Track cars - worth bothering?
Discussion
Hello.
My brother and I have been thinking about starting a new hobby, doing track days in our own track car.
Neither of us have ever really 'worked' on a car, so our ideas of which base car to buy and modify keeps changing, I suppose because we don't really know what we're doing. I/we don't have a racing licence etc, so we'll be limited on which track days we can do initially.
Cars-wise, we're thinking of either a 944 or a classic Mini, we've had both at various points as daily drivers, so we're at least familiar with those models. I'm volunteering this info as I expect some of you will tell me to think again. I'm open to hearing any other suggestions.
Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts), good beginner track days to attend which don't need fancy licences, what not to do, etc!
Thanks in advance!
My brother and I have been thinking about starting a new hobby, doing track days in our own track car.
Neither of us have ever really 'worked' on a car, so our ideas of which base car to buy and modify keeps changing, I suppose because we don't really know what we're doing. I/we don't have a racing licence etc, so we'll be limited on which track days we can do initially.
Cars-wise, we're thinking of either a 944 or a classic Mini, we've had both at various points as daily drivers, so we're at least familiar with those models. I'm volunteering this info as I expect some of you will tell me to think again. I'm open to hearing any other suggestions.
Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts), good beginner track days to attend which don't need fancy licences, what not to do, etc!
Thanks in advance!
At that budget a RenaultSport Clio might be a better choice. Tons about, make great track slags and loads of modification options. They always seem to go really well on the days I've been on.
If I were you I'd get on YouTube and learn how to change and maintain brakes and basic servicing as a minimum, it'll save you a fortune. Half the battle is just having the confidence to attempt it. If you have a friend who's handy, perhaps they could show you how easy it can be.
Also, don't forget to hire an instructor for a day or two.
Professional tuition makes a huge difference.
If I were you I'd get on YouTube and learn how to change and maintain brakes and basic servicing as a minimum, it'll save you a fortune. Half the battle is just having the confidence to attempt it. If you have a friend who's handy, perhaps they could show you how easy it can be.
Also, don't forget to hire an instructor for a day or two.
Professional tuition makes a huge difference.
I used to marshal at Bedford Autodrome. Aside from the very odd 'proper' track car, it was mostly just people pushing their slightly quick road cars a bit on the straights and then crapping themselves at the corners.
The people having the most fun were a couple of blokes who would turn up every time with a different crapbox hatchback they picked up for a few hundred quid and spent the whole day cornering on the door handles with zero sympathy, with the expectation of scrapping the car afterwards.
Personally, my suggestion would be to leave the £5k budget car for a bit, pick up something light and cheap, and just try a track day out first to see how much you enjoy it.
You don't need a racing licence of any sort for the vast majority of track days, you're not "racing".
The people having the most fun were a couple of blokes who would turn up every time with a different crapbox hatchback they picked up for a few hundred quid and spent the whole day cornering on the door handles with zero sympathy, with the expectation of scrapping the car afterwards.
Personally, my suggestion would be to leave the £5k budget car for a bit, pick up something light and cheap, and just try a track day out first to see how much you enjoy it.
You don't need a racing licence of any sort for the vast majority of track days, you're not "racing".
They aren't great choices to turn in to cheap track cars. 944s are fairly expensive now and even if you find a cheap one will cost too much to put on track.
As much as I love minis, unless your aiming to only visit very tight circuits it would be an awful trackday car.
You want something like a cheap hot hatch or an mx5, keep it as standard as you can to start with and then develop it over time. Spend circa 1k and get a trailer, you will regularly break it. Don't do what most people do and rip the interior etc. Out before doing any track days. If you don't enjoy it then you've ruined a car you could otherwise sell. Stripping it out wants to go hand in hand with suspension and tyre upgrades. But short term a standard car, well serviced, a decent set of sporty tyres on it and you'll have fun.
As much as I love minis, unless your aiming to only visit very tight circuits it would be an awful trackday car.
You want something like a cheap hot hatch or an mx5, keep it as standard as you can to start with and then develop it over time. Spend circa 1k and get a trailer, you will regularly break it. Don't do what most people do and rip the interior etc. Out before doing any track days. If you don't enjoy it then you've ruined a car you could otherwise sell. Stripping it out wants to go hand in hand with suspension and tyre upgrades. But short term a standard car, well serviced, a decent set of sporty tyres on it and you'll have fun.
I'd say forget any thinking of appreciation or depreciation. If you both get the bug, it will end up costing a lot of money over the years you do it, but so what? It's a hobby. And nice you can do it with your brother, in fact that's lovely!
Car wise, I'm sure it's been said a million times over, the MX5. Brilliant little thing and not too costly to modify in the grand scheme of things.
In fact, you could do as suggested above and buy a very cheap one for bugger all, track it a bit and see how you both feel then.
Car wise, I'm sure it's been said a million times over, the MX5. Brilliant little thing and not too costly to modify in the grand scheme of things.
In fact, you could do as suggested above and buy a very cheap one for bugger all, track it a bit and see how you both feel then.
Track days are absolutely fantastic fun. The important thing to remember is you're not there to race.
For any regular track day you do not require anything further than a UK driving licence. You'll go along in the morning of the track day and go through a drivers briefing. Here they'll explain the track, the correct etiquette (such as when and when not to overtake) and run through what the different colour flags mean (such as yellow meaning an incident has occurred and to slow down, red which means the session has been stopped, and black meaning you must return to the pits immediately-this could be due to your driving or possibly an issue with the car that you are unaware of).
Most track days operate on an 'open track' policy. This means you can go on and off the track as you wish. Others will do set stints.
As an owner of 6 past classic mini's and currently renovating another I would not recommend one as a track toy. They are expensive mechanically and expensive if you have an off.
Being new to track day You'll want something easy to maintain, easy to modify and easy to get parts for if the worst happens.
I would be looking down the Mx5/Clio 172/cheap hot hatch route.
Remember you'll need a helmet. I'd take some basic spares with you such as a tyre inflator, and wheel brace to ensure the wheel bolts remain tight.
Remove everything loose from the interior. Even a coke can is a,weapon when thrown around the interior. You definitely do not want anything rolling under the pedals......
Lastly, the best improvements you can make is to yourself. Pay for tuition and do it regularly - that will make more of a difference than anything else.
Make sure you have meat on your pads and tread on the tyres. I'd like a good set of pads (DS2500 is a good set of starting pads and not expensive) and decent tyres.
Keep on top of oil and water, don't chase that last 10th of a second and you'll have absolutely fantastic fun.your 5k budget will get you a great car from the suggested stable I mentioned above and be pretty reliable to boot.
Personally, I've been tracking Clio's for around 20 years (and I used to be sub editor and senior features writer for Performance French Car magazine) but no bias here - French hot hatches are really bloody brilliant things for getting into track days within a reasonable budget
For any regular track day you do not require anything further than a UK driving licence. You'll go along in the morning of the track day and go through a drivers briefing. Here they'll explain the track, the correct etiquette (such as when and when not to overtake) and run through what the different colour flags mean (such as yellow meaning an incident has occurred and to slow down, red which means the session has been stopped, and black meaning you must return to the pits immediately-this could be due to your driving or possibly an issue with the car that you are unaware of).
Most track days operate on an 'open track' policy. This means you can go on and off the track as you wish. Others will do set stints.
As an owner of 6 past classic mini's and currently renovating another I would not recommend one as a track toy. They are expensive mechanically and expensive if you have an off.
Being new to track day You'll want something easy to maintain, easy to modify and easy to get parts for if the worst happens.
I would be looking down the Mx5/Clio 172/cheap hot hatch route.
Remember you'll need a helmet. I'd take some basic spares with you such as a tyre inflator, and wheel brace to ensure the wheel bolts remain tight.
Remove everything loose from the interior. Even a coke can is a,weapon when thrown around the interior. You definitely do not want anything rolling under the pedals......
Lastly, the best improvements you can make is to yourself. Pay for tuition and do it regularly - that will make more of a difference than anything else.
Make sure you have meat on your pads and tread on the tyres. I'd like a good set of pads (DS2500 is a good set of starting pads and not expensive) and decent tyres.
Keep on top of oil and water, don't chase that last 10th of a second and you'll have absolutely fantastic fun.your 5k budget will get you a great car from the suggested stable I mentioned above and be pretty reliable to boot.
Personally, I've been tracking Clio's for around 20 years (and I used to be sub editor and senior features writer for Performance French Car magazine) but no bias here - French hot hatches are really bloody brilliant things for getting into track days within a reasonable budget
How many a year are you planning on doing? And how abusive do you want to be on track?
I try to do 4 or so a year and just use my modified daily car as I don’t think it’s worth all the extra hassle and cost for a second dedicated car. If I was rich with money and time and wanted to do a couple a month then maybe I would.
I push it hard on track but only do 20 minute sessions maybe 6 times a day that’s enough for me really and I know it’s my daily car and I need to drive it home.
They are great fun though and super addictive. I enjoy just being there also and mooching around the pits seeing what else has shown up, always end up chatting to new people etc it’s just an enjoyable day out.
Always see loads of clios, type r’s, mx5, old 3 series etc all cheap to buy/run, usually some decent priced track prepped ones for sale on the FB track day pages.
I try to do 4 or so a year and just use my modified daily car as I don’t think it’s worth all the extra hassle and cost for a second dedicated car. If I was rich with money and time and wanted to do a couple a month then maybe I would.
I push it hard on track but only do 20 minute sessions maybe 6 times a day that’s enough for me really and I know it’s my daily car and I need to drive it home.
They are great fun though and super addictive. I enjoy just being there also and mooching around the pits seeing what else has shown up, always end up chatting to new people etc it’s just an enjoyable day out.
Always see loads of clios, type r’s, mx5, old 3 series etc all cheap to buy/run, usually some decent priced track prepped ones for sale on the FB track day pages.
VladtheImpala said:
Hello.
My brother and I have been thinking about starting a new hobby, doing track days in our own track car.
Neither of us have ever really 'worked' on a car, so our ideas of which base car to buy and modify keeps changing, I suppose because we don't really know what we're doing. I/we don't have a racing licence etc, so we'll be limited on which track days we can do initially.
Cars-wise, we're thinking of either a 944 or a classic Mini, we've had both at various points as daily drivers, so we're at least familiar with those models. I'm volunteering this info as I expect some of you will tell me to think again. I'm open to hearing any other suggestions.
Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts), good beginner track days to attend which don't need fancy licences, what not to do, etc!
Thanks in advance!
My advice would be to do a load of multi car type track days first so that you can both establish if there is a particular type of car you enjoy tracking. My brother and I have been thinking about starting a new hobby, doing track days in our own track car.
Neither of us have ever really 'worked' on a car, so our ideas of which base car to buy and modify keeps changing, I suppose because we don't really know what we're doing. I/we don't have a racing licence etc, so we'll be limited on which track days we can do initially.
Cars-wise, we're thinking of either a 944 or a classic Mini, we've had both at various points as daily drivers, so we're at least familiar with those models. I'm volunteering this info as I expect some of you will tell me to think again. I'm open to hearing any other suggestions.
Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts), good beginner track days to attend which don't need fancy licences, what not to do, etc!
Thanks in advance!
At the moment neither of you actually know what type of car or even day you get the most enjoyment from.
For example, I find normal road cars really boring on tracks. I just stopped doing days as there wasn't enough fun involved. Then I did some single seater stuff and found it infinitely more exhilarating. Probably the best compromise for me would be a Caterham as it could be driven there, heavily abused, driven home and maintained at home.
Everyone is different so you need to learn what it is you enjoy before buying something that after one season sees you wanting to sell it and buy something else.
Have you thought about a Westfield? I tracked three of them. They are perfect for it on anything other than a very very fast track like silverstone or Thruxton (which you can't go on anyway).
- cheap as chips to buy
- easy to access all mechanicals
- light and easy to work on
- limitless spares as you'll be trawling parts bins from several different cars
- amazing round tighter courses like Cadwell etc, even llandow!
- minimal tyre wear (hardly any wieght on them)
- minimal brake wear - see above
Main downsides are wet days are not fun at all - apart from obviously being rained on, grip is a challenge on such light cars that are often shod in 888's or similar, and very fast tracks will see you run out of steam on the straights - but, unless you are racing, so what? :-)
- cheap as chips to buy
- easy to access all mechanicals
- light and easy to work on
- limitless spares as you'll be trawling parts bins from several different cars
- amazing round tighter courses like Cadwell etc, even llandow!
- minimal tyre wear (hardly any wieght on them)
- minimal brake wear - see above
Main downsides are wet days are not fun at all - apart from obviously being rained on, grip is a challenge on such light cars that are often shod in 888's or similar, and very fast tracks will see you run out of steam on the straights - but, unless you are racing, so what? :-)
It was a while ago but I bought a well used 'stockhatch' race car for track purposes - it came with loads of spares (like a whole road car), wheels and tyres and managed to negotiate on their trailer too.
Couple of years later I sold it all off (split as car and spares, wheels and what was left of tyres, and trailer)
Even if I had lost £1k it would have been money well spent, just lucky I bought a car that had some resale.
Couple of years later I sold it all off (split as car and spares, wheels and what was left of tyres, and trailer)
Even if I had lost £1k it would have been money well spent, just lucky I bought a car that had some resale.
A mate and I did this a couple of years ago with a £200 Puma we bought on eBay. We were never the quickest, but never the slowest either, but more importantly, we had an absolute blast.
About to do the same again. R53 Cooper S is the likely candidate. We don't want to put any more than a grand each in, and grotty ones of these start comfortably below that. And of course, we don't want to ruin a nice one.
It's a very enjoyable thing to do. Track days are not competitive, so you aren't there to beat others or set times. Just pick a car that handles nicely, is reasonably forgiving of ham fistedness, and has enough power not to be painful on the straights, and you'll have a blast. We enjoyed the Puma's chassis a lot more than we noticed its lack of straight line speed.
About to do the same again. R53 Cooper S is the likely candidate. We don't want to put any more than a grand each in, and grotty ones of these start comfortably below that. And of course, we don't want to ruin a nice one.
It's a very enjoyable thing to do. Track days are not competitive, so you aren't there to beat others or set times. Just pick a car that handles nicely, is reasonably forgiving of ham fistedness, and has enough power not to be painful on the straights, and you'll have a blast. We enjoyed the Puma's chassis a lot more than we noticed its lack of straight line speed.
What tracks are local to you? If its bedford, snetterton or donny you might pick a different car than if your local is cadwell park.
Personally if i had 5000 to spend on a track car, id say 3000 for the car, 500 for tyres (likely nankang ns2r) and 500 for some decent brakes. Then 1000 in reserve, or for chassis/ suspension mods.
And if it was my money, id go either a bmw 3 series, or a higher miles z4. Because i did, and it was awesome.
Personally if i had 5000 to spend on a track car, id say 3000 for the car, 500 for tyres (likely nankang ns2r) and 500 for some decent brakes. Then 1000 in reserve, or for chassis/ suspension mods.
And if it was my money, id go either a bmw 3 series, or a higher miles z4. Because i did, and it was awesome.
if you are new to track days, even the most modest of road cars will be enough for you. You won't need to mod it at all, as there will be as much as 10s a lap in the driver.
I'd take a known quantity that can handle reasonably well for a grand or two. Change brake fluid and brakes (upgraded front pads at least) then do a minor service, oil and filter. All this is noddy level spannering and you can do it with a haynes manual and a bit of you tubing.
Then send it out on track. Rinse and repeat keeping and eye on tyres, brakes, suspension components. A standard car will take a lot of abuse on track, it's not true that you have to mod it. Just change the oil and away you go.
I'd take a known quantity that can handle reasonably well for a grand or two. Change brake fluid and brakes (upgraded front pads at least) then do a minor service, oil and filter. All this is noddy level spannering and you can do it with a haynes manual and a bit of you tubing.
Then send it out on track. Rinse and repeat keeping and eye on tyres, brakes, suspension components. A standard car will take a lot of abuse on track, it's not true that you have to mod it. Just change the oil and away you go.
Niponeoff said:
Saxo, 106 handle decently.
Any cheap hot hatch will do
Too old now, parts are hard to come by.Any cheap hot hatch will do
My recommendation is a Mk6 Fiesta ST - that's exactly what we bought, and it's fantastic for the money. We did a year with the only mods being Mintex M1144s and decent brake fluid (ATE Typ200) and it's been pretty much flawless, and crazy cheap to run.
if you've already got a 135i, then put some reasonable brake pads in the front of that, check all the fluids are good and then take that on track and see how you get on. you wont even wear the tyres much if you keep an eye on the pressures and don't overheat them or slide them around.
if you're just starting out, keep your on track sessions short, do a nice warm up and (more importantly) a cool down lap, and don't put the handbrake on when you pit. and then be mechanically sympathetic, keep an eye on engine temps, don't overwork the tyres or the brakes and you'll be fine to start.
then once you've done a few you know a) if you even like it, b) what attributes you'd want a dedicated track car to have (speed, handling, noise, rwd/fwd, etc) and c) what you need to speed money upgrading.
if you're just starting out, keep your on track sessions short, do a nice warm up and (more importantly) a cool down lap, and don't put the handbrake on when you pit. and then be mechanically sympathetic, keep an eye on engine temps, don't overwork the tyres or the brakes and you'll be fine to start.
then once you've done a few you know a) if you even like it, b) what attributes you'd want a dedicated track car to have (speed, handling, noise, rwd/fwd, etc) and c) what you need to speed money upgrading.
VladtheImpala said:
Hello.
Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts),
Before you do. Ask yourself if you can afford to constantly replace the tyres and brake pads.Modifications-wise, we'll be using a mechanic we know for the difficult bits where we would probably end up ruining the car, so I'm not worried about getting anything wrong mechanically.
There's no real question, perhaps other than should I do any of this? I'd love to, but I've never heard of anyone even breaking even after building a track car (purely thinking about appreciation like if it was a road car, probably wrong to think like that right?). I'm wondering if it would end up being a very expensive mistake, especially as utility bills and petrol prices will probably never go down again.
Any tips are welcome, for which car to look at as a base (£5k budget there or thereabouts),
Also Mazda MX-5’s are a great handling track day car that can be cheap to buy.
Edited by Mr Miata on Friday 26th August 16:41
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff