Tow Car for Track Day R53
Discussion
Not sure if this is in the correct location. I have a Mini Cooper S R53 and a Seat Leon X-Perience. The Leon has a towing capacity of 2000kg so theoretically is fine to tow the Mini (roughly 1150kg) and trailer (500kg). This still brings me well under the 2000kg. But I’m just not convinced once loaded up, and with the car full with tools and spare wheels, that it’ll cope that well. What do you think?
If I replaced it, what would you get? I don’t really want an SUV, so my options aren’t huge to be honest. Something like an A6 Allroad maybe? The Leon is a really well specced car so would want something with all the creature comforts too, as it would still be used for long journeys when not towing.
If I replaced it, what would you get? I don’t really want an SUV, so my options aren’t huge to be honest. Something like an A6 Allroad maybe? The Leon is a really well specced car so would want something with all the creature comforts too, as it would still be used for long journeys when not towing.
Edited by Alan16ac on Saturday 1st October 10:30
It shouldn’t have a problem towing it, you’ll struggle to find any cars with much more towing capacity than 2 tons unless you go to a SUV or and pickup truck.
An E class estate might be a better option with the air suspension but be careful as some models won’t allow a tow bar to be fitted!
Alex
An E class estate might be a better option with the air suspension but be careful as some models won’t allow a tow bar to be fitted!
Alex
From a safety perspective the recommended towed weight ie trailer plus racing car should not exceed 85% of the towing vehicle. This is aimed at reducing the risk of the trailer pushing the outfit and causing snaking ie the trailer try’s to overtake the towing vehicle.
There are some websites that can rate cars fir different trailers/caravans and include not only weight issues but also power issues.
Also need to look at the maximum hitch weight for the towing car ie how well the trailer is balanced. Some cars have very low weights which can cause issues.
There are some websites that can rate cars fir different trailers/caravans and include not only weight issues but also power issues.
Also need to look at the maximum hitch weight for the towing car ie how well the trailer is balanced. Some cars have very low weights which can cause issues.
My experience of towing various things (horse trailer with two on board - 2.4 tonnes, track car on trailer 1400 kg all up, caravan 1400 kg all up) is that the best towing vehicles are diesels.
The horse trailer always needed a bigger vehicle, but strangely while my 4 litre petrol Ford Explorer (204 bhp) really struggled with it, while the physically smaller Mercedes ML 270 diesel drove like the horse trailer almost wasn't there. I haven't towed the horse trailer for a few years now.
I started towing the car trailer and caravan with a 250 bhp (followed by a170 bhp) petrol Saab 9-5 estate. Same car, different turbo. Very thirsty, and the caravan in particular had a nasty tendency to wag at speeds over 50 mph. I am careful about weight distribution and nose weight, it wasn't that, it was just tiring driving it.
Got myself a 2.2 litre mark 1 diesel Nissan X Trail instead. A princely136 bhp when new, but 270 ft lbs of torque (as far as I remember). Tows either trailer like a dream, and having selectable 4x4 it is handy when you need to make an uphill exit from a wet field. Loads of space in the back for kit, wihtout being mahoosive. 38-40 mpg without the trailers, about 30-32 mpg towing the car trailer inc car, about 25-27 mpg towing the windbreak
The horse trailer always needed a bigger vehicle, but strangely while my 4 litre petrol Ford Explorer (204 bhp) really struggled with it, while the physically smaller Mercedes ML 270 diesel drove like the horse trailer almost wasn't there. I haven't towed the horse trailer for a few years now.
I started towing the car trailer and caravan with a 250 bhp (followed by a170 bhp) petrol Saab 9-5 estate. Same car, different turbo. Very thirsty, and the caravan in particular had a nasty tendency to wag at speeds over 50 mph. I am careful about weight distribution and nose weight, it wasn't that, it was just tiring driving it.
Got myself a 2.2 litre mark 1 diesel Nissan X Trail instead. A princely136 bhp when new, but 270 ft lbs of torque (as far as I remember). Tows either trailer like a dream, and having selectable 4x4 it is handy when you need to make an uphill exit from a wet field. Loads of space in the back for kit, wihtout being mahoosive. 38-40 mpg without the trailers, about 30-32 mpg towing the car trailer inc car, about 25-27 mpg towing the windbreak
alfa-alex said:
It shouldn’t have a problem towing it, you’ll struggle to find any cars with much more towing capacity than 2 tons unless you go to a SUV or and pickup truck.
An E class estate might be a better option with the air suspension but be careful as some models won’t allow a tow bar to be fitted!
Alex
I just know I really wouldn't enjoy driving a lardy SUV or pickup as a daily. I'd consider one as a car just for the job of towing. Would be handy with the extra space for tools and wheels etc too. I no longer want to drive to trackdays as it's no fun when the car has an issue and can't be driven home, which given the nature of the driving on a trackday, isn't unlikely.An E class estate might be a better option with the air suspension but be careful as some models won’t allow a tow bar to be fitted!
Alex
I may just go ahead and tow with the Leon and see how it feels/copes. Will be annoying to fork out for a towbar and electrics for it to not feel great though. Other option is buying something specifically for towing and using it for that purpose only. But then that's a lot to spend for maybe 8 track days a year. I'm always happy of a reason to buy another car though.
With 4 on the drive already, I'll soon run out of space. I don't think the opening of my garage is going to be big enough to store the trailer and track car in either, which is annoying. V8 Bob said:
From a safety perspective the recommended towed weight ie trailer plus racing car should not exceed 85% of the towing vehicle. This is aimed at reducing the risk of the trailer pushing the outfit and causing snaking ie the trailer try’s to overtake the towing vehicle.
There are some websites that can rate cars fir different trailers/caravans and include not only weight issues but also power issues.
Also need to look at the maximum hitch weight for the towing car ie how well the trailer is balanced. Some cars have very low weights which can cause issues.
This is another consideration. Although the weight of the Leon, plus tools, wheels and myself will be greater than the weight of the trailer and the Mini, it won't be enough of a difference to be within the recommended 85%. I am a sensible driver and would drive accordingly however.There are some websites that can rate cars fir different trailers/caravans and include not only weight issues but also power issues.
Also need to look at the maximum hitch weight for the towing car ie how well the trailer is balanced. Some cars have very low weights which can cause issues.
Pistonsquirter said:
Defo a merc W210 or 211 wagon, very good with car trailers, if complete with rear SLS.
Or a 1999 Ford F-150 SVT Lightning with ‘The Racers Edge’ decals..
Something with SLS or air suspension would be great. How reliable are features like SLS though, especially as a W211 will be getting on a bit now.Or a 1999 Ford F-150 SVT Lightning with ‘The Racers Edge’ decals..
We had the same dilemma, the Skoda Superb can tow 2T so managed to find a trailer plated to 2T max, mustang is stripped out and is just a few KG's over your mini. Sometimes we forget we are towing it, get 40+ mpg towing. Get a tow ball nose weight device to check balance so your car is in the right place, usually about 75KG nose weight and mark the trailer so you can park in the same spot.
Perspective makes it look a bit mad, twin wheels are what you need for stability.
Perspective makes it look a bit mad, twin wheels are what you need for stability.
Dan_The_Man said:
We had the same dilemma, the Skoda Superb can tow 2T so managed to find a trailer plated to 2T max, mustang is stripped out and is just a few KG's over your mini. Sometimes we forget we are towing it, get 40+ mpg towing. Get a tow ball nose weight device to check balance so your car is in the right place, usually about 75KG nose weight and mark the trailer so you can park in the same spot.
Perspective makes it look a bit mad, twin wheels are what you need for stability.
Which engine and gearbox do you have? Is that the 2.0 diesel or petrol? The Superb uses the same running gear as my Leon as it sits on the same platform so should be pretty similar. I have the 2.0 184 diesel with DSG.Perspective makes it look a bit mad, twin wheels are what you need for stability.
Alan16ac said:
Which engine and gearbox do you have? Is that the 2.0 diesel or petrol? The Superb uses the same running gear as my Leon as it sits on the same platform so should be pretty similar. I have the 2.0 184 diesel with DSG.
2.0 TDI manual, cost £500 to get the towbar installed and they reprogram the ECU to register the trailer when connected which changes things like cruise control and reverse parking buzzer etc.V8 Bob said:
From a safety perspective the recommended towed weight ie trailer plus racing car should not exceed 85% of the towing vehicle. This is aimed at reducing the risk of the trailer pushing the outfit and causing snaking ie the trailer try’s to overtake the towing vehicle.
Just curious about whose recommendation this is? The trailers will be braked surely? I also didn't think the issue of snaking is anything to do with "pushing on"ETA to the OP's question, I think the Leon will do the job. Only gut feel from lots of years of towing race cars.
Well I had a detachable towbar installed last week, and the best day a bargain MINI Cooper R50 popped up for sale on facebook with some bits on it I'd like for the Cooper I already have. So I hired a trailer for £45 which isn't bad I don't think, and collected it yesterday
The Seat towed really well, didn't struggle at all, oil temp never went above 99 degrees, and I still averaged 35mpg whilst towing! Happy with that. My car had towbar prep so the installer told me, so it shows on the dash when you select reverse, the sensors for the rear don't display and it shows a trailer hooked up instead. Gearbox auto adjusts and an extra symbol on the dash for the trailer lights too. Meant to have stability assist or something for towing too, although I drove very sensibly so should, hopefully, never be in a situation where that would be needed.
Indi R50
Indi R50
The Seat towed really well, didn't struggle at all, oil temp never went above 99 degrees, and I still averaged 35mpg whilst towing! Happy with that. My car had towbar prep so the installer told me, so it shows on the dash when you select reverse, the sensors for the rear don't display and it shows a trailer hooked up instead. Gearbox auto adjusts and an extra symbol on the dash for the trailer lights too. Meant to have stability assist or something for towing too, although I drove very sensibly so should, hopefully, never be in a situation where that would be needed.
Indi R50Indi R50Interested to see how you get on towing with the Leon, I've currently got a Cupra Ateca which i'm considering using as a tow car should I decided to tow my MR2 to track days. Bit like the Mini it would be around 1000kg of car on a 500kg trailer, with the Ateca weighing 1626kg and able to tow 2100kg in theory. I'm thinking with me in it, and some tools and tyres etc the car will be nearer 1800kg, so right on the limit of the 85% recommendation. My thinking is with 300BHP and all wheel drive it should be an ideal tow car!
DD3566 said:
Interested to see how you get on towing with the Leon, I've currently got a Cupra Ateca which i'm considering using as a tow car should I decided to tow my MR2 to track days. Bit like the Mini it would be around 1000kg of car on a 500kg trailer, with the Ateca weighing 1626kg and able to tow 2100kg in theory. I'm thinking with me in it, and some tools and tyres etc the car will be nearer 1800kg, so right on the limit of the 85% recommendation. My thinking is with 300BHP and all wheel drive it should be an ideal tow car!
Don't sweat the 85% thing. It's very old advice from The Caravan Club aimed at novice towers dragging plastic boxes around. Your car is rated to tow what it's rated at.Have you got a side on photo of your Mini on the trailer? It looks well to the back of the mid-point on the first of your photos.
It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
QBee said:
Have you got a side on photo of your Mini on the trailer? It looks well to the back of the mid-point on the first of your photos.
It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
The weight distribution of the R53 MINI is roughly 64/36 front to rear. The front wheels are slightly forward of the front axle of the trailer and the nose weight was measured at circa 80kg, further forward and the nose weight increased. The weight of the trailer is well distributed here and there were 0 issues with towing and stability. If this car were an MX5 for example, with a 50/50 weight distribution, I would have parked the car further forward on the trailer to accommodate for this. The Mini is particularly nose heavy, despite its agile handling. It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
I’m not the kind of person to do things by half or take risks, I like to research and ensure I’m always legal and safe with things. I purchased a nose weight measurement device on Amazon before I even had the tow bar fitted. Really happy I kept the Leon now as it did a great job. Was very close to chopping it in for a Touareg or something.
Alan16ac said:
QBee said:
Have you got a side on photo of your Mini on the trailer? It looks well to the back of the mid-point on the first of your photos.
It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
The weight distribution of the R53 MINI is roughly 64/36 front to rear. The front wheels are slightly forward of the front axle of the trailer and the nose weight was measured at circa 80kg, further forward and the nose weight increased. The weight of the trailer is well distributed here and there were 0 issues with towing and stability. If this car were an MX5 for example, with a 50/50 weight distribution, I would have parked the car further forward on the trailer to accommodate for this. The Mini is particularly nose heavy, despite its agile handling. It is important that you have the weight of the car far enough forwards on the trailer, in other words slightly forward of the mid-point. You want a downward force of about 80kg on the tow hitch.
Have it too far back and you will get an almighty tail-wagging-the-dog effect from below 50 mph.
I discovered this when I put my track car, minus engine, on the trailer in its normal position, forgetting that the balance was now to the rear of the midline of the trailer. Nearly lost the whole lot when overtaking an HGV at 52 mph on a dual carnageway.
I’m not the kind of person to do things by half or take risks, I like to research and ensure I’m always legal and safe with things. I purchased a nose weight measurement device on Amazon before I even had the tow bar fitted. Really happy I kept the Leon now as it did a great job. Was very close to chopping it in for a Touareg or something.
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