Clio RS200 Cup or something else?
Discussion
Morning all,
I'm again in the market for a new track car, although it most remain road legal as it will be used on roads occasionally,
My most recent track car is an R53 Mini Cooper S which has just failed an MOT and is now not worth my while throwing more cash into, It had a 15% pully, decent tyres and a bucket seat but otherwise standard and has served me well for 18 months ish.
Before that I had a Mazda MX-5 NB, again pretty standard apart from track tyres, rust killed that in the end
Prior to that a Mk6 Fiesta ST which was stripped out on coilovers and a few other bits.
All my cars so far have cost under 2k to buy, I buy cheap and run them to death so far then replace withy something else.
I'm now thinking I want to spend a bit more cash, up to 5K budget to get something a bit more purposeful.
My daily car is a BMW M240i which will be staying with me but it's too valuable to risk taking it on track, and repair costs would be high if something goes wrong.
Ideally i'm looking at FWD because when the snow is bad where I live I can't get the BMW off my drive but small FWD car's generally cope well.
The Clio RS200 Cup seems well suited to my needs in that it already has the Cup suspension, Brembo brakes and I would buy one with the recaro seats but am I missing any other options? I'm also tempted by a Civic Type-R and a Mk7 Fiesta ST (Likely to be a Cat N though).
Any views welcome
I'm again in the market for a new track car, although it most remain road legal as it will be used on roads occasionally,
My most recent track car is an R53 Mini Cooper S which has just failed an MOT and is now not worth my while throwing more cash into, It had a 15% pully, decent tyres and a bucket seat but otherwise standard and has served me well for 18 months ish.
Before that I had a Mazda MX-5 NB, again pretty standard apart from track tyres, rust killed that in the end
Prior to that a Mk6 Fiesta ST which was stripped out on coilovers and a few other bits.
All my cars so far have cost under 2k to buy, I buy cheap and run them to death so far then replace withy something else.
I'm now thinking I want to spend a bit more cash, up to 5K budget to get something a bit more purposeful.
My daily car is a BMW M240i which will be staying with me but it's too valuable to risk taking it on track, and repair costs would be high if something goes wrong.
Ideally i'm looking at FWD because when the snow is bad where I live I can't get the BMW off my drive but small FWD car's generally cope well.
The Clio RS200 Cup seems well suited to my needs in that it already has the Cup suspension, Brembo brakes and I would buy one with the recaro seats but am I missing any other options? I'm also tempted by a Civic Type-R and a Mk7 Fiesta ST (Likely to be a Cat N though).
Any views welcome
Morning OP
I used to track BMWs and now I have a Clio RS200 (cup pack). I can honestly say they are superb cars, you really have to know how to pedal to drive one fast on a track.
Don't assume because they are FWD that they will be boring, honestly, my Clio goes sideways more than my BMWs used to.
The downside to Clio ownership is the gearbox. Mine has just decided to die on me, so it's being rebuilt over xmas. This issue also affects the EP3 Type R. Budget £1200 a gearbox synchro rebuild, new clutch and slave.
To summarise a Clio for a track car - handling is unreal, braking is superb with the Brembo's, but straight-line speed is a bit on the boring side (for me)
I used to track BMWs and now I have a Clio RS200 (cup pack). I can honestly say they are superb cars, you really have to know how to pedal to drive one fast on a track.
Don't assume because they are FWD that they will be boring, honestly, my Clio goes sideways more than my BMWs used to.
The downside to Clio ownership is the gearbox. Mine has just decided to die on me, so it's being rebuilt over xmas. This issue also affects the EP3 Type R. Budget £1200 a gearbox synchro rebuild, new clutch and slave.
To summarise a Clio for a track car - handling is unreal, braking is superb with the Brembo's, but straight-line speed is a bit on the boring side (for me)
I've just got a 200 but not out on track for the first time until January.
Similar thought process to you by the looks of it - it'll work on track pretty much standard. I have only uprated the pads and changed some fluids.
Mine had a new gearbox fitted under warranty with Renault at about 30k miles.
I don't have the recaro's and won't be putting OE seats in if I go that way as the going rate seems to be around £1.5k!
On a £5k budget I'd be surprised if you're able to find a decent 200 in the current market, especially with buckets... 197 might be a bit easier to find and from what I hear the difference isn't as night and day journalist reviews state.
Similar thought process to you by the looks of it - it'll work on track pretty much standard. I have only uprated the pads and changed some fluids.
Mine had a new gearbox fitted under warranty with Renault at about 30k miles.
I don't have the recaro's and won't be putting OE seats in if I go that way as the going rate seems to be around £1.5k!
On a £5k budget I'd be surprised if you're able to find a decent 200 in the current market, especially with buckets... 197 might be a bit easier to find and from what I hear the difference isn't as night and day journalist reviews state.
adam2922 said:
I've just got a 200 but not out on track for the first time until January.
Similar thought process to you by the looks of it - it'll work on track pretty much standard. I have only uprated the pads and changed some fluids.
Mine had a new gearbox fitted under warranty with Renault at about 30k miles.
I don't have the recaro's and won't be putting OE seats in if I go that way as the going rate seems to be around £1.5k!
On a £5k budget I'd be surprised if you're able to find a decent 200 in the current market, especially with buckets... 197 might be a bit easier to find and from what I hear the difference isn't as night and day journalist reviews state.
I'm seeing quite a few 200's around at the budget, albeit with higher mileage but that doesn't worry me as it's a second car and if I look to my soon to be departed Mini as a reference it will only do 2-3k a year, if I allow budget creep to 6k theres lower mileage options, are all 200's the same underneath but some had the Cup pack added on or is the Cup a seperate model in itself? I need to look into that Similar thought process to you by the looks of it - it'll work on track pretty much standard. I have only uprated the pads and changed some fluids.
Mine had a new gearbox fitted under warranty with Renault at about 30k miles.
I don't have the recaro's and won't be putting OE seats in if I go that way as the going rate seems to be around £1.5k!
On a £5k budget I'd be surprised if you're able to find a decent 200 in the current market, especially with buckets... 197 might be a bit easier to find and from what I hear the difference isn't as night and day journalist reviews state.
I've seen one with the Recaro's at £5500 but I need to clear some driveway space or the Mrs is going to lose it, so I need to get the MOT failure Mini gone first.
Edited by Jamescrs on Wednesday 15th December 14:20
Edited by Jamescrs on Wednesday 15th December 14:20
Being the owner of a 200 cup I can thoroughly recommend one as a track car…had mine for 18 months now and did Goodwood in the summer! They are tremendous fun and corner very well, as previously stated they’re not the quickest car on long straights but you can certainly use its excellent handling / braking capabilities to make up time on other sections! I’d also recommend the recaro’s, very comfortable seats!
Here’s a photo of mine at Goodwood…
Here’s a photo of mine at Goodwood…
adam2922 said:
Good news if you can! There are two different models - 200 Cups and 200's with Cup pack added.
There are some minor differences between the two - mostly in terms if equipment - keyless entry and that sort of thing.
I think looking at it more it seems the majority of the 200's i'm seeing are 200's with the Cup pack added on, not sure what the difference is I need to do some more research on that. There are some minor differences between the two - mostly in terms if equipment - keyless entry and that sort of thing.
Edited by adam2922 on Wednesday 15th December 17:32
The Civic FN2's are still a possibility although leaning towards the Clio.
Not interested in the BMW 325Ti, whilst I think it's a great car in its own right I don't need two BMW's on the drive.
The Cup vs Cup Pack vs Non Cup discussion is only really relevant if you're going to keep the car completely stock. Cup cars really are quite raw if someone didn't tick anything on the options box, but are most suited to track in standard form.
Mine is a 197 Non cup, so had 'luxuries' such as cruise control and AC.
For years i ran the 200 Cup shocks and lowering springs, and they were great. The inability to change the front suspension geometry necessitated the purchase of coilovers. These along with the plated LSD i've fitted have taken the car to the next level.
Obviously it all depends on how far you want to do with things.
There's a group of 8 of us who all have a mixture of 200's and 197's which we use only really use for trackdays now. They're a right laugh, and have been mostly quite reliable. They really aren't fast down the straights, and it does get quite frustrating catching people in a braking zone, only for them to fly off down the straights.
The gearbox issues are prevalent, but all of the 197's and 200's are getting to that age now where things are starting to fail. Every car has it's issues...
We have an Instagram page called @trackbaguettes if you fancy having a look at some of the antics we get up to.
Mine is a 197 Non cup, so had 'luxuries' such as cruise control and AC.
For years i ran the 200 Cup shocks and lowering springs, and they were great. The inability to change the front suspension geometry necessitated the purchase of coilovers. These along with the plated LSD i've fitted have taken the car to the next level.
Obviously it all depends on how far you want to do with things.
There's a group of 8 of us who all have a mixture of 200's and 197's which we use only really use for trackdays now. They're a right laugh, and have been mostly quite reliable. They really aren't fast down the straights, and it does get quite frustrating catching people in a braking zone, only for them to fly off down the straights.
The gearbox issues are prevalent, but all of the 197's and 200's are getting to that age now where things are starting to fail. Every car has it's issues...
We have an Instagram page called @trackbaguettes if you fancy having a look at some of the antics we get up to.
Jamescrs said:
I think looking at it more it seems the majority of the 200's i'm seeing are 200's with the Cup pack added on, not sure what the difference is I need to do some more research on that.
The Civic FN2's are still a possibility although leaning towards the Clio.
Not interested in the BMW 325Ti, whilst I think it's a great car in its own right I don't need two BMW's on the drive.
The Cup was incredibly basic with no good interior options.The Civic FN2's are still a possibility although leaning towards the Clio.
Not interested in the BMW 325Ti, whilst I think it's a great car in its own right I don't need two BMW's on the drive.
The Clios with the cup pack added on are often referred to as 'full fat Clios'. You could have soft touch dash, climate control, keyless go and different radio/CD player/sat nav options and had more body coloured exterior parts rather than black.
Only difference is the 'proper' cup is lighter.
I have the latter
Jamescrs said:
I think looking at it more it seems the majority of the 200's i'm seeing are 200's with the Cup pack added on, not sure what the difference is I need to do some more research on that.
The Civic FN2's are still a possibility although leaning towards the Clio.
Not interested in the BMW 325Ti, whilst I think it's a great car in its own right I don't need two BMW's on the drive.
Cup - nothing inside, proper key ignition, different shocks and springsThe Civic FN2's are still a possibility although leaning towards the Clio.
Not interested in the BMW 325Ti, whilst I think it's a great car in its own right I don't need two BMW's on the drive.
Cup pack - AC, Cruise, keycard ignition, keyless entry etc etc, the shocks and springs from the Cup above
Non Cup (sometimes referred to as Full Fat/FF) - AC, Cruise, keycard ignition, keyless entry etc etc, normal shocks and springs
All of the parts are interchangeable between different years, and to add more confusion to it, you could order a 200 Cup, and then specify AC on the options list.
Like I said on my previous reply though, it's all about what you want. I wouldn't not buy a Cup pack/Non cup car if you're going to be doings bits to it anyway.
I recently bought a glacier white 200 Cup, completely standard car with 57k on the clock.
I didn't set out looking specifically for a Cup, and since it's really for commuting and will never see a track in my hands, it's fair to day it's a strange choice on my part. All I wanted was low miles, relatively standard, without paying silly money, and this one came up on one of the facebook groups.
In terms of the Cup v Standard:
stiffer suspension, which is also slightly lower
quicker steering rack
lower spec steering wheel - thinner, no stereo controls and no reach adjustment
hard plastic dash and door panels
standard keys
no keyless entry
no start button
manual heating/vent controls (A/C was an option)
manual mirrors (you only have to look at them when washing and they move)
unpainted mirrors and door rub strips (first thing you'd usually notice)
no front fog lights
rear seat is not split folding
no rear headrests
Most want the recaros but I wasn't fussed due to the common bolster wear. Turns out the standard ones suffer too. As has already been mentioned, good second hand recaros are around £1500 if you think about adding later.
There's 7 Cups listed on Autotrader this morning, surprisingly of those only one seems to be a Cup packed car, and there's even one around your budget with recaros.
Good luck.
I didn't set out looking specifically for a Cup, and since it's really for commuting and will never see a track in my hands, it's fair to day it's a strange choice on my part. All I wanted was low miles, relatively standard, without paying silly money, and this one came up on one of the facebook groups.
In terms of the Cup v Standard:
stiffer suspension, which is also slightly lower
quicker steering rack
lower spec steering wheel - thinner, no stereo controls and no reach adjustment
hard plastic dash and door panels
standard keys
no keyless entry
no start button
manual heating/vent controls (A/C was an option)
manual mirrors (you only have to look at them when washing and they move)
unpainted mirrors and door rub strips (first thing you'd usually notice)
no front fog lights
rear seat is not split folding
no rear headrests
Most want the recaros but I wasn't fussed due to the common bolster wear. Turns out the standard ones suffer too. As has already been mentioned, good second hand recaros are around £1500 if you think about adding later.
There's 7 Cups listed on Autotrader this morning, surprisingly of those only one seems to be a Cup packed car, and there's even one around your budget with recaros.
Good luck.
Thanks for all the inputs everyone, some great information on here.
I think the Recaro's will be a nice to have rather than a necessity having looked further on Autotrader and eBay in the main, some great looking Cup cars without the Recaro's about.
U'll update the thread hopefully next month when I make a purchase
I think the Recaro's will be a nice to have rather than a necessity having looked further on Autotrader and eBay in the main, some great looking Cup cars without the Recaro's about.
U'll update the thread hopefully next month when I make a purchase
Just requested to follow you as I’m contemplating turning my cup in to a track only car
Mac. said:
If you’re going to track it then I’d not worry about the Recaros, they’re heavy and whilst aftermarket mounts are available, they sit high up. Better with a set of aftermarket seats IMO (cheaper too).
Have a look at my Instagram @R20BTG for a track RS200 build
Have a look at my Instagram @R20BTG for a track RS200 build
I was going to say, if you want a track car then surely buy the cheapest Clio you can and that way you can spend your savings on a proper seat, not a road-going one.
Bear in mind the 197 isn't much different; it has a slower steering rack and it geared higher (in the lower gears, anyway), but it has more camber adjustment.
Bear in mind the 197 isn't much different; it has a slower steering rack and it geared higher (in the lower gears, anyway), but it has more camber adjustment.
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