Red flag / crashes frequency
Discussion
I did my first track day last Friday at Castle Combe and loved it. Great another expensive hobby!
I know Castle Combe has a bit of a reputation in terms of lack of run off, undulating surfaces etc, but I was still surprised by the number of red flags. A couple were down to mechanical failures and knocked cones but most were due to car piling into barriers. Some cars were just a little scuffed but a few needed winching onto the recovery truck due to wheels no longer all pointing where they should be.
It was a dry day, is this high level of accidents usual?
I know Castle Combe has a bit of a reputation in terms of lack of run off, undulating surfaces etc, but I was still surprised by the number of red flags. A couple were down to mechanical failures and knocked cones but most were due to car piling into barriers. Some cars were just a little scuffed but a few needed winching onto the recovery truck due to wheels no longer all pointing where they should be.
It was a dry day, is this high level of accidents usual?
How many were racecars? More amateur racers doing testing, more red flags there are in my opinion.
Donington is the worst, gravel traps combined with a general lack of talent (or 'cold rear tyres' as the drivers will say) means theres a red flag every half hour or so.
Go to bedford where there is plenty of run off and no racecars, and you wont get a red all day. Or go to a normal track, but out of season.
Donington is the worst, gravel traps combined with a general lack of talent (or 'cold rear tyres' as the drivers will say) means theres a red flag every half hour or so.
Go to bedford where there is plenty of run off and no racecars, and you wont get a red all day. Or go to a normal track, but out of season.
A much higher proportion of the cars were trailered to the track, than I was expecting. I’d assumed most would be driven there.
That said, I think all except for one, that were no longer able to drive home, had driven there.
I did get a reasonable amount of track time, but there was nearly always a 10/15 min queue to get on the track, until the last hour or so.
That said, I think all except for one, that were no longer able to drive home, had driven there.
I did get a reasonable amount of track time, but there was nearly always a 10/15 min queue to get on the track, until the last hour or so.
I've found it also depends on the organiser. MSV days are normally fairly good - even at Donington - with only a few red flags. The cheap ones are by far the worst. There doesn't seem to be much of a pattern as to which ones the race cars turn up to though, during the summer there's always a few on each day.
The worst I ever had was a 3+ hour red flag at Donington...not caused by someone coming off, instead one of the mechanics that was setting up for that weekend's Ferrari Challenge in the paddock injured himself and had to be treated/taken to hospital by the circuit ambo, meaning no track driving until it came back. No hint of even a partial refund for that meant most people were fairly upset!
The worst I ever had was a 3+ hour red flag at Donington...not caused by someone coming off, instead one of the mechanics that was setting up for that weekend's Ferrari Challenge in the paddock injured himself and had to be treated/taken to hospital by the circuit ambo, meaning no track driving until it came back. No hint of even a partial refund for that meant most people were fairly upset!
Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 25th April 19:16
Having worked at Castle Combe for years and also attending track days, unfortunately the circuit has a tendency to attract terrible drivers and knob heads. I'm not calling you a knob head OP, it's just this is a fact about the circuit.
Attend any other circuit in the UK and I promise you'll see less crashes, red / black flags and even fights in the pit lane.
Stay away from Castle Combe is my real advice to anyone.
Attend any other circuit in the UK and I promise you'll see less crashes, red / black flags and even fights in the pit lane.
Stay away from Castle Combe is my real advice to anyone.
Maybe I was lucky but I was at a Castle Combe trackday on Tuesday 5th April with Javelin and had a great day.
I left by 3.30 but there had only been 2 red flags, both for breakdowns.
I also found the driving standards excellent, I've probably done over 50 trackdays in the last 20 years and can honestly say it was one of the very few where I didn't have a single incident of another driver doing something he shouldn't have done.
It was showing as full on the Javelin website but didn't seem too busy, maybe because they let fewer out on track due to noise restrictions?
I left by 3.30 but there had only been 2 red flags, both for breakdowns.
I also found the driving standards excellent, I've probably done over 50 trackdays in the last 20 years and can honestly say it was one of the very few where I didn't have a single incident of another driver doing something he shouldn't have done.
It was showing as full on the Javelin website but didn't seem too busy, maybe because they let fewer out on track due to noise restrictions?
Networkgeek said:
Having worked at Castle Combe for years and also attending track days, unfortunately the circuit has a tendency to attract terrible drivers and knob heads. I'm not calling you a knob head OP, it's just this is a fact about the circuit.
Attend any other circuit in the UK and I promise you'll see less crashes, red / black flags and even fights in the pit lane.
Stay away from Castle Combe is my real advice to anyone.
I completely disagree. It’s one of the riskier circuits because of the layout, but I’ve been going there for years and driving standards/etiquette have rarely been an issue unless there are racers there testing for an event the next day.Attend any other circuit in the UK and I promise you'll see less crashes, red / black flags and even fights in the pit lane.
Stay away from Castle Combe is my real advice to anyone.
It’s a great track and a lot of fun. It does punish silly mistakes and overconfidence though.
I have the proud distinction of causing one of the red flags on the 5th and my car has just been diagnosed with terminal engine damage. Bugger.
Derek182 said:
Maybe I was lucky but I was at a Castle Combe trackday on Tuesday 5th April with Javelin and had a great day.
I left by 3.30 but there had only been 2 red flags, both for breakdowns.
I also found the driving standards excellent, I've probably done over 50 trackdays in the last 20 years and can honestly say it was one of the very few where I didn't have a single incident of another driver doing something he shouldn't have done.
It was showing as full on the Javelin website but didn't seem too busy, maybe because they let fewer out on track due to noise restrictions?
Ditto.I left by 3.30 but there had only been 2 red flags, both for breakdowns.
I also found the driving standards excellent, I've probably done over 50 trackdays in the last 20 years and can honestly say it was one of the very few where I didn't have a single incident of another driver doing something he shouldn't have done.
It was showing as full on the Javelin website but didn't seem too busy, maybe because they let fewer out on track due to noise restrictions?
I had a day out there last summer and, regrettably, was the cause of the only red flag of the day when my supercharger belt disintegrated.
Driving standards seemed good on the whole, apart from one obvious novice who didn't know which side to let people pass.
This was behind my original question as overall I thought the standard of driving was quite good. There was a lot of speed differential but generally the quicker cars were patient and the slower ones moved over ASAP. It all seemed pretty relaxed.
Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
ncjones said:
This was behind my original question as overall I thought the standard of driving was quite good. There was a lot of speed differential but generally the quicker cars were patient and the slower ones moved over ASAP. It all seemed pretty relaxed.
Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
You didn't actually give a number in your original post, so it's hard to tell you if it's "a lot" or not.Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
I'd ignore breakdowns and cones, because they are often unfortunate and/or quickly resolved. How many cars were "piling into barriers" exactly?
I'd definitely say I've seen more cars in the wall at Combe than any other circuit I go to, but that's due to lack of runoff in some of the tastier corners. There's a reason quarry corner is notorious.......
I wouldn't say it's even one a day though, worst day I did there were two offs involving contact with the wall. One was a proper front end impact and the other was a scrape along the wall which took the wing mirror off and did a proper number on the bodywork all down the side of the car but it was still perfectly driveable.
That day there were two reds for those incidents and maybe another two or three for mechanical issues. Rare that I do any trackday anywhere without at least one or two reds for one reason or another.
I wouldn't say it's even one a day though, worst day I did there were two offs involving contact with the wall. One was a proper front end impact and the other was a scrape along the wall which took the wing mirror off and did a proper number on the bodywork all down the side of the car but it was still perfectly driveable.
That day there were two reds for those incidents and maybe another two or three for mechanical issues. Rare that I do any trackday anywhere without at least one or two reds for one reason or another.
C70R said:
ncjones said:
This was behind my original question as overall I thought the standard of driving was quite good. There was a lot of speed differential but generally the quicker cars were patient and the slower ones moved over ASAP. It all seemed pretty relaxed.
Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
You didn't actually give a number in your original post, so it's hard to tell you if it's "a lot" or not.Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
I'd ignore breakdowns and cones, because they are often unfortunate and/or quickly resolved. How many cars were "piling into barriers" exactly?
3 cars made heavy contact with barriers, 1 resulting in a fairly long track closure (there were no injuries during the day) and 2 or 3, perhaps more, made lighter contact i.e. able to make their own way to the pits.
ncjones said:
C70R said:
ncjones said:
This was behind my original question as overall I thought the standard of driving was quite good. There was a lot of speed differential but generally the quicker cars were patient and the slower ones moved over ASAP. It all seemed pretty relaxed.
Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
You didn't actually give a number in your original post, so it's hard to tell you if it's "a lot" or not.Only on reflection there did seem more red flags than I was expecting, but it was my first track day.
It was circuit run one, rather than through another operator.
I'd ignore breakdowns and cones, because they are often unfortunate and/or quickly resolved. How many cars were "piling into barriers" exactly?
3 cars made heavy contact with barriers, 1 resulting in a fairly long track closure (there were no injuries during the day) and 2 or 3, perhaps more, made lighter contact i.e. able to make their own way to the pits.
As someone else mentioned, Combe doesn't forgive easily with such little runoff and some longer, straighter bits. But 6 still feels excessive.
I find reds are more common these days compared to when I first started out 20 years ago.
In my mind it is the difference that nowadays a much higher % of attendees seem to have dedicated track cars.
Not having the worry of driving home or needing the car to get to work etc, if they are even bothered about the car at all, means people will drive more on their limit and more on the cars limit, smashing kerbs, revving harder etc.
The trackdays I've done over the last 5 years definitely feel like they have more stoppages than those of 10-20 years ago.
In my mind it is the difference that nowadays a much higher % of attendees seem to have dedicated track cars.
Not having the worry of driving home or needing the car to get to work etc, if they are even bothered about the car at all, means people will drive more on their limit and more on the cars limit, smashing kerbs, revving harder etc.
The trackdays I've done over the last 5 years definitely feel like they have more stoppages than those of 10-20 years ago.
Just been looking up track day insurance as may get the chance to a lap or 3 of the Nürburgring next month, where the cost ramifications are far higher. Interestingly this is wording lifted straight from Moris insurance.
“Dangerous circuits like Castle Combe, Goodwood, Oulton Park and Nurburgring do carry increased premiums and/or excesses.”
“Dangerous circuits like Castle Combe, Goodwood, Oulton Park and Nurburgring do carry increased premiums and/or excesses.”
They are all pretty minimal run off circuits except Oulton but I can imagine that one is sketchy due to undulations.
I think the first corner at Combe is the most crashed in the U.K.
At Nurb if you want comprehensive insurance you are best to rent a car there.
Any track cover here will only cover your car and maybe if you get really lucky the barrier/ recovery costs. Which is ok if you do a dedicated track day, if doing just a few TF laps then you won’t be covered from any 3rd party point of view which is risky.
I think the first corner at Combe is the most crashed in the U.K.
At Nurb if you want comprehensive insurance you are best to rent a car there.
Any track cover here will only cover your car and maybe if you get really lucky the barrier/ recovery costs. Which is ok if you do a dedicated track day, if doing just a few TF laps then you won’t be covered from any 3rd party point of view which is risky.
That's a lot of incidents! I guess some days will be like that.
The problem with Quarry is the sharp rise in the track on the way in to the corner, if someone's breaking hard over that (Avon rise I think?) then it can badly destabilise the car with predictable consequences. Just have a look at the YT videos from the action days they host there for a "how not to do it" guide
The problem with Quarry is the sharp rise in the track on the way in to the corner, if someone's breaking hard over that (Avon rise I think?) then it can badly destabilise the car with predictable consequences. Just have a look at the YT videos from the action days they host there for a "how not to do it" guide
RB Will said:
They are all pretty minimal run off circuits except Oulton but I can imagine that one is sketchy due to undulations.
I think the first corner at Combe is the most crashed in the U.K.
At Nurb if you want comprehensive insurance you are best to rent a car there.
Any track cover here will only cover your car and maybe if you get really lucky the barrier/ recovery costs. Which is ok if you do a dedicated track day, if doing just a few TF laps then you won’t be covered from any 3rd party point of view which is risky.
Thanks, I was coming to a similar conclusion myself re: Nurburgring. I’m happy to take the risk with my car, but not for track damage, closure costs, 3rd parties etc. I think the first corner at Combe is the most crashed in the U.K.
At Nurb if you want comprehensive insurance you are best to rent a car there.
Any track cover here will only cover your car and maybe if you get really lucky the barrier/ recovery costs. Which is ok if you do a dedicated track day, if doing just a few TF laps then you won’t be covered from any 3rd party point of view which is risky.
We have a spare day after going to the Spa Classic, but I’m now leaning towards finding some nice driving roads and scenery instead.
charltjr said:
The problem with Quarry is the sharp rise in the track on the way in to the corner, if someone's breaking hard over that (Avon rise I think?) then it can badly destabilise the car with predictable consequences. Just have a look at the YT videos from the action days they host there for a "how not to do it" guide
It took me quite a few goes to get that anything approaching right, and I was still nowhere near 100% commitment when my day ended.Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff