Discussion
Timthetoolman said:
Using r888r’s on a small hill climb car. First couple of events were a good improvement with them but now they are just loosing grip/screeching round the bends!! Played with tyre pressures 26-28. Gone down to 24 now!? Any ideas??
Critically, are these cold or hot pressures?We set R888Rs to hot stabilised pressure of 30psi which seems to give optimum performance. Exceed 32psi hot pressures and their grip degrades noticeably.
Unlike some tyres, R888Rs are fairly tolerant to heat cycling which extends their life
This is an interesting question, because unless I am mistaken, you are starting the sprint on cold tyres.
I have done numerous track days on R888rs, and they work really well, but I do allow about 2-3 miles of fairly vigorous cornering to warm them up before I really lean on them.
If I am wrong here, then ignore the rest of this post.
I went drag racing for the first time a few years ago. 1100 kg car, no idea how to warm up my tyres.
First run I was on an old set of road tyres because I joined the Asda-carpark-on-Christmas-Eve length queue the moment I arrived.
Second run I had changed to R888s. Missed a gear change
Third run I was on R888s and didn't miss a gear change.
I have since then been to a couple more drag strips, shod on various track tyres including R888rs.
The fastest run I ever did was that first run at my first meet on road tryes.
Now I understand why you wouldn't want to be cornering on a hill climb on standard road tyres, but would you be wise to consider using something that works from cold but grips like araldite on corners? Michelin PS2 or 4 (someone will be along who knows which are the grippy ones) spring to mind. I seem to remember that they work fine as road tyres on Porsches and stick when used as track tyres too.
I have done numerous track days on R888rs, and they work really well, but I do allow about 2-3 miles of fairly vigorous cornering to warm them up before I really lean on them.
If I am wrong here, then ignore the rest of this post.
I went drag racing for the first time a few years ago. 1100 kg car, no idea how to warm up my tyres.
First run I was on an old set of road tyres because I joined the Asda-carpark-on-Christmas-Eve length queue the moment I arrived.
Second run I had changed to R888s. Missed a gear change
Third run I was on R888s and didn't miss a gear change.
I have since then been to a couple more drag strips, shod on various track tyres including R888rs.
The fastest run I ever did was that first run at my first meet on road tryes.
Now I understand why you wouldn't want to be cornering on a hill climb on standard road tyres, but would you be wise to consider using something that works from cold but grips like araldite on corners? Michelin PS2 or 4 (someone will be along who knows which are the grippy ones) spring to mind. I seem to remember that they work fine as road tyres on Porsches and stick when used as track tyres too.
I use PS4’s on my Boxster on the road. They are excellent tyres and grip very well from cold.
I do use R888‘s on track and as QBee has said, they take a few miles to warm up but brilliant afterwards.
Unless you have a chance to drive like a lunatic for five minutes before your run I would have thought that there is probably a better option.
I do use R888‘s on track and as QBee has said, they take a few miles to warm up but brilliant afterwards.
Unless you have a chance to drive like a lunatic for five minutes before your run I would have thought that there is probably a better option.
One more thing to add re R888rs.
I used to do sprint events at Curborough back in the 2010s.
The fornat was that you queued up behind anything up to 20 other cars, and took turns spending 90 seconds on track sliding around on cold tyres.
To test the warming up theory, on one occasion when the track was quiet, I nipped out of the gate and 400 yards or so down the road, and did about 20 high speeed rotations around one of the roundabouts near the track.
Drove back as fast as sense allowed and took my turn, waiting the 2 minutes to go on track. Jumped out of the car and took the temperature of the tyres while waiting.
Now, after I have done 10 laps on a track day, my tyres would be around 50 degrees C.
After 20 laps of a roundabout they were......30 degrees C.
So to warm up the tyres before a sprint/hill climb, you need to make a proper job of it.
What I ought to have done is tried the track on good road tyres, but it didn't cross my mind at the time, and the sprint days became so popular that for me it became like RWYB drag racing - a full day off work to spend no more than than 10-15 minutes on track, so I stopped going.
I used to do sprint events at Curborough back in the 2010s.
The fornat was that you queued up behind anything up to 20 other cars, and took turns spending 90 seconds on track sliding around on cold tyres.
To test the warming up theory, on one occasion when the track was quiet, I nipped out of the gate and 400 yards or so down the road, and did about 20 high speeed rotations around one of the roundabouts near the track.
Drove back as fast as sense allowed and took my turn, waiting the 2 minutes to go on track. Jumped out of the car and took the temperature of the tyres while waiting.
Now, after I have done 10 laps on a track day, my tyres would be around 50 degrees C.
After 20 laps of a roundabout they were......30 degrees C.
So to warm up the tyres before a sprint/hill climb, you need to make a proper job of it.
What I ought to have done is tried the track on good road tyres, but it didn't cross my mind at the time, and the sprint days became so popular that for me it became like RWYB drag racing - a full day off work to spend no more than than 10-15 minutes on track, so I stopped going.
Braking puts as much or more heat into your tyres than cornering, not surprised driving round a roundabout repeatedly didn't do much. Braking not only puts more load through the tyre but the brakes obviously generate heat which radiates into the wheel and also the tyre.
The only way to warm a set of tyres up for a sprint adequately (fronts and rears) is tyre warmers.
The only way to warm a set of tyres up for a sprint adequately (fronts and rears) is tyre warmers.
Edited by Yazza54 on Sunday 4th December 10:36
Yazza54 said:
Throw them in the bin and fit some Nankang AR1s. I've just spend a day at oulton park testing the R888R Vs AR1 to help select a new control tyre for our championship and the AR1 is a far superior tyre.
Interesting comment 
We run Toyo R888R and Nankang AR1, albeit on different cars of similar weight but very different power levels. Tyre sizes differ too.
But in terms of corner speed, R888R is comparable to AR1. Both work really well when hot. We have found that optimum tyre selection is very dependent on car type.
bigothunter said:
Yazza54 said:
Throw them in the bin and fit some Nankang AR1s. I've just spend a day at oulton park testing the R888R Vs AR1 to help select a new control tyre for our championship and the AR1 is a far superior tyre.
Interesting comment We run Toyo R888R and Nankang AR1, albeit on different cars of similar weight but very different power levels. Tyre sizes differ too.
But in terms of corner speed, R888R is comparable to AR1. Both work really well when hot. We have found that optimum tyre selection is very dependent on car type.
I just didn't like the Toyo at all, didn't find it confidence inspiring and didn't feel as progressive in breakaway as the AR1. Combined with the fact the AR1 is cheaper and closer to the original Yoko control tyre sizing it was an obvious choice for us... Horses for courses n all... But, the interweb is littered with people saying the AR1 is better, not just me.
Yazza54 said:
What car do you run?
I just didn't like the Toyo at all, didn't find it confidence inspiring and didn't feel as progressive in breakaway as the AR1. Combined with the fact the AR1 is cheaper and closer to the original Yoko control tyre sizing it was an obvious choice for us... Horses for courses n all... But, the interweb is littered with people saying the AR1 is better, not just me.
Car on R888Rs is an BMW E30 2.0L which only has 140hp. It ran very successfully in the old Toyo P8R championship. It's ridiculously controllable and can be flung around with confidence. But that's just as much BMW chassis and set-up, as tyre influenced.I just didn't like the Toyo at all, didn't find it confidence inspiring and didn't feel as progressive in breakaway as the AR1. Combined with the fact the AR1 is cheaper and closer to the original Yoko control tyre sizing it was an obvious choice for us... Horses for courses n all... But, the interweb is littered with people saying the AR1 is better, not just me.
Given our good experience with AR1s (on car with over 500hp), I would happily use them on the BMW if availability or cost were advantageous. Also worth keeping an eye on latest offerings from Yokohama, cost permitting.
But overall we are discussing trackday tyres, not race championship rubber. The odd second per lap difference is not really significant.
bigothunter said:
Yazza54 said:
What car do you run?
I just didn't like the Toyo at all, didn't find it confidence inspiring and didn't feel as progressive in breakaway as the AR1. Combined with the fact the AR1 is cheaper and closer to the original Yoko control tyre sizing it was an obvious choice for us... Horses for courses n all... But, the interweb is littered with people saying the AR1 is better, not just me.
Car on R888Rs is an BMW E30 2.0L which only has 140hp. It ran very successfully in the old Toyo P8R championship. It's ridiculously controllable and can be flung around with confidence. But that's just as much BMW chassis and set-up, as tyre influenced.I just didn't like the Toyo at all, didn't find it confidence inspiring and didn't feel as progressive in breakaway as the AR1. Combined with the fact the AR1 is cheaper and closer to the original Yoko control tyre sizing it was an obvious choice for us... Horses for courses n all... But, the interweb is littered with people saying the AR1 is better, not just me.
Given our good experience with AR1s (on car with over 500hp), I would happily use them on the BMW if availability or cost were advantageous. Also worth keeping an eye on latest offerings from Yokohama, cost permitting.
But overall we are discussing trackday tyres, not race championship rubber. The odd second per lap difference is not really significant.
I thought we were talking hillclimb tyres going off the original post... So the clock matters!
bigothunter said:
Yazza54 said:
I thought we were talking hillclimb tyres going off the original post... So the clock matters!
Very soft compound is a huge advantage for sprinting/hillclimbing. Neither regular R888R or AR1 are suitable especially with a light car.Obviously a super duper soft slick and a set of tyre warmers would be best. Depends how serious you are.
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