to having as much fun as me. Others, using AD08R etc may as well have stayed at home. Driving in the rain is fun if you let it be and some can make an art of it. There is a point when the track is too wet but that is rare.
I was there on a wet day in October, bought to a halt by a flying bar into the windscreen… even so, was quite glad as I really didn’t enjoy the wet track.
However the dry weekend last week was perfect!! I reckon I only got 50% of the power down in the wet, it that… and the traction control was driving me bananas !
However the dry weekend last week was perfect!! I reckon I only got 50% of the power down in the wet, it that… and the traction control was driving me bananas !
I’ve experienced a couple of extremely wet days at Bedford. Aquaplaning down the long straight does sharpen the senses.
On one occasion the track was closed for most of the morning because it was waterlogged.
Another time I was behind a Caterham which ran a little wide out of the final corner. The bow wave from the standing water went over the car like 007 in a Lotus. He stopped on circuit shortly after with failed electrics.
They were not days when you could learn anything about racing lines or car control.
On one occasion the track was closed for most of the morning because it was waterlogged.
Another time I was behind a Caterham which ran a little wide out of the final corner. The bow wave from the standing water went over the car like 007 in a Lotus. He stopped on circuit shortly after with failed electrics.
They were not days when you could learn anything about racing lines or car control.
I was at Bedford on Saturday and thought it was great fun.
It was slippy in places all day but when the rain came down it felt like driving on ice. Pace slowed but it was a good time to learn the circuit at a slower speeds and try alternative lines where there was more grip.
I thought it was well run by the organisers too.
Regards, doggydog.
It was slippy in places all day but when the rain came down it felt like driving on ice. Pace slowed but it was a good time to learn the circuit at a slower speeds and try alternative lines where there was more grip.
I thought it was well run by the organisers too.
Regards, doggydog.
PJ_Parsons said:
The problem often tends to be tyres. Some still try to use semi slicks which have no chance in the cold and wet. A good road tyre, rated "A" for wet grip is what you need.
I'd agree with that! I have done many wet track days in my Porsche (on road tyres) and have always had a great time and have been able to learn a lot whilst still putting down a respectable time. I recently did a very wet track day in my race car on Toyo R888R tyres (the weather forecast wasn't supposed to be that bad) and it wasn't particularly enjoyable. I couldn't get any heat into them (they were literally stone cold at the end of each session) and it was like driving on ice. I think I had more spins in one afternoon than I have in the past five years and I'm not convinced that I learnt much i think bedford is probably the only track i dont mind so much if it rains, as you've got so much run off in case you get it wrong. That said, i still prefer a bone dry day. since ive switched cars away from long wheelbase bmw drift machines to shorter wheelbase, and now mid engined cars, the stabs of oversteer arent as fun as they once were.
there was a time on cheap rubber, sliding a car around in the wet was great fun. but these days, you'll quickly get black flagged for that. so nowadays i tend to aim to grip and go - but occasionally that means i'll have a day with reduced running if it rains a lot. Last time i was at cadwell and the heavens opened we stayed in the cafe all afternoon watching the GP rather than venturing out - plenty of people found the barriers that day and aquaplaning on the straights didnt sound like fun.
there was a time on cheap rubber, sliding a car around in the wet was great fun. but these days, you'll quickly get black flagged for that. so nowadays i tend to aim to grip and go - but occasionally that means i'll have a day with reduced running if it rains a lot. Last time i was at cadwell and the heavens opened we stayed in the cafe all afternoon watching the GP rather than venturing out - plenty of people found the barriers that day and aquaplaning on the straights didnt sound like fun.
brillomaster said:
i think bedford is probably the only track i dont mind so much if it rains, as you've got so much run off in case you get it wrong. That said, i still prefer a bone dry day. since ive switched cars away from long wheelbase bmw drift machines to shorter wheelbase, and now mid engined cars, the stabs of oversteer arent as fun as they once were.
there was a time on cheap rubber, sliding a car around in the wet was great fun. but these days, you'll quickly get black flagged for that. so nowadays i tend to aim to grip and go - but occasionally that means i'll have a day with reduced running if it rains a lot. Last time i was at cadwell and the heavens opened we stayed in the cafe all afternoon watching the GP rather than venturing out - plenty of people found the barriers that day and aquaplaning on the straights didnt sound like fun.
Yeah. A quick correction to catch your attention is great on a dry day. But heart stopping in the wet, as you fear an unplanned visit to the barrier.there was a time on cheap rubber, sliding a car around in the wet was great fun. but these days, you'll quickly get black flagged for that. so nowadays i tend to aim to grip and go - but occasionally that means i'll have a day with reduced running if it rains a lot. Last time i was at cadwell and the heavens opened we stayed in the cafe all afternoon watching the GP rather than venturing out - plenty of people found the barriers that day and aquaplaning on the straights didnt sound like fun.
Mind you, the Zenos went almost completely sideways at a very wet Oulton, through the first corner, and not spinning or crashing was one of the most rewarding moments. Unfortunately no-one witnessed my heroic moment.
I think the term "sunk cost' is well worth remembering when you turn up on a track day and it's really wet. Unless you are a very capable driver, there's no shame in sitting the session out and drinking coffee and chatting in the pit garage. It may be the best decision you will make all day and save your car for the next track day!
('Sunk Cost' is the phenomenon that prevents people walking out of terrible movies/ plays etc because they feel the need to get value from their ticket purchase. THhy've already spent the money, that's the 'sunk cost' the decision about whether to continue participating rests entirely on what is the best decision now, and you should ignore the cost already paid. So not participating in a trackway you have already paid for if it saves you a high risk of a crash is the better decision)
('Sunk Cost' is the phenomenon that prevents people walking out of terrible movies/ plays etc because they feel the need to get value from their ticket purchase. THhy've already spent the money, that's the 'sunk cost' the decision about whether to continue participating rests entirely on what is the best decision now, and you should ignore the cost already paid. So not participating in a trackway you have already paid for if it saves you a high risk of a crash is the better decision)
Tobermory said:
I think the term "sunk cost' is well worth remembering when you turn up on a track day and it's really wet. Unless you are a very capable driver, there's no shame in sitting the session out and drinking coffee and chatting in the pit garage. It may be the best decision you will make all day and save your car for the next track day!
('Sunk Cost' is the phenomenon that prevents people walking out of terrible movies/ plays etc because they feel the need to get value from their ticket purchase. THhy've already spent the money, that's the 'sunk cost' the decision about whether to continue participating rests entirely on what is the best decision now, and you should ignore the cost already paid. So not participating in a trackway you have already paid for if it saves you a high risk of a crash is the better decision)
I used this argument with my late wife. We booked concerts, theatre and so on in London regularly - you had to book ahead of time.('Sunk Cost' is the phenomenon that prevents people walking out of terrible movies/ plays etc because they feel the need to get value from their ticket purchase. THhy've already spent the money, that's the 'sunk cost' the decision about whether to continue participating rests entirely on what is the best decision now, and you should ignore the cost already paid. So not participating in a trackway you have already paid for if it saves you a high risk of a crash is the better decision)
On occasion she didn't feel well enough to go to London when the day came round. I just said to her that there was no point in going if she felt ill, and if we didn't go we saved the 140 miles travel costs and the eating out costs, and I wouid be able to get a couple of hours work done instead, thus generating more income.
The concert tickets were a sunk cost, spent a couple of months earlier.
I take the same approach with track days - you book in hope, but there's no point in taking your car on track if the risks are too high, or if you would be driving so slowly that the enjoyment would be minimal. I almost always go to track days where friends are also booked, and if you know TVR owners, you will know that we can talk for Europe at all times, while putting the world to rights.
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