What do people think of doing `experience' track days?
Discussion
I ask this question, because I recently did a track day experience (Birthday gift) where I got to drive a few of my `bucket list' cars, and it was extremely well organized, and enjoyable.
It struck me that very few of us ordinary mortals, would ever be able to drive the cars involved to the max, for a number of reasons. I think that some approach these events, with the idea that they are going to break track records, but for me it was just the fun of driving something that I would not otherwise get the chance to even sit in, let alone drive.
1. They were not my cars, and since I wouldn't want to damage my own cars, let alone someone else's by driving them stupidly, I would be very cautious about over driving them,
2. When anyone gets into a high performance car, where they know nothing about its acceleration, handling, braking etc, it would be best to treat it with respect until its characteristics are better known.
3. On a track which a person has never driven, it would be best to learn the track, turn in, apex, and exit points before giving it the beans.
4. Since the vehicles being used are going to be needed for quite a few other drivers, the organizers cannot have a situation where the cars are damaged, by someone who `believes' they are the next Verstappen or Hamilton.
The company I was with had a no spin / or off the track policy, where the person who did this was immediately asked to leave the venue. which I completely agree with.
As a consequence I went round a lot slower than I would, if I was in in one of my own cars, but it was still an enjoyable learning experience, even if I did not take the cars I used, to the max. Would this be enough to make doing `experience' days worthwhile in people point of view?
It struck me that very few of us ordinary mortals, would ever be able to drive the cars involved to the max, for a number of reasons. I think that some approach these events, with the idea that they are going to break track records, but for me it was just the fun of driving something that I would not otherwise get the chance to even sit in, let alone drive.
1. They were not my cars, and since I wouldn't want to damage my own cars, let alone someone else's by driving them stupidly, I would be very cautious about over driving them,
2. When anyone gets into a high performance car, where they know nothing about its acceleration, handling, braking etc, it would be best to treat it with respect until its characteristics are better known.
3. On a track which a person has never driven, it would be best to learn the track, turn in, apex, and exit points before giving it the beans.
4. Since the vehicles being used are going to be needed for quite a few other drivers, the organizers cannot have a situation where the cars are damaged, by someone who `believes' they are the next Verstappen or Hamilton.
The company I was with had a no spin / or off the track policy, where the person who did this was immediately asked to leave the venue. which I completely agree with.
As a consequence I went round a lot slower than I would, if I was in in one of my own cars, but it was still an enjoyable learning experience, even if I did not take the cars I used, to the max. Would this be enough to make doing `experience' days worthwhile in people point of view?
I have had a few as gifts and they have all been fun but yes, its rare that you can actually drive fast.
The last one I did was in three cars, the first in an F430, the 'instructor' kept on braking for me in one bend and kept on telling me to slow down 'its a an experience not a race !"
The second and third cars, were different, the instructors were very relaxed and let me push the car to the point of sliding the Aston and braking where I wanted to in the Murcielago. The last one even offered me a job
The only one that was really in depth was the 90 minute session at the Porsche Experience Silverstone.
Thrashing a 997 GT3 RS and being given time to actually really learn to push the car was great fun.
The last one I did was in three cars, the first in an F430, the 'instructor' kept on braking for me in one bend and kept on telling me to slow down 'its a an experience not a race !"
The second and third cars, were different, the instructors were very relaxed and let me push the car to the point of sliding the Aston and braking where I wanted to in the Murcielago. The last one even offered me a job
The only one that was really in depth was the 90 minute session at the Porsche Experience Silverstone.
Thrashing a 997 GT3 RS and being given time to actually really learn to push the car was great fun.
I was given one of these days as a gift. Also had different experiences on the same day. I’m not a racer, but definitely confident enough to drive most things and plenty of track experience under the belt. Was happily sliding a GT3 around corners with one guy who was fine to let me crack on while having a chat. Swapped cars and the chap in the 570S was grabbing the wheel from me and shouting ‘brake’ before I’d even come off the throttle.
All round a good experience and totally understand that they are in a tricky position of self and vehicle preservation with a bunch of randoms.
All round a good experience and totally understand that they are in a tricky position of self and vehicle preservation with a bunch of randoms.
Gary C said:
I have had a few as gifts and they have all been fun but yes, its rare that you can actually drive fast.
The last one I did was in three cars, the first in an F430, the 'instructor' kept on braking for me in one bend and kept on telling me to slow down 'its a an experience not a race !"
The second and third cars, were different, the instructors were very relaxed and let me push the car to the point of sliding the Aston and braking where I wanted to in the Murcielago. The last one even offered me a job
The only one that was really in depth was the 90 minute session at the Porsche Experience Silverstone.
Thrashing a 997 GT3 RS and being given time to actually really learn to push the car was great fun.
The last one I did was in three cars, the first in an F430, the 'instructor' kept on braking for me in one bend and kept on telling me to slow down 'its a an experience not a race !"
The second and third cars, were different, the instructors were very relaxed and let me push the car to the point of sliding the Aston and braking where I wanted to in the Murcielago. The last one even offered me a job
The only one that was really in depth was the 90 minute session at the Porsche Experience Silverstone.
Thrashing a 997 GT3 RS and being given time to actually really learn to push the car was great fun.
Looked at from both sides, it is understandable why the instructors must start out on any drive with a degree of caution, they have themselves, the car, and the person doing the driving to take care of.
Not forgetting that there are going to be quite a number of other people waiting for `their' chance to drive the car in question, (Who wont be best pleased, if a f*ckwit who actually believes he is the next Hamilton, or Verstappen (but who really is not) stacks the car they were going to drive)
The Instructors seem to be quite good at sussing out those who are able to take instruction, and handle the car, at which point they ease off a bit, and let the person driving go a bit faster, As you correctly point out it is not a race, but a driving experience, but some dont seem to be able to understand that.
There have been too many cases of said f*ckwits who `think' they are driving gods, stacking a supercar they hired for a wedding / special occasion.
If some one wants to drive fast properly, an ARDs course is the way to go.
I have done several Porsche experience days at Silverstone, and they do get to know you, to the extent that they push you a bit out of your comfort zone.
On one occasion, In a 911, I was asked to accelerate as hard as possible to a marker point and then brake as hard as possible before hitting a boundary fence (which seemed impossibly close to the marker point), `Without' touching the steering wheel, The car performed beautifully, but it was ALL I could do to stop my mitts flapping up, around the steering wheel. A pretty well unforgettable `experience'.
I had my first experience of track driving on Saturday at Thruxton. Not high end supercar stuff, but a couple of things that I wanted to have a go in.
Cayman - 3 laps - Getting used to how a car feels on track. Instructor was helping with track position, turn in points etc. No holding back and let me hurt the car as much as I wanted.
Mustang 5.0 - 4 laps - Far more agricultural than the Cayman. Instructor was getting me to properly push the car and ensure I used all of the track. There was no short shifting and made me hold near the redline through corners rather than change up.
Single seater - 5 laps - No luxury or finesse here!! 4 speed and limited revs to 4500. Great fun through the corners, but seriously lacking in top end as you had to ease of the throttle around half of the track to avoid bouncing of the limiter.
I enjoyed it and got out of it what I wanted. I was surprised by the instructors encouraging pushing it, but that might be dependent on how confident they are with your driving.
Cayman - 3 laps - Getting used to how a car feels on track. Instructor was helping with track position, turn in points etc. No holding back and let me hurt the car as much as I wanted.
Mustang 5.0 - 4 laps - Far more agricultural than the Cayman. Instructor was getting me to properly push the car and ensure I used all of the track. There was no short shifting and made me hold near the redline through corners rather than change up.
Single seater - 5 laps - No luxury or finesse here!! 4 speed and limited revs to 4500. Great fun through the corners, but seriously lacking in top end as you had to ease of the throttle around half of the track to avoid bouncing of the limiter.
I enjoyed it and got out of it what I wanted. I was surprised by the instructors encouraging pushing it, but that might be dependent on how confident they are with your driving.
I did a couple of experience days which were a real mixed bag. I had one instructor in a Nissan GTR who really encouraged me to push on, radioing other instructors to get out the way, getting me to trail brake into corners etc. But he was an exception. Most times it's very clear that looking after the cars is the first priority: changing up at 3,000 rpm, easy and early on the brakes etc, cone chicanes on long straights. Which is understandable, the cars are very expensive, they have no idea of the divers ability or experience, plus the days are often very busy so red flags, circuit closures and broken machinery would really impact the scheduling.
The best experience day drive I had on a circuit was in a Clio 197 at brand hatch. I swapped 3 laps in a supercar for 10 laps in the Clio, and the instructor really encouraged me to hammer that car. We went past all the other drivers in supercars.
Soon after that I bought my own Clio (a 172) and started doing track days by myself. That first day out at Snetterton in my own car was amazing. The thrill of sitting in the pitlane, lining up with all the other drivers waiting to go out will stay with me forever. If I ever find myself in a position to do so I'll take an ARDS test and enter a cheap race series.
The best experience day drive I had on a circuit was in a Clio 197 at brand hatch. I swapped 3 laps in a supercar for 10 laps in the Clio, and the instructor really encouraged me to hammer that car. We went past all the other drivers in supercars.
Soon after that I bought my own Clio (a 172) and started doing track days by myself. That first day out at Snetterton in my own car was amazing. The thrill of sitting in the pitlane, lining up with all the other drivers waiting to go out will stay with me forever. If I ever find myself in a position to do so I'll take an ARDS test and enter a cheap race series.
did a drift limits day in the pouring rain a couple of years ago... they wouldnt let me out in my preferred car (a lambo super trofeo) because firstly, the aforementioned deluge, and secondly, i didnt physically fit in it. So did 14 laps in an audi R8 v10, which was mega. pushed as hard as i dared really, first time i braked hard for the hairpin i had all the ABS firing, second lap the instructor asked me to try and brake up to the point of ABS kicking in, which i duly did. Afterwards he commended me for good braking. turns out while i was lapping someone else had to pull over to let me past, so that was decent.
would love to go back in the dry to try a few cars actually, but yeah, given it was chucking it down, i still got a decent drive in and the instructor generally let me get on with it which was great.
would love to go back in the dry to try a few cars actually, but yeah, given it was chucking it down, i still got a decent drive in and the instructor generally let me get on with it which was great.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Looked at from both sides, it is understandable why the instructors must start out on any drive with a degree of caution, they have themselves, the car, and the person doing the driving to take care of.
Oh I get it. It must be terrifying if your of a nervous nature The other two drivers were happy as soon as I turned into the first corner, the first was braking with the dual controls miles before the corner and just could not settle with me. He was older than the other two and was a bit grouchy, the other two were very complimentary on my driving (as I said, one said I should join them as they were looking for instructors).
Did another in an F355 and coming down the hangar straight, along side another F355, my instructor was determined we were going to outbrake the other car. Flat out in top with mine looking left at the other car shouting 'keep it in, keep it in, keep it in ........... annnnnndddd BRAKE'
Great fun
Did a two day course in Wales driving Mk2 Escorts in a forest, now that was fun too.
I was already doing track days when my wife offered me an experience day at Silverstone for my birthday.
Luckily she gave me the choice of which experience, but was amazed when I opted for a half day in an Exige over driving 5 supercars for a few laps each.
So no, I have still never driven any of the recognised supercars, and probably never will.
But that Exige was a hoot, especially with enough time to really get to grips with it.
Luckily she gave me the choice of which experience, but was amazed when I opted for a half day in an Exige over driving 5 supercars for a few laps each.
So no, I have still never driven any of the recognised supercars, and probably never will.
But that Exige was a hoot, especially with enough time to really get to grips with it.
Gary C said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Looked at from both sides, it is understandable why the instructors must start out on any drive with a degree of caution, they have themselves, the car, and the person doing the driving to take care of.
Oh I get it. It must be terrifying if your of a nervous nature The other two drivers were happy as soon as I turned into the first corner, the first was braking with the dual controls miles before the corner and just could not settle with me. He was older than the other two and was a bit grouchy, the other two were very complimentary on my driving (as I said, one said I should join them as they were looking for instructors).
Did another in an F355 and coming down the hangar straight, along side another F355, my instructor was determined we were going to outbrake the other car. Flat out in top with mine looking left at the other car shouting 'keep it in, keep it in, keep it in ........... annnnnndddd BRAKE'
Great fun
Did a two day course in Wales driving Mk2 Escorts in a forest, now that was fun too.
(Unlike a friend of mine, who drove like a f*ckwit on the mistaken basis, that he was a driving god, and `he' was paying for the experience) They asked him to get out of the car, and leave the venue. which I could do nothing but agree with.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Did you mean the instructor, or the person doing the driving, having a `nervous' nature? These instructors are driving these high performance cars day in, day out (Nice job if you can get it!) so they seem to be able to make judgements fairly quickly, about the driving ability of the people they take around, and adjust their attitudes accordingly
(Unlike a friend of mine, who drove like a f*ckwit on the mistaken basis, that he was a driving god, and `he' was paying for the experience) They asked him to get out of the car, and leave the venue. which I could do nothing but agree with.
I mean the instructor(Unlike a friend of mine, who drove like a f*ckwit on the mistaken basis, that he was a driving god, and `he' was paying for the experience) They asked him to get out of the car, and leave the venue. which I could do nothing but agree with.
Hence, instructor one was frightened, instructor two was very complimentary about my driving, instructor three offered me a job.
I did one on a bit of a mickey mouse track, but with some decent cars. The instructors were, with only one exception, happy to let us push our limits and could tell who could drive and who couldn't. I've had instruction from racing drivers and JLR's dynamics experts and without exception, they've been able to tell straight away who's capable and who's a liability.
The exception was in the Impreza blobeye, and I'd owned one for a few years and sold it not long before, so it was entirely familiar to me - I jumped in and got on it. The instructor had been with me in the skid control car so knew I wasn't a monkey, but nevertheless jumped on his set of brakes into the first cone chicane saying "let's calm it down a bit shall we" so I cruised round the rest of the lap at low revs and parked it. Told the gaffer why. He offered me another go in the Mk2 Escort rally car which I gladly accepted, and got some good feedback from the instructor in that car.
Unsure why any experience day organiser would employ a nervous instructor. But I found it very annoying when it was such an outlier from the rest of them instructing on the day.
Actually, given the day was excellent (as was their Impreza based rally driving day) I'd recommend Rally Rides if you're in the Midlands. It's cheap and cheerful but in the main, they are a bunch of petrolheads who just want their customers to enjoy themselves as much as possible.
The exception was in the Impreza blobeye, and I'd owned one for a few years and sold it not long before, so it was entirely familiar to me - I jumped in and got on it. The instructor had been with me in the skid control car so knew I wasn't a monkey, but nevertheless jumped on his set of brakes into the first cone chicane saying "let's calm it down a bit shall we" so I cruised round the rest of the lap at low revs and parked it. Told the gaffer why. He offered me another go in the Mk2 Escort rally car which I gladly accepted, and got some good feedback from the instructor in that car.
Unsure why any experience day organiser would employ a nervous instructor. But I found it very annoying when it was such an outlier from the rest of them instructing on the day.
Actually, given the day was excellent (as was their Impreza based rally driving day) I'd recommend Rally Rides if you're in the Midlands. It's cheap and cheerful but in the main, they are a bunch of petrolheads who just want their customers to enjoy themselves as much as possible.
I had similar on my first ever track day, at the Brands GP circuit.
The two instructors were neither of them actually instructors.
The MX5 "instructor" was a sports car dealer, and was non stop trying to slow us all down as he was basically terrified we would bin it with him in it.
The Caterham "instructor" was the leader in the top Caterham championship that year, and he was so laid back he was horizontal.
Unlike track days nowadays, there were no overtaking rules, and he had me overtaking 911s around all the GP section corners, because that Caterham on slicks was absolutely glued to the track. Of course they came past me on the straights, but he thought it great fun to get me to overtake them again at the next corner.
That day stuck in my memory for many a year afterwards. Not just for the driving I did and that fantastic instructor, but also watching the bikes circulating in their session. The thumping of the big twins and the scream of the Japanese stuff. And watching a Ferrari F40 and a 250 GTO lapping in the sessions when I wasn't driving. And seeing a 911 turbo arrive back at the pits with the brakes on fire, driver laughing as he dived for a fire extinguisher.
I have done about 40 track days since then, loved them all.
The two instructors were neither of them actually instructors.
The MX5 "instructor" was a sports car dealer, and was non stop trying to slow us all down as he was basically terrified we would bin it with him in it.
The Caterham "instructor" was the leader in the top Caterham championship that year, and he was so laid back he was horizontal.
Unlike track days nowadays, there were no overtaking rules, and he had me overtaking 911s around all the GP section corners, because that Caterham on slicks was absolutely glued to the track. Of course they came past me on the straights, but he thought it great fun to get me to overtake them again at the next corner.
That day stuck in my memory for many a year afterwards. Not just for the driving I did and that fantastic instructor, but also watching the bikes circulating in their session. The thumping of the big twins and the scream of the Japanese stuff. And watching a Ferrari F40 and a 250 GTO lapping in the sessions when I wasn't driving. And seeing a 911 turbo arrive back at the pits with the brakes on fire, driver laughing as he dived for a fire extinguisher.
I have done about 40 track days since then, loved them all.
QBee said:
I had similar on my first ever track day, at the Brands GP circuit.
The two instructors were neither of them actually instructors.
The MX5 "instructor" was a sports car dealer, and was non stop trying to slow us all down as he was basically terrified we would bin it with him in it.
The Caterham "instructor" was the leader in the top Caterham championship that year, and he was so laid back he was horizontal.
Unlike track days nowadays, there were no overtaking rules, and he had me overtaking 911s around all the GP section corners, because that Caterham on slicks was absolutely glued to the track. Of course they came past me on the straights, but he thought it great fun to get me to overtake them again at the next corner.
That day stuck in my memory for many a year afterwards. Not just for the driving I did and that fantastic instructor, but also watching the bikes circulating in their session. The thumping of the big twins and the scream of the Japanese stuff. And watching a Ferrari F40 and a 250 GTO lapping in the sessions when I wasn't driving. And seeing a 911 turbo arrive back at the pits with the brakes on fire, driver laughing as he dived for a fire extinguisher.
I have done about 40 track days since then, loved them all.
I did a `track day' at Brands, in a number of different Caterhams. I did some laps with a Caterham `instructor' (Caterham Race series driver) and it was both brilliant, and scary at various points around the circuit, with quite a few bends being of the ` There is no f*cking way we are getting around `this' bend alive at `this' speed' variety. The two instructors were neither of them actually instructors.
The MX5 "instructor" was a sports car dealer, and was non stop trying to slow us all down as he was basically terrified we would bin it with him in it.
The Caterham "instructor" was the leader in the top Caterham championship that year, and he was so laid back he was horizontal.
Unlike track days nowadays, there were no overtaking rules, and he had me overtaking 911s around all the GP section corners, because that Caterham on slicks was absolutely glued to the track. Of course they came past me on the straights, but he thought it great fun to get me to overtake them again at the next corner.
That day stuck in my memory for many a year afterwards. Not just for the driving I did and that fantastic instructor, but also watching the bikes circulating in their session. The thumping of the big twins and the scream of the Japanese stuff. And watching a Ferrari F40 and a 250 GTO lapping in the sessions when I wasn't driving. And seeing a 911 turbo arrive back at the pits with the brakes on fire, driver laughing as he dived for a fire extinguisher.
I have done about 40 track days since then, loved them all.
We were on the circuit with a pair of Lamborghini's which just blew by us on the straights, but we were ahead of them every time we went through the start finish section of the track. The Caterham we were using at the time had just 100 hp! It demonstrated how a fast a good driver could go, regardless of what type of car they were in.
I also did some laps in a Cayman with a Porsche cup driver, and it was the first time I have been in any car, where I thought it needed windscreen wipers on the side windows. When we pulled into the pits, the tyres, and the the brakes were smoking, and the Porsche driver was grinning like a Cheshire cat, with the comment that if he didn't wear out a set of (road) tyres in a morning, he felt he wasn't trying hard enough.
Complete opposite end of the spectrum back in early 2005 I got given a mini mcs driving experience @ rockingham, as a birthday present, coincidentally I already had a Mini Cooper S on order, and due delivery a few weeks after….
The upside was I could “rag the car at Rockingham” and then gently run in my own car shortly after without feeling the need to open the taps and see what she really had as the only drives prior we’re in dealers cars with a salesperson as chaperone.
Long story short, that mini stayed with me for nearly 10 years, was upgraded after 1st 10k service to 240bhp
And carried on past 140k with most of it at 275+ bhp plenty of track days along the way.
The upside was I could “rag the car at Rockingham” and then gently run in my own car shortly after without feeling the need to open the taps and see what she really had as the only drives prior we’re in dealers cars with a salesperson as chaperone.
Long story short, that mini stayed with me for nearly 10 years, was upgraded after 1st 10k service to 240bhp
And carried on past 140k with most of it at 275+ bhp plenty of track days along the way.
Gary C said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Did you mean the instructor, or the person doing the driving, having a `nervous' nature? These instructors are driving these high performance cars day in, day out (Nice job if you can get it!) so they seem to be able to make judgements fairly quickly, about the driving ability of the people they take around, and adjust their attitudes accordingly
(Unlike a friend of mine, who drove like a f*ckwit on the mistaken basis, that he was a driving god, and `he' was paying for the experience) They asked him to get out of the car, and leave the venue. which I could do nothing but agree with.
I mean the instructor(Unlike a friend of mine, who drove like a f*ckwit on the mistaken basis, that he was a driving god, and `he' was paying for the experience) They asked him to get out of the car, and leave the venue. which I could do nothing but agree with.
Hence, instructor one was frightened, instructor two was very complimentary about my driving, instructor three offered me a job.
I've done a few - they vary a lot in terms of how fast you can go, be it due to reluctant instructors, traffic, etc. but generally they're pretty good.
I usually go for Caterhams, single seaters, that kind of thing - you usually get more laps, they're better suited to track driving, and (in single seaters) there's nobody telling you to slow down! Also they don't bother with duel controls in the cheaper cars. Depends on your reasons for doing it, of course.
They typically have some kind of learning the track/assessment drive first - if you show you know what you're doing and you're going to follow the rules about overtaking, they're more comfortable letting you push it.
I did one I think at Donnington in a Formula Ford where we had to drive round in procession on a busy track, unable to overtake the many slower cars until directed, which was very frustrating. At the other end of the spectrum, I did a Formula Renault one where I had the track to myself (small one, I forget where), which was great. Similar at Croft last month, not many on track and they let me go about as fast as I dared. I even briefly lost the back end on a Caterham, and the instructor just put 'nice drift' on the assessment card.
I usually go for Caterhams, single seaters, that kind of thing - you usually get more laps, they're better suited to track driving, and (in single seaters) there's nobody telling you to slow down! Also they don't bother with duel controls in the cheaper cars. Depends on your reasons for doing it, of course.
They typically have some kind of learning the track/assessment drive first - if you show you know what you're doing and you're going to follow the rules about overtaking, they're more comfortable letting you push it.
I did one I think at Donnington in a Formula Ford where we had to drive round in procession on a busy track, unable to overtake the many slower cars until directed, which was very frustrating. At the other end of the spectrum, I did a Formula Renault one where I had the track to myself (small one, I forget where), which was great. Similar at Croft last month, not many on track and they let me go about as fast as I dared. I even briefly lost the back end on a Caterham, and the instructor just put 'nice drift' on the assessment card.
Pan Pan Pan said:
These instructors are driving these high performance cars day in, day out (Nice job if you can get it!)
This was my industry. It's very rarely a nice job though, at least when you're in one of the sausage factory type operations rather than being an indy on a TD.You're under immense pressure to not have your billy stack a a car yet you have to be very friendly but assertive without upsetting the driver too much. And then you get motion sickness, uncertainty (they are by and large self employed), low pay, etc...
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