130i v 350z track car

[jassihayre]

Hi Guys

I'm in need of a tin top RWD for trackdays, drifting and possibly tarmac rallying in future. Car would have to be driven to the event so need to carry a set of spare wheels hence considering either a 130i or a 350z. Both are pretty similar on power to weight and price (£4.5k).

Both would probably need suspension and brake mods plus some weight reduction for track use but not sure if one is head and shoulders better than the other in terms of driving dynamics e.g. steering feel?

Thanks

[Ryan_T]

I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either. I’d be surprised if someone had experience of modified track versions of either to give you a definitive answer.

I could write pages, but I’ll throw in my experience as the owner of a 350Z track car - In short it’s fantastic, a few key things turn it into such a different beast to a standard one - Some suspension bits, square stance, alignment etc. Really playful, endlessly reliable, fun, quick.

I’ve gone a bit deep down the rabbit hole. But you don’t need too.

GT pack cars have forged Rays Engineering alloys as standard, super light and super strong (run 2 sets of rears on all 4 corners for a cheap ‘square set up’. Brembo brakes too which with some pads and fluid stand up to the abuse.

Second hand bits abundant and cheap if you get it wrong, owners club is fantastic, with some excellent dedicated traders offering everything you could ever need (torqen, tarmac sportz etc) - And obviously a platform with a lot of aftermarket support, easy to work on, there’s a YouTube video or guide for everything.

Drive to the track, tools and petrol in the back, cruise control, 35mpg, great Bose radio going, hammer on it all day - And don’t dread the drive back. What else can you ask for, for the money?

This is my second, having had a standard one, (and some other bits in between, including an Elise 111R) before going back to this. They’re super popular in the USA for track cars, but seem really slept on over here.

Edited by Ryan_T on Monday 18th April 22:13

Edited by Ryan_T on Monday 18th April 22:14

[DuncanM]

I love the 350Z, great looking cars. Your seat and gear knob look cool as

[petrolbloke]

I don't think you'd get a spare set of wheels in a 350Z - the boot isn't huge and the brace makes it awkward to get anything large in there. They are also heavier than a 130i.

[C70R]

The 130i seems to have achieved near-mythical status, particularly among owners (who'd have thunk it?). Honestly, I was disappointed when I drove one. Expecting a much-lauded 'Baby M-car', I ended up behind the wheel of a heavy-feeling hatch with really bad damping.

People of the internet will tell you that the 350z is "heavy", which it absolutely is for a 2-seater. But at only ~70kg heavier than the 130i, it's not going to make much difference in this comparison. The Nissan's engine is much torquier too, which might sway things depending on your driving style. The Nissan also comes with a load of great kit as standard (LSD, Brembo brakes, Rays lightweight wheels), meaning that you don't need to spend a load of money to make it fun on track.

Looking at the various magazine tests here there's very little difference between the two as standard.

[Krikkit]

C70R said:

The 130i seems to have achieved near-mythical status, particularly among owners (who'd have thunk it?). Honestly, I was disappointed when I drove one. Expecting a much-lauded 'Baby M-car', I ended up behind the wheel of a heavy-feeling hatch with really bad damping.

Neither of which matters for a track/rally car which will end up on a diet and with uprated suspension.

They're also roomier with a cage in which makes it more practical, easier to get spares for and easier to upgrade with the parts from the E9x M cars as they just bolt on (lower arms for example). And they're cheaper than a Z.

I'd have a 3 door as a track car without hesitation.

[C70R]

Krikkit said:

C70R said:

The 130i seems to have achieved near-mythical status, particularly among owners (who'd have thunk it?). Honestly, I was disappointed when I drove one. Expecting a much-lauded 'Baby M-car', I ended up behind the wheel of a heavy-feeling hatch with really bad damping.

Neither of which matters for a track/rally car which will end up on a diet and with uprated suspension.

They're also roomier with a cage in which makes it more practical, easier to get spares for and easier to upgrade with the parts from the E9x M cars as they just bolt on (lower arms for example). And they're cheaper than a Z.

I'd have a 3 door as a track car without hesitation.

I don't think there's much in the price, and the 3dr cars are commanding a serious premium these days.

If you're assuming that you're going to build a pseudo-racecar (cage etc.), then it probably comes down to preference as there's a great aftermarket scene for the Z too.

If you're staying more standard, I think the Z makes more sense.

[Ryan_T]

Ultimately OP to add to my other comment I just think go for whichever one 1 - You can find the best example of, and 2 - That excites you the most, so you’re willing to work on it / get it sorted and will enable you to spend the most amount of time on track. Incremental differences between the two are negligible vs just time in the seat. If one motivates you to get up early on a Saturday morning to fix something more than the other, there we go.

[Derek182]

If tarmac rallying is a serious goal then I don't think you can do it with a 350Z as the engine is over 3 litres, people are rallying 130i and similar BMWs as a cheap RWD alternative to stupidly expensive Escorts

[Tommie38]

Doesn’t the 350z have an LSD that tends to overheat when being used hard? Can’t imagine you wouldn’t want to replace if so, particularly for drifting.

There was(is?) a big 130i M Sport community and upgrades like LSD were very common. Maybe try BabyBMW if you haven’t already, would be good to buy from an owner.

[300bhp/ton]

jassihayre said:

Hi Guys

I'm in need of a tin top RWD for trackdays, drifting and possibly tarmac rallying in future. Car would have to be driven to the event so need to carry a set of spare wheels hence considering either a 130i or a 350z. Both are pretty similar on power to weight and price (£4.5k).

Both would probably need suspension and brake mods plus some weight reduction for track use but not sure if one is head and shoulders better than the other in terms of driving dynamics e.g. steering feel?

Thanks

If you plan on tarmac rallies, check the regs out and which class you'd be able to compete in. I also highly suspect you'd want a trailer and a support vehicle full of tools and spares....

I'd also look at things like if an MSUK/FIA cage is easily available for each vehicle and how much it may cost.

[iguana]

Are you dead set on only one of those? Got a proper track spec e36 I will be sticking up for sale v soon, ring rings round either of those, similar power, a lot lighter!

[Krikkit]

Tommie38 said:

There was(is?) a big 130i M Sport community and upgrades like LSD were very common. Maybe try BabyBMW if you haven’t already, would be good to buy from an owner.

There's a good owners' group on facebook now, full of good knowledge etc: https://www.facebook.com/groups/526409061074147/

C70R said:

I don't think there's much in the price, and the 3dr cars are commanding a serious premium these days.

If you're assuming that you're going to build a pseudo-racecar (cage etc.), then it probably comes down to preference as there's a great aftermarket scene for the Z too.

If you're staying more standard, I think the Z makes more sense.

5 door would be a better bet so you can fit the 116i Trophy cage for £1k. Weight penalty is also minimal between them.

Edited by Krikkit on Friday 22 April 10:46

[andy97]

Derek182 said:

If tarmac rallying is a serious goal then I don't think you can do it with a 350Z as the engine is over 3 litres, people are rallying 130i and similar BMWs as a cheap RWD alternative to stupidly expensive Escorts

There is a 3 litre limit in rallying, however, I “think” that you can have a car greater than 3 litres “if” it complies with the FIA Rally GT regs, which you may be able to do with a 350Z.
Might be restricted on the events you can enter, though.
There have certainly been Rally GT cars such as Porsche 997 and Cayman on the MSVR circuit rallies.
In many ways it is daft that MSUK did not encourage the use of cars like this in a “Rally First” type category.

[300bhp/ton]

andy97 said:

Derek182 said:

If tarmac rallying is a serious goal then I don't think you can do it with a 350Z as the engine is over 3 litres, people are rallying 130i and similar BMWs as a cheap RWD alternative to stupidly expensive Escorts

There is a 3 litre limit in rallying, however, I “think” that you can have a car greater than 3 litres “if” it complies with the FIA Rally GT regs, which you may be able to do with a 350Z.
Might be restricted on the events you can enter, though.
There have certainly been Rally GT cars such as Porsche 997 and Cayman on the MSVR circuit rallies.
In many ways it is daft that MSUK did not encourage the use of cars like this in a “Rally First” type category.

Sadly the MSUK is a complete dinosaur in many respects. Such as basing classes on engine displacement in the first place.

[jassihayre]

Thanks guys

Just to clarify I'm not looking to compete bin drifting /rallying. I think it's called 12 car navigation but it's run by local rally organisations.

The 05+ 350z looks interesting with 296bhp but its size is putting me off as I believe to the 12 car navigation events use small/ B roads but something I need to look into further.

I've been waiting for a decent E36/ 46 to come up for sale but so far most have been modded just for drifting with welded diffs and suspension setups etc or have been a bit ropey!

Looks like most RWD tin tops are either expensive or converted into full on drift machines!

Edited by jassihayre on Friday 22 April 16:33

[300bhp/ton]

jassihayre said:

Thanks guys

Just to clarify I'm not looking to compete bin drifting /rallying. I think it's called 12 car navigation but it's run by local rally organisations.

The 05+ 350z looks interesting with 296bhp but its size is putting me off as I believe to the 12 car navigation events use small/ B roads but something I need to look into further.

I've been waiting for a decent E36/ 46 to come up for sale but so far most have been modded just for drifting with welded diffs and suspension setups etc or have been a bit ropey!

Looks like most RWD tin tops are either expensive or converted into full on drift machines!

Edited by jassihayre on Friday 22 April 16:33

12 car road rallies should be about average speed. Technically they shouldn't be speeding...

I'd have thought a 350z would be ok for that, it really isn't all that big. I've certainly used bigger cars on B roads without issue.

What about something like an RX-8 or NC MX-5? Not as powerful maybe, but can be made to go pretty well still.

[andy97]

300bhp/ton said:

andy97 said:

Derek182 said:

If tarmac rallying is a serious goal then I don't think you can do it with a 350Z as the engine is over 3 litres, people are rallying 130i and similar BMWs as a cheap RWD alternative to stupidly expensive Escorts

There is a 3 litre limit in rallying, however, I “think” that you can have a car greater than 3 litres “if” it complies with the FIA Rally GT regs, which you may be able to do with a 350Z.
Might be restricted on the events you can enter, though.
There have certainly been Rally GT cars such as Porsche 997 and Cayman on the MSVR circuit rallies.
In many ways it is daft that MSUK did not encourage the use of cars like this in a “Rally First” type category.

Sadly the MSUK is a complete dinosaur in many respects. Such as basing classes on engine displacement in the first place.

Agree 100%, but that’s a discussion for another thread probably.

[Krikkit]

jassihayre said:

Thanks guys

Just to clarify I'm not looking to compete bin drifting /rallying. I think it's called 12 car navigation but it's run by local rally organisations.

The 05+ 350z looks interesting with 296bhp but its size is putting me off as I believe to the 12 car navigation events use small/ B roads but something I need to look into further.

I've been waiting for a decent E36/ 46 to come up for sale but so far most have been modded just for drifting with welded diffs and suspension setups etc or have been a bit ropey!

Looks like most RWD tin tops are either expensive or converted into full on drift machines!

A lot of Ex6 3s are very highly and possibly badly modded now.

The really well prepped cars tend to be pretty pricey, 6k barely gets you in the door for a decent 30i with a solid shell.

[C70R]

There are still bargains to be had in the E46 330 coupe, I reckon. There are plenty of unmodified cars available at sub-£4k on Autotrader, and cheaper still on FB Marketplace on eBay if you're prepared to hunt.

Don't forget, if you're turning it into a track/rally car, you don't need to worry about buying a mint, facelift M-Sport. Save your pennies and pick up an unloved SE spec coupe - identical mechanically, but with different wheels/bumpers/seats. Similarly, I'd be considering an insurance repaired car if it's going to be worked over and tracked.

Also worth considering an auto if you're planning to do a lot of prep work. The manual conversion is a well-trodden path, and while it might not save you loads of money over a similar manual, you're likely to get a car that's had an easier life. Having said that, with regular servicing and the small, common issues addressed (DISA, Vanos, cooling system, PCV, cam cover gaskets), the M54B30 will live a long and fruitful life.