Think it's time for my first TD... Some questions
Discussion
Hi all,
Looking to get my first TD under my belt in my own car. Sick of the jam packed roads of the South East and not being able to drive properly anywhere no matter how early or late you go out, so think it's time to hit the circuits! I've done the PEC a couple of times and a few experience days at Silverstone and the like, but nothing in my own car. I've got a 981 GTS and am going to get tuition for the whole day - I'll feel much more comfortable having an instructor ironing out the correct lines, braking zones and such like before I'm let loose alone
. I'm also going to do Bedford via MSVT on a novice only day.
I've put a quote through Grove & Dean and they want £295 for one day's insurance. Not sure how that compares. Initial gut feel was it felt a little high, but happy to advised otherwise. I put one through Insure My Track Day about a week ago, but they never even got back to me. I put the car value in at £55k, based on the average value of the 9 similar cars on AT, and filled in the rest of the form honestly.
My car's wearing Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric tyres which have loads of tread left on them, so I'm hoping they'll be good for the day. Given I'm lead to believe the lack of camber is an issue on road-going suspensions, resulting in the shoulders getting badly worn quickly, is adjusting the camber something you guys do in preparation, or just take the hit?
Brakes are steels and there's decent life in them, so assuming they'll be fine. I will get higher spec brake fluid though. On that note, a lot of the Porker specialists offer "track prep" services - would something like this be recommended? EDIT: Actually, these seem more GT car specific.
Is renting gloves and a helmut something I can do whilst I'm there?
I've read the PH guide and a number of threads on tyre pressures, so I've got my own tyre pressure reader and compressor to take with me. I also have some spare Mobil 1 oil from the car's previous service.
Think that's it. Thanks all.
Any comments greatly appreciated.
Looking to get my first TD under my belt in my own car. Sick of the jam packed roads of the South East and not being able to drive properly anywhere no matter how early or late you go out, so think it's time to hit the circuits! I've done the PEC a couple of times and a few experience days at Silverstone and the like, but nothing in my own car. I've got a 981 GTS and am going to get tuition for the whole day - I'll feel much more comfortable having an instructor ironing out the correct lines, braking zones and such like before I'm let loose alone
. I'm also going to do Bedford via MSVT on a novice only day. I've put a quote through Grove & Dean and they want £295 for one day's insurance. Not sure how that compares. Initial gut feel was it felt a little high, but happy to advised otherwise. I put one through Insure My Track Day about a week ago, but they never even got back to me. I put the car value in at £55k, based on the average value of the 9 similar cars on AT, and filled in the rest of the form honestly.
My car's wearing Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric tyres which have loads of tread left on them, so I'm hoping they'll be good for the day. Given I'm lead to believe the lack of camber is an issue on road-going suspensions, resulting in the shoulders getting badly worn quickly, is adjusting the camber something you guys do in preparation, or just take the hit?
Brakes are steels and there's decent life in them, so assuming they'll be fine. I will get higher spec brake fluid though. On that note, a lot of the Porker specialists offer "track prep" services - would something like this be recommended? EDIT: Actually, these seem more GT car specific.
Is renting gloves and a helmut something I can do whilst I'm there?
I've read the PH guide and a number of threads on tyre pressures, so I've got my own tyre pressure reader and compressor to take with me. I also have some spare Mobil 1 oil from the car's previous service.
Think that's it. Thanks all.
Any comments greatly appreciated.
Edited by david-j8694 on Friday 15th July 10:09
First off, have a fantastic time. but I warn you, this can be an addictive and expensive hobby.
Helmet hire stopped during covid, so check in advance if that's an option. I've got a Sparco Club X1, which is as cheap as the come, but really comfortable to wear with glasses. For gloves, I'd only bother if you've got a suede or alacantra wheel.
As for things to take, I'd recommend a good torque wrench and socket set to check your wheel bolt torque when the wheels are cold. I've only seen one car lose a wheel, but it's an expensive and easily avoidable mistake.
As for the tyres, a friend had eagle AS 5's at a warm track day at Snetterton on an Impreza, and he did find they struggled with the heat. They're a great performance road tyre (I've had them on many dailies over the years) but I think they struggle at the extremes of performance. Bedford has a lot of hairpins and long straights; multiple heaving braking and full throttle acceleration points per lap which translates to being hard on tyres and brakes.
You're doing the right thing about having an instructor, they can really help manage your driving style so your are fast and smooth, which really helps manages heat throughout the car. Novice days also tend to have time limited sessions, which will also benefit tyre and brake wear.
As for trackday insurance, it might be worth calling A Plan and Morris.
Helmet hire stopped during covid, so check in advance if that's an option. I've got a Sparco Club X1, which is as cheap as the come, but really comfortable to wear with glasses. For gloves, I'd only bother if you've got a suede or alacantra wheel.
As for things to take, I'd recommend a good torque wrench and socket set to check your wheel bolt torque when the wheels are cold. I've only seen one car lose a wheel, but it's an expensive and easily avoidable mistake.
As for the tyres, a friend had eagle AS 5's at a warm track day at Snetterton on an Impreza, and he did find they struggled with the heat. They're a great performance road tyre (I've had them on many dailies over the years) but I think they struggle at the extremes of performance. Bedford has a lot of hairpins and long straights; multiple heaving braking and full throttle acceleration points per lap which translates to being hard on tyres and brakes.
You're doing the right thing about having an instructor, they can really help manage your driving style so your are fast and smooth, which really helps manages heat throughout the car. Novice days also tend to have time limited sessions, which will also benefit tyre and brake wear.
As for trackday insurance, it might be worth calling A Plan and Morris.
firstly, good choice! you'll have an awesome time.
theres lots to be said about your first trackday - but i'll stick with just one point - Heat Management. brakes get hot, tyres get hot, the car will get hot, the driver gets hot!
normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
theres lots to be said about your first trackday - but i'll stick with just one point - Heat Management. brakes get hot, tyres get hot, the car will get hot, the driver gets hot!
normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
phazed said:
Insurance, your quote sounds excessive. I would shop around.
As an aside, do many people bother with TD insurance? It is my understanding that the insurance covers you only and not any third parties.
If that is correct and you have faith in your driving...
He is taking a 981 GTS, of course he will quite rightly insure it.As an aside, do many people bother with TD insurance? It is my understanding that the insurance covers you only and not any third parties.
If that is correct and you have faith in your driving...
brillomaster said:
firstly, good choice! you'll have an awesome time.
theres lots to be said about your first trackday - but i'll stick with just one point - Heat Management. brakes get hot, tyres get hot, the car will get hot, the driver gets hot!
normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
All valid points and I’d add that be very careful on your first lap out on any session after your first, particularly on the hairpin after the pit exit: tyres get a bit of build up and can feel very loose until warmed up / cleaned off.theres lots to be said about your first trackday - but i'll stick with just one point - Heat Management. brakes get hot, tyres get hot, the car will get hot, the driver gets hot!
normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
Try and keep to 10-15 mins sessions until you’re comfortable and you’re happy the car is okay. Tyres and brakes will last just fine.
Having said that and everything others have said, Bedford is a great very safe enjoyable track.
Have a great day!
phazed said:
Insurance, your quote sounds excessive. I would shop around.
As an aside, do many people bother with TD insurance? It is my understanding that the insurance covers you only and not any third parties.
If that is correct and you have faith in your driving...
Doesn’t always have to be a lack of talent on your part. Could have someone drop fluid in front of you or spin in front or even hit you. As an aside, do many people bother with TD insurance? It is my understanding that the insurance covers you only and not any third parties.
If that is correct and you have faith in your driving...
Track insurance will only cover your own car but I think even the wealthy would rather spend a few quid on possibly unnecessary insurance than risk losing a £60k or more car.
On this front OP. If you are looking to do a few trackdays per year then consider binning off your current road cover and insure with a policy that covers track use from a specialist.
My policies let me have 5/6 days a year covered and the premium is hardly any more than without, track cover is worth about £1400 a year on mine and my whole premium is only £600 on a £60k car
Thanks for all the replies guys. Just picking up on a few specific points...
I can easily account for a grand already, which means it'll almost certainly be more. Oh well... You can't take it with you. I'll also grab that helmet, too!
Cambs_Stuart said:
First off, have a fantastic time. but I warn you, this can be an addictive and expensive hobby.
Helmet hire stopped during covid, so check in advance if that's an option. I've got a Sparco Club X1, which is as cheap as the come, but really comfortable to wear with glasses. For gloves, I'd only bother if you've got a suede or alacantra wheel.
As for things to take, I'd recommend a good torque wrench and socket set to check your wheel bolt torque when the wheels are cold. I've only seen one car lose a wheel, but it's an expensive and easily avoidable mistake.
manages heat throughout the car. Novice days also tend to have time limited sessions, which will also benefit tyre and brake wear.
As for trackday insurance, it might be worth calling A Plan and Morris.
Absolutely looking like an expensive hobby Helmet hire stopped during covid, so check in advance if that's an option. I've got a Sparco Club X1, which is as cheap as the come, but really comfortable to wear with glasses. For gloves, I'd only bother if you've got a suede or alacantra wheel.
As for things to take, I'd recommend a good torque wrench and socket set to check your wheel bolt torque when the wheels are cold. I've only seen one car lose a wheel, but it's an expensive and easily avoidable mistake.
manages heat throughout the car. Novice days also tend to have time limited sessions, which will also benefit tyre and brake wear.
As for trackday insurance, it might be worth calling A Plan and Morris.
I can easily account for a grand already, which means it'll almost certainly be more. Oh well... You can't take it with you. I'll also grab that helmet, too!brillomaster said:
theres lots to be said about your first trackday - but i'll stick with just one point - Heat Management. brakes get hot, tyres get hot, the car will get hot, the driver gets hot!
normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
This makes sense. That again is where I'm hoping an instructor will help - tyres, brakes, my own physical/mental state, etc. An objective observer who'll stop me getting overly excited normally, problems arise when you push further than your equipment allows. if brakes get hot, they'll start to fade, not perform optimally - time to come in. if tyres get hot, they'll loose grip and start to slide - time to come in. if car gets hot, temps might rise, oil breaks down - time to come in. most track car modifications are primarily to increase the tolerance of parts to heat, so you can push harder for longer, and have consistent performance.
i suspect with standard tyres and brakes, the tyres will be the limiting factor. when you do a session, do a warm up lap, a few push laps, and then a cool down lap. tyre pressures will likely go up 7psi when the get hot, so you'll need to bring them down, and then reinflate for the drive home.
RB Will said:
On this front OP. If you are looking to do a few trackdays per year then consider binning off your current road cover and insure with a policy that covers track use from a specialist.
My policies let me have 5/6 days a year covered and the premium is hardly any more than without, track cover is worth about £1400 a year on mine and my whole premium is only £600 on a £60k car
I got another quote back from Moris, and they want £265 for a day. That's about half my yearly premium for one day, which again, trying not to sound tight but it seems a little necky. I'm with Admiral, so I think I'll take your advice and give them a call. Worst they can say is no. And I can re-assess come renewal time.My policies let me have 5/6 days a year covered and the premium is hardly any more than without, track cover is worth about £1400 a year on mine and my whole premium is only £600 on a £60k car
Fast and Spurious said:
Don't forget to keep well away from Audi diesel estates driven by driving gods. They'll overtake you on the corners while pumping out their "diesel power" soundtrack.
This is unintentionally a good point: you’ll have an instructor so they should raise it but you may at first be faster on the straights than many but a fair bit slower than some cars on the corners. If you find someone is struggling to get past on the straights but up your chuff on the corners give a little lift or don’t accelerate quite as hard so they can get past and on with their day. Saves on frustration all round whether it’s a diesel estate or a hot hatch. Insurance wise they charge more per day the less you do generally. So it may be 250/300 for 1 day but if you try and booked 3 or 4 days at once they may charge you not much at all. My car is not even 25% the value of yours but insurers usually want about 100 quid on a per day basis from me but if I pay for a block of pre booked 5 days at once they'll usually do all of them for about 180/200 so 35/40 per day then as opposed to 100. So if your planning on trying a couple circuits to start with might be better to just book a few days even if you have no dates yet!
Equipment wise you can bring as much or as little as you want. Most important things in my opinion are (and in this order): lots of hydrating drinks food and sugary sweets as it can be a tiring day especially mentally, tyre pressure guage, torque wrench, a camping chair. Most people disregard the drinks and food bit but personally I think your mental alertness and state of mind is by far the most important thing hence a good night sleep and good quality drinks and brain food are always my priority.
Anything else can be borrowed as most people are always happy to lend a hand and I've found will usually offer their help before you ask for it.
If you mention the dates you book on to as well someone on here may also be going and could find yourself with a "buddy" to help you out throughout the day as well.
A lot of work does go into these days sometimes but enjoying a car no matter what it is while on the limit on a circuit is one of the best feelings ever as you will soon find out so it makes it all worth it! Enjoy.
Equipment wise you can bring as much or as little as you want. Most important things in my opinion are (and in this order): lots of hydrating drinks food and sugary sweets as it can be a tiring day especially mentally, tyre pressure guage, torque wrench, a camping chair. Most people disregard the drinks and food bit but personally I think your mental alertness and state of mind is by far the most important thing hence a good night sleep and good quality drinks and brain food are always my priority.
Anything else can be borrowed as most people are always happy to lend a hand and I've found will usually offer their help before you ask for it.
If you mention the dates you book on to as well someone on here may also be going and could find yourself with a "buddy" to help you out throughout the day as well.
A lot of work does go into these days sometimes but enjoying a car no matter what it is while on the limit on a circuit is one of the best feelings ever as you will soon find out so it makes it all worth it! Enjoy.
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