Brands 31 Jan - advice please
Discussion
Morning all,
I recently bought an NC MX5 on coilovers and want to take it on track. I’ve got my eye on 31 Jan at Brands Hatch.
The car has a recent service with oil, fuel filter, coolant etc. I’ll put in fresh ATE200 dot 4 brake fluid as a precaution and I may do the discs and pads as well to be on the safe side (how long do you need to bed a new set in before going on track??)
Plan is to drive it there and back (under an hour each way). I don’t plan to set any records, just experience the track and get to know the car.
I’ve been on track before at Silverstone (novice session), Donnington and Snetterton - plus a few airfield sessions in my own car or others. I did a weekend at the ring in 2007 so not totally new to this, however all of those were in good weather.
Anything I need to look out for ahead of doing Brands in winter?
Cheers
Alan
I recently bought an NC MX5 on coilovers and want to take it on track. I’ve got my eye on 31 Jan at Brands Hatch.
The car has a recent service with oil, fuel filter, coolant etc. I’ll put in fresh ATE200 dot 4 brake fluid as a precaution and I may do the discs and pads as well to be on the safe side (how long do you need to bed a new set in before going on track??)
Plan is to drive it there and back (under an hour each way). I don’t plan to set any records, just experience the track and get to know the car.
I’ve been on track before at Silverstone (novice session), Donnington and Snetterton - plus a few airfield sessions in my own car or others. I did a weekend at the ring in 2007 so not totally new to this, however all of those were in good weather.
Anything I need to look out for ahead of doing Brands in winter?
Cheers
Alan
I would have thought the drive there would be enough to bed them in nicely enough. Just brake earlier and lighter as and when application is required 
Also, be gentle for your first session. Not that you’ll get to be doing much else on what will probably be a damp trackday.
My only bit of advise about Brands is watch out on paddock hill bend. It’s drops down and away and can easily send you off if it starts to go wrong….
Just go steady, let the pace come to you rather than go chasing after it from lap 1
Also, be gentle for your first session. Not that you’ll get to be doing much else on what will probably be a damp trackday. My only bit of advise about Brands is watch out on paddock hill bend. It’s drops down and away and can easily send you off if it starts to go wrong….
Just go steady, let the pace come to you rather than go chasing after it from lap 1
First off - enjoy it! Brands is great fun.
Book a garage if they arn't sold out - makes the whole day much nicer, especially if its wet/cold. You can take a heater/kettle/little table to make it all a bit nicer in the garage that way too.
Car prep sounds spot on - good work.
Read up on the wet line at Brands - there are a couple of places where if the grass is damp, you get a one way ticket to the barrier. When I race there in the wet I tend to run about 1-2 car widths off the line around all corners other than druids (the hairpin) where you break off line, but then stay tight to the curb all the way round and then keep in the middle of the track on exit. It is a pretty slick track in the wet - but hopefully you get a cold but dry day.
Have fun
Book a garage if they arn't sold out - makes the whole day much nicer, especially if its wet/cold. You can take a heater/kettle/little table to make it all a bit nicer in the garage that way too.
Car prep sounds spot on - good work.
Read up on the wet line at Brands - there are a couple of places where if the grass is damp, you get a one way ticket to the barrier. When I race there in the wet I tend to run about 1-2 car widths off the line around all corners other than druids (the hairpin) where you break off line, but then stay tight to the curb all the way round and then keep in the middle of the track on exit. It is a pretty slick track in the wet - but hopefully you get a cold but dry day.
Have fun
Boggo said:
First off - enjoy it! Brands is great fun.
Book a garage if they arn't sold out - makes the whole day much nicer, especially if its wet/cold. You can take a heater/kettle/little table to make it all a bit nicer in the garage that way too.
Car prep sounds spot on - good work.
Read up on the wet line at Brands - there are a couple of places where if the grass is damp, you get a one way ticket to the barrier. When I race there in the wet I tend to run about 1-2 car widths off the line around all corners other than druids (the hairpin) where you break off line, but then stay tight to the curb all the way round and then keep in the middle of the track on exit. It is a pretty slick track in the wet - but hopefully you get a cold but dry day.
Have fun
I think that's pretty sensible advice for any track day in the wet! My local tracks are Bedford and Snetterton and at those there is definitely more grip a car's width off the line when it's wet. Book a garage if they arn't sold out - makes the whole day much nicer, especially if its wet/cold. You can take a heater/kettle/little table to make it all a bit nicer in the garage that way too.
Car prep sounds spot on - good work.
Read up on the wet line at Brands - there are a couple of places where if the grass is damp, you get a one way ticket to the barrier. When I race there in the wet I tend to run about 1-2 car widths off the line around all corners other than druids (the hairpin) where you break off line, but then stay tight to the curb all the way round and then keep in the middle of the track on exit. It is a pretty slick track in the wet - but hopefully you get a cold but dry day.
Have fun
If you've bought a track prepped car which you haven't track dayed before then you should know the noise limit and satisfy yourself that you can meet it. Not a Brands specific problem but an easily overlooked hurdle with a modified car.
For Brands, you are going to get a lot of compression through the suspension at the bottom of paddock hill. This can cause the car to bottom out, hit the bump stops or cause handling peculiarities if the suspension setup is off.
Wet lines aren't your usual at Brands, so experiment. The first half of the lap is forgiving. However last time I raced there in the wet in October 2020 there was absolutely no grip on the outside half of the track width through Mclaren and Clark Curve. Mclaren exit / Clark entry is also visibly off-camber out there. Very easy to end up running through the gravel.
If you have an open diff, watch your wheelspin through Clark. It's possible to feel like you've done the corner and the spinning inside tyre is just a nuisance but unexpected things can happen as that tyre grips up.
ETA: I’ve also seen people drop it on the straight on the up shift to 4th. That’s perhaps the easiest way to hit a barrier in a big way.
For Brands, you are going to get a lot of compression through the suspension at the bottom of paddock hill. This can cause the car to bottom out, hit the bump stops or cause handling peculiarities if the suspension setup is off.
Wet lines aren't your usual at Brands, so experiment. The first half of the lap is forgiving. However last time I raced there in the wet in October 2020 there was absolutely no grip on the outside half of the track width through Mclaren and Clark Curve. Mclaren exit / Clark entry is also visibly off-camber out there. Very easy to end up running through the gravel.
If you have an open diff, watch your wheelspin through Clark. It's possible to feel like you've done the corner and the spinning inside tyre is just a nuisance but unexpected things can happen as that tyre grips up.
ETA: I’ve also seen people drop it on the straight on the up shift to 4th. That’s perhaps the easiest way to hit a barrier in a big way.
Edited by HustleRussell on Tuesday 25th January 10:47
Check out https://www.mazdaontrack.co.uk/book-a-track-day-52...
Always plenty of mazda's with great people and excellent track etiquette
Always plenty of mazda's with great people and excellent track etiquette
Alan,
I will be at Brands on Monday.
I find clearways to be the most tricky in the wet.
Paddock hill I find pretty quick in the compression in a rwd car.
However I drive a totally standard classic car with skinny tyres, so it will be different on modern tyres.
Obviously I don't drive fast, but it's great fun, the less grip the better I say, as long as you lose grip proggressively. The most tricky are tyres that grip, grip and grip, until suddenly they don't lol. I try tobuild up speed gradually and keep things smooth.
I will be at Brands on Monday.
I find clearways to be the most tricky in the wet.
Paddock hill I find pretty quick in the compression in a rwd car.
However I drive a totally standard classic car with skinny tyres, so it will be different on modern tyres.
Obviously I don't drive fast, but it's great fun, the less grip the better I say, as long as you lose grip proggressively. The most tricky are tyres that grip, grip and grip, until suddenly they don't lol. I try tobuild up speed gradually and keep things smooth.
Thanks for all your replies - lots to think about!
The car has quality brand coilovers on it, but I don’t know who installed them and set them up, so that’s something to watch. It’s on rainsport 5 tyres all round with good tread, so hopefully not too digital on the grip/let go divide.
As stock it has a limited slip diff and traction control, which is hugely sensitive in this weather. Almost to the point where I want to turn it OFF for safety’s sake so it doesn’t kill the power unexpectedly at a key moment. Best to leave it on at first though I suspect.
Aside from the coilovers it’s basically standard. Exhaust & air filter is OEM Mazda so there should be no noise concerns. It’s got all of its interior/insulation and has no cage, harnesses, bucket seats etc - so I won’t be terribly rapid even if it’s warm and dry.
I’ve got front and rear tow eyes to install, but with no cage I’m definitely going to try and stay on the black top/shiny side up.
Insurance is a good shout. Didn’t even think of that! Where would be good to look?
On the garage, that’s another good call. I put extra money into tuition but clearly some warmth and shelter is likely to make it a much more pleasant day. Presumably there’s a locker or similar so that I don’t need to have things rattling round in the boot.
Re helmet - I’ve got a motorbike and planned to use my riding helmet. Are there any standards etc which mean I couldn’t? It’s surprising how little info I got after I booked it. I was expecting War and Peace in terms and conditions etc but received very little other than directions and an agenda.
Depending how this goes I’ll take a look at the Mazda link - I am a bit concerned about driving standards and about having my eyes glued on the rear view all day to avoid incoming race cars (or talented people in slow cars)
Courty - what will you be driving on 31st? I’ll look out for you. My car is a Blue 2007 MX5 which will be looking even more nervous than it’s driver.
The car has quality brand coilovers on it, but I don’t know who installed them and set them up, so that’s something to watch. It’s on rainsport 5 tyres all round with good tread, so hopefully not too digital on the grip/let go divide.
As stock it has a limited slip diff and traction control, which is hugely sensitive in this weather. Almost to the point where I want to turn it OFF for safety’s sake so it doesn’t kill the power unexpectedly at a key moment. Best to leave it on at first though I suspect.
Aside from the coilovers it’s basically standard. Exhaust & air filter is OEM Mazda so there should be no noise concerns. It’s got all of its interior/insulation and has no cage, harnesses, bucket seats etc - so I won’t be terribly rapid even if it’s warm and dry.
I’ve got front and rear tow eyes to install, but with no cage I’m definitely going to try and stay on the black top/shiny side up.
Insurance is a good shout. Didn’t even think of that! Where would be good to look?
On the garage, that’s another good call. I put extra money into tuition but clearly some warmth and shelter is likely to make it a much more pleasant day. Presumably there’s a locker or similar so that I don’t need to have things rattling round in the boot.
Re helmet - I’ve got a motorbike and planned to use my riding helmet. Are there any standards etc which mean I couldn’t? It’s surprising how little info I got after I booked it. I was expecting War and Peace in terms and conditions etc but received very little other than directions and an agenda.
Depending how this goes I’ll take a look at the Mazda link - I am a bit concerned about driving standards and about having my eyes glued on the rear view all day to avoid incoming race cars (or talented people in slow cars)
Courty - what will you be driving on 31st? I’ll look out for you. My car is a Blue 2007 MX5 which will be looking even more nervous than it’s driver.
Edited by _Al_ on Wednesday 26th January 06:15
I did my first track day at Brands Hatch on Monday and agree the lack of information can feel a bit daunting.
For context I did the day in a Clio 200 - all standard except for mildly upgraded pads (Ferodo DS2500), braided brake lines and some decent DOT4 brake fluid. I was on normal road tyres, Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
On a couple of your specific questions, a standard motorbike helmet is fine and will get you on track. It's only motocross helmets which are banned. The only thing I have heard from people is that if your helmet has any aero on the back it can limit your driving position by not being able to put your head back against the headrest. I would highly recommend booking a garage. It gives you somewhere to base yourself and leave any tools / kit you have. Your only other option is to leave stuff up against the fencing in the car park. The weather was good this week but I think I'd recommend even more if the weather was bad. I have another track day booked for a couple of weeks time and the first thing I did when I got home was book a garage for that session too!
Some other advice for what it's worth -
Arrive in plenty of time so you're not rushing. There is very little in the way of announcements on the day so keep an eye on what experienced people are doing and follow where you can. I'd recommend getting to the sign on desk as early as possible if you have tuition booked as (on MSV days at least) times are available on a first come first served basis. I booked my first tuition in for 10am (30 minutes after the track opens), it meant the initial rush of cars had just come in to cool down and meant my first time out on track was with an instructor. I booked a second session in for the afternoon which just helped to double check I was still on the right lines. After signing on get to noise testing (at the end of the paddock) early and then you will not be in a rush for sighting laps.
Keep sessions short and sharp, 15 - 20 minutes with a cooldown kept everything in good order. Have a decent tyre gauge to keep on top of tyre pressures and check the car over after each session. My tyres were starting to blister a little after 20 minutes or so even with a cold track and cold day. I got through the day fine on road tyres and have plenty of tread left to get home but don't think they would stand up to a hot day. Don't forget to put some air back in the tyres for the drive home at the end of the day!
When it comes to other cars on track (especially race cars) I didn't find the speed differential too great in most cases. Lots of the race cars testing are from track day championships or similar so have relatively standard engines, they are good in the corners but not super fast on the straights so make sure you back off a little to let them past when they are catching. The marshals do a good job with the blue lights keeping you informed. There were a couple of cars which were extremely fast but you can see them from a long way off. As long as you are decisive and predictable then they will find a way fast pretty easily on the straights and you won't feel like you are in their way for too long. Flicking your indicator on for cooldown laps etc to keep everybody informed seemed to be the norm. There was unfortunately an accident out on track where two cars collided (very rare from what I hear) but driving standards were pretty good all day and I rarely felt pressured by anybody.
In terms of driving, everyone's cars and driving ability will be different. The track is pretty friendly. Paddock hill bend (the first corner) seemed to be the main turn catching people out. Any problems I saw happened half way down the hill but were a result of getting the entry speed or line wrong leading to people panicking and backing off half way down the hill causing a spin.
Hope you enjoy the day!
For context I did the day in a Clio 200 - all standard except for mildly upgraded pads (Ferodo DS2500), braided brake lines and some decent DOT4 brake fluid. I was on normal road tyres, Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
On a couple of your specific questions, a standard motorbike helmet is fine and will get you on track. It's only motocross helmets which are banned. The only thing I have heard from people is that if your helmet has any aero on the back it can limit your driving position by not being able to put your head back against the headrest. I would highly recommend booking a garage. It gives you somewhere to base yourself and leave any tools / kit you have. Your only other option is to leave stuff up against the fencing in the car park. The weather was good this week but I think I'd recommend even more if the weather was bad. I have another track day booked for a couple of weeks time and the first thing I did when I got home was book a garage for that session too!
Some other advice for what it's worth -
Arrive in plenty of time so you're not rushing. There is very little in the way of announcements on the day so keep an eye on what experienced people are doing and follow where you can. I'd recommend getting to the sign on desk as early as possible if you have tuition booked as (on MSV days at least) times are available on a first come first served basis. I booked my first tuition in for 10am (30 minutes after the track opens), it meant the initial rush of cars had just come in to cool down and meant my first time out on track was with an instructor. I booked a second session in for the afternoon which just helped to double check I was still on the right lines. After signing on get to noise testing (at the end of the paddock) early and then you will not be in a rush for sighting laps.
Keep sessions short and sharp, 15 - 20 minutes with a cooldown kept everything in good order. Have a decent tyre gauge to keep on top of tyre pressures and check the car over after each session. My tyres were starting to blister a little after 20 minutes or so even with a cold track and cold day. I got through the day fine on road tyres and have plenty of tread left to get home but don't think they would stand up to a hot day. Don't forget to put some air back in the tyres for the drive home at the end of the day!
When it comes to other cars on track (especially race cars) I didn't find the speed differential too great in most cases. Lots of the race cars testing are from track day championships or similar so have relatively standard engines, they are good in the corners but not super fast on the straights so make sure you back off a little to let them past when they are catching. The marshals do a good job with the blue lights keeping you informed. There were a couple of cars which were extremely fast but you can see them from a long way off. As long as you are decisive and predictable then they will find a way fast pretty easily on the straights and you won't feel like you are in their way for too long. Flicking your indicator on for cooldown laps etc to keep everybody informed seemed to be the norm. There was unfortunately an accident out on track where two cars collided (very rare from what I hear) but driving standards were pretty good all day and I rarely felt pressured by anybody.
In terms of driving, everyone's cars and driving ability will be different. The track is pretty friendly. Paddock hill bend (the first corner) seemed to be the main turn catching people out. Any problems I saw happened half way down the hill but were a result of getting the entry speed or line wrong leading to people panicking and backing off half way down the hill causing a spin.
Hope you enjoy the day!
_Al_ said:
Courty - what will you be driving on 31st? I’ll look out for you. My car is a Blue 2007 MX5 which will be looking even more nervous than it’s driver.
I will be in a black s-reg (1977) Alfa Spider.You will find me easily enough bumbling down the pit straight, I keep the speed low, about 85mph, on the straights. Mechanical sympathy for he 45 year old engine and brakes ..
Yes, hope to see you there. I use an old motorbike helmet, must be full face, not open face, for open top cars. Also must have long sleeves which isn't a huge problem in January!
Plenty of good
Edited by courty on Wednesday 26th January 08:52
Acapulco99 said:
Why would you use dot 4 fluid? Surely a good quality high wbp dot 5.1 is better.
Because ate type 200 is one of the best track brake fluids there are available & it is inexpensive enough to change regularly, which IMHO is much preferable in the long run to keep water out rather than still work ok with water contamination.Edited by E-bmw on Wednesday 26th January 09:23
E-bmw said:
Acapulco99 said:
Why would you use dot 4 fluid? Surely a good quality high wbp dot 5.1 is better.
Because ate type 200 is one of the best track brake fluids there are available & it is inexpensive enough to change regularly, which IMHO is much preferable in the long run to keep water out rather than still work ok with water contamination.Edited by E-bmw on Wednesday 26th January 09:23
Not sure what you yhink you are gaining from dot 4 which is why I asked the question but the answer seems null and void. We are just going through the motions of ordering 25L currently and were planning to just go with what we had last time as it has been no problem and not all of the cars are trailered to tracks.
Acapulco99 said:
Why would you use dot 4 fluid? Surely a good quality high wbp dot 5.1 is better.
Not necessarily better.Dot 5.1 has a slightly higher boiling point than Dot 4. Which is good.
Dot 5.1 is more hygroscopic, (absorbs water) than Dot 4. Which isn't so good.
After a lot of reading some time ago I settled for a good quality Dot 4. I used the Halfords Dot 4 Racing brake fluid for about 50 TD's and a hand full of sprints on high powered TVR's without one glitch. Sadly it's not available any more so I have moved over to ATE TYP 200 racing quality Dot 4, (German product available from good motor factors) which I use in my track vRS and Boxster S. Again, both used on track, the Skoda brakes especially get red hot and no issues.
https://www.rivalmotorsport.co.uk/ate-typ-200-raci...
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