Braking advice and WWYD?

[Clarkgti]

Since last track day I boiled the fluid and glazed the front pads ( Ebc rp-1). Fluid changed easily enough. The discs themselves had some glazed looking areas here and there and some new grooves and the pads had about 20-40% of the surface glazed. I've sanded down the discs and pads with 60 grit, and just re Bedded them, braking feels for sure better than it was pre de-glazing but still not perfect like it's about 80% there.

Next track day is very soon, should I :
- keep trying to bed them in and/or expect a short session on circuit to get them back to 100%?
- swap the pads out for spares I have in the shed?
- go and quickly grab a set of discs and put the spare pads on as well for a like for like but brand new setup?

Bbk is coming later this year but for now I need to manage this setup.

[EddyP]

You need to get some better ventilation to them to try and cool them, can you get any ducting in to blow some air onto them?
What fluid are you using? you want something with a really high boiling point, we only use AP600/AP2.

[Cambs_Stuart]

As above, how easily could you fit some cooling? I'd also look at some really high temp brake fluid (Motul RBF660 is pretty good).
What kind of brake discs are you using? Vented, grooved etc?
The other option would be to get some tuition and describe the issue you're seeing, to see if there any tips you can get to extend the brake life.

[Clarkgti]

Thanks guys but I'm quite experienced and I'm already using rbf660 and I have just installed ducting. I'm not asking about a cooler setup as I already know my setup needs upgrading I'm wondering what to do about discs and pads combo over the next few days, whether to persevere or if these are signs that they're dead and to go and swiftly get a new set of discs and pads on there.

[brillomaster]

personally, i'd probably persevere with the pads and discs you have on at the moment. sounds like they're nearly there, one warm up session on the circuit and they'll be back to their best. Assuming the current pads still have plenty of material left on them.

But then, my usual brake pad pattern is to use them until they're down to the backing plate, and then replace. decent brake pads are expensive, i like to get my moneys worth.

surely if you put in new pads, you'll need to go out and bed them in too? even more so if you need to bed new discs in as well.

[Cambs_Stuart]

Clarkgti said:

Thanks guys but I'm quite experienced and I'm already using rbf660 and I have just installed ducting. I'm not asking about a cooler setup as I already know my setup needs upgrading I'm wondering what to do about discs and pads combo over the next few days, whether to persevere or if these are signs that they're dead and to go and swiftly get a new set of discs and pads on there.

By the sound of things I think you'll be replacing the pads and discs relatively soon anyway. How would you feel about swapping pads and discs out during a track day? I've done it before over a lunchtime, but it was a sweaty, stressful PITA.
If budget was no limit what would you do? Are there other pad/disc combos you'd like to try?

[braddo]

Keep the same setup, do shorter sessions, look to improve cooling more, take a tuition session and ask them about braking technique.

Given you're using track-suitable pads and fluid and still getting overheating, a big brake kit is not necessarily going to fix the issue, so I would say cooling and technique should be looked at in advance of that.

When these issues come up I always think back to the Rent4Ring Swift I hired years ago - they ran standard discs (and calipers, I think) but with Endless pads, and the performance was absolutely outstanding. As in, literally unbelievable until experienced!

[E-bmw]

Clarkgti said:

Since last track day I boiled the fluid and glazed the front pads ( Ebc rp-1). Fluid changed easily enough. The discs themselves had some glazed looking areas here and there and some new grooves and the pads had about 20-40% of the surface glazed. I've sanded down the discs and pads with 60 grit, and just re Bedded them, braking feels for sure better than it was pre de-glazing but still not perfect like it's about 80% there.

Next track day is very soon, should I :
- keep trying to bed them in and/or expect a short session on circuit to get them back to 100%?
- swap the pads out for spares I have in the shed?
- go and quickly grab a set of discs and put the spare pads on as well for a like for like but brand new setup?

Bbk is coming later this year but for now I need to manage this setup.

It depends on when Later this year is for me.

I would be tempted to go for a new set of pads & discs if you will get anything like the benefit from them as otherwise you may well be fighting a losing battle which will mean you aren't enjoying the days.

[Clarkgti]

So the std setup is well known to be crap for track use, single pot caliper 312mm discs on a 1400kg car. It's usually the first thing people upgrade but my budget has had to go elsewhere lately, I just need to manage it better while I've still got this setup which I can do easily enough.

I'm now tempted to just go and bring some spare pads just incase and assume the discs are OK and if they are junk well it's a lesson learnt for next time. While I've got good experience in the drivers seat on circuit and working on the car, track day maintenance and the issues it can cause is a new concept to me.

[phazed]

Have I missed it? What car is this on?

[Clarkgti]

phazed said:

Have I missed it? What car is this on?

Mk5 golf gti, almost full weight still running 260bhp.

[Cambs_Stuart]

Most people will help out with emergency track day maintenance if you get stuck. Just remember to bring everything you might need. Losing a caliper slider pin, brake pad clip or rounding a bolt when you have to drive home is a bit stressful.

[phazed]

Clarkgti said:

phazed said:

Have I missed it? What car is this on?

Mk5 golf gti, almost full weight still running 260bhp.

I run my MK1 Skoda vRS track, (MK4 golf mechanics) car still on standard brakes, single pot, HT fluid, Tarox discs and DS2500’s. On track all day never a problem. Yes, only 1200 kg and 245 bhp.

I have some 4 pots to fit in winter but no rush.

The point is, with the right components they are more than adequate for the job.

[Clarkgti]

phazed said:

Clarkgti said:

phazed said:

Have I missed it? What car is this on?

Mk5 golf gti, almost full weight still running 260bhp.

I run my MK1 Skoda vRS track, (MK4 golf mechanics) car still on standard brakes, single pot, HT fluid, Tarox discs and DS2500’s. On track all day never a problem. Yes, only 1200 kg and 245 bhp.

I have some 4 pots to fit in winter but no rush.

The point is, with the right components they are more than adequate for the job.

Disagree. If you've not run the car then you can't really say they can or they can't. I know they can't handle the length of sessions I want to run, so does everyone else who tracks and races them. Debating the current setup is not the purpose of this post anyway so..

[a7x88]

As soon as you said 312mm I had a feeling it was going to be a MK5.

I had them on my 380bhp edition 30. They are just too small and were easily overheated.

I put the cheap upgrade of R32 front and rear brakes on mine, with TTS discs. They are not fancy and unfortunately not the lightest but they are more than up to the job. Set of brembo discs, DS2500 pads and some ATE type 200 fluid and I had zero fade at Bedford the other week.

I would drive around the issue with your current setup - save the money you would spend on new discs and pads and put it towards an upgrade.

[Clarkgti]

a7x88 said:

As soon as you said 312mm I had a feeling it was going to be a MK5.

I had them on my 380bhp edition 30. They are just too small and were easily overheated.

I put the cheap upgrade of R32 front and rear brakes on mine, with TTS discs. They are not fancy and unfortunately not the lightest but they are more than up to the job. Set of brembo discs, DS2500 pads and some ATE type 200 fluid and I had zero fade at Bedford the other week.

I would drive around the issue with your current setup - save the money you would spend on new discs and pads and put it towards an upgrade.

Yeah them or the golf r calipers are on the agenda or a possibly the megane brembos for a smidge more. Yeah that what I'm thinking, manage it, save up and get something nice and efficient Later.

[Krikkit]

Clarkgti said:

phazed said:

Clarkgti said:

phazed said:

Have I missed it? What car is this on?

Mk5 golf gti, almost full weight still running 260bhp.

I run my MK1 Skoda vRS track, (MK4 golf mechanics) car still on standard brakes, single pot, HT fluid, Tarox discs and DS2500’s. On track all day never a problem. Yes, only 1200 kg and 245 bhp.

I have some 4 pots to fit in winter but no rush.

The point is, with the right components they are more than adequate for the job.

Disagree. If you've not run the car then you can't really say they can or they can't. I know they can't handle the length of sessions I want to run, so does everyone else who tracks and races them. Debating the current setup is not the purpose of this post anyway so..

Hang on, aren't they the same brakes?

[Clarkgti]

No, different brakes, different car.

[phazed]

All very similar as they are all VAG

[Krikkit]

A bit of googling suggests they're identical which isn't surprising.

If you've got them cooled, decent pads and fluid, and they're still overheating then perhaps a diet for the car (even if temporary)?