Bedford in cold/wet
Discussion
Going to Bedford this Saturday and just wondering what the best thing is in terms of tyres. Currently have R888R fitted on my e46 m3, would these be ok in wet/cold weather? Currently forecasted for a bit of sleet and 4 degrees temp.
I do already have a spare set of PS4 tyres (not PS4S). Should i fit these instead?
How about tyre pressures? Keep the same as usual?
I do already have a spare set of PS4 tyres (not PS4S). Should i fit these instead?
How about tyre pressures? Keep the same as usual?
Tricky. I assume the PS4 are loose rather than on spare wheels that you could take with you.
The other question is were you planning to swap to the PS4 soon anyway but you wonder if you should do it before or after Bedford?
Also, how far are you from the Autodrome? And how much tread depth do you have left on the 888?
I personally don't like to fit brand new road tyres just before a track day as I feel the first 2mm disappear very quickly, at least in the dry, whereas from say 5/6mm the wear is more acceptable.
So depending on your answers to the first points, I would probably try to stay on the 888R as you will eventually get heat in them if it stays dry(ish) and they're OK in the wet and the runs offs are huge.
On the other hand if it rains all day, the PS4 will probably perform better but in the dry the sidewalls will deform quite a lot and you'll quickly damage the front outside shoulders....
From a pressure POV start at road pressure and after 2/3 laps check by how much it has gone up and adjust down if needed.
The other question is were you planning to swap to the PS4 soon anyway but you wonder if you should do it before or after Bedford?
Also, how far are you from the Autodrome? And how much tread depth do you have left on the 888?
I personally don't like to fit brand new road tyres just before a track day as I feel the first 2mm disappear very quickly, at least in the dry, whereas from say 5/6mm the wear is more acceptable.
So depending on your answers to the first points, I would probably try to stay on the 888R as you will eventually get heat in them if it stays dry(ish) and they're OK in the wet and the runs offs are huge.
On the other hand if it rains all day, the PS4 will probably perform better but in the dry the sidewalls will deform quite a lot and you'll quickly damage the front outside shoulders....
From a pressure POV start at road pressure and after 2/3 laps check by how much it has gone up and adjust down if needed.
if you know its going to be cold and wet, i'd swap onto the PS4s. they will clear standing water better, and will work a lot better when they are cold. if you go on R888Rs you'll never get any heat in them.
Oh, and i hope you're happy going sideways! bedford is an ice rink when its cold and wet. I predict you'll spin on the exit of turn 1. and then again at the new swimming pool chicane. and then again exiting the corner onto the back straight.
Though, as long as you avoid spinning in front of everyone at heros corner (the last fast right hander) you'll be ok.
Oh, and i hope you're happy going sideways! bedford is an ice rink when its cold and wet. I predict you'll spin on the exit of turn 1. and then again at the new swimming pool chicane. and then again exiting the corner onto the back straight.
Though, as long as you avoid spinning in front of everyone at heros corner (the last fast right hander) you'll be ok.
No unfortunately have them unmounted. The PS4 are new as well and as i have just tomorrow i might just leave the R888R on and see what happens!
I’ve already done a massive slide on the exit of the last corner previously in the dry! Hopefully any spins are in the open, will just take it v easy on that last corner and turn 1 - no point trying to push it on my first wet day.
Will just adjust my lines, does bedford suffer from poor grip on the racing line in the wet? Also guessing its probably best to soften the damping, its a very stiff set up at the moment.
Tyre pressures are a confusing one, i run 38 hot in the dry, might run at 40 to try and help with temps, or keep them low to help with grip?
I’ve already done a massive slide on the exit of the last corner previously in the dry! Hopefully any spins are in the open, will just take it v easy on that last corner and turn 1 - no point trying to push it on my first wet day.
Will just adjust my lines, does bedford suffer from poor grip on the racing line in the wet? Also guessing its probably best to soften the damping, its a very stiff set up at the moment.
Tyre pressures are a confusing one, i run 38 hot in the dry, might run at 40 to try and help with temps, or keep them low to help with grip?
mob17 said:
No unfortunately have them unmounted. The PS4 are new as well and as i have just tomorrow i might just leave the R888R on and see what happens!
I’ve already done a massive slide on the exit of the last corner previously in the dry! Hopefully any spins are in the open, will just take it v easy on that last corner and turn 1 - no point trying to push it on my first wet day.
Will just adjust my lines, does bedford suffer from poor grip on the racing line in the wet? Also guessing its probably best to soften the damping, its a very stiff set up at the moment.
Tyre pressures are a confusing one, i run 38 hot in the dry, might run at 40 to try and help with temps, or keep them low to help with grip?
You’ll probably need to play with temperatures as the day goes on to find the sweet spot. 38 hot seems huge to me, I run 30 hot but different cars, Tyres sizes etc influence that. I’ve already done a massive slide on the exit of the last corner previously in the dry! Hopefully any spins are in the open, will just take it v easy on that last corner and turn 1 - no point trying to push it on my first wet day.
Will just adjust my lines, does bedford suffer from poor grip on the racing line in the wet? Also guessing its probably best to soften the damping, its a very stiff set up at the moment.
Tyre pressures are a confusing one, i run 38 hot in the dry, might run at 40 to try and help with temps, or keep them low to help with grip?
On the plus to all this, there isn’t a huge amount of stuff to hit (there is some but overall not a lot), I’ve found for my car the chicane in the middle of the back straight to be the most slippery part as it’s so ingrained to cut the kerbs in and out but thankfully it’s Astro turfed there
My experience of semi slicks is that they need heat to make them work. I’ve tried running running NS2R’s which are B rated for wet grip in cold, wet conditions. They provided no grip whatsoever. The PS4’s are the way to go. Recently, I have been using Eagle F1 Supersports. They work great in cold wet conditions and can handle the dry, if things improve. Best bit is, no changing tyres around or gambling on which tyres to fit. PS4S are also good (so I hear). I’d go road pressure in cold and wet.
Please report back your experience of the day on the PS4s.
Like you I usually do track days on R888Rs, but do have a set of rain tyres mounted on wheels for normal road use.
I find R888Rs, on a lighter car (1080 kg) and rear wheel drive, to be a long way short of fun on a cold wet day.
Last time I tried it I seriously debated swapping to my 2.7 diesel Mercedes ML
Like you I usually do track days on R888Rs, but do have a set of rain tyres mounted on wheels for normal road use.
I find R888Rs, on a lighter car (1080 kg) and rear wheel drive, to be a long way short of fun on a cold wet day.
Last time I tried it I seriously debated swapping to my 2.7 diesel Mercedes ML
Just got back.
First session was rubbish, too many cars all bunched together so constantly had to brake earlier, was like a sightling lap to be honest. But after that with more space it was so much fun.
The decision to put PS4 on was absolutely the right decision today! Sharper turn in (vs R888R) and so much grip when it was wet and raining. Balance was very neutral (that might just be my setup) and was very progressive on the limit and corrections easy to make. I did lock up the fronts a few times but was better when rain stopped for a bit, and i also reduced pressures from 36hot to 32hot, felt much better. But glad to report didnt spin today.
Was overtaking a lot of cars, which i suspect were on traditional dry trackday tyres such as the R888R. Went out for a good 45 mins and tyres were still fine, i came back as i didnt want to get tired and lose it.
A lot of cars spun, one yellow lotus on the sighting lap! Also one poor guy flipped his car near the start of the back straight and saw him crawling out. Not sure how that happened but at least he was ok.
Happy with the PS4 (not PS4s) for wet track days. Will keep these in case i go to another wet day.
First session was rubbish, too many cars all bunched together so constantly had to brake earlier, was like a sightling lap to be honest. But after that with more space it was so much fun.
The decision to put PS4 on was absolutely the right decision today! Sharper turn in (vs R888R) and so much grip when it was wet and raining. Balance was very neutral (that might just be my setup) and was very progressive on the limit and corrections easy to make. I did lock up the fronts a few times but was better when rain stopped for a bit, and i also reduced pressures from 36hot to 32hot, felt much better. But glad to report didnt spin today.
Was overtaking a lot of cars, which i suspect were on traditional dry trackday tyres such as the R888R. Went out for a good 45 mins and tyres were still fine, i came back as i didnt want to get tired and lose it.
A lot of cars spun, one yellow lotus on the sighting lap! Also one poor guy flipped his car near the start of the back straight and saw him crawling out. Not sure how that happened but at least he was ok.
Happy with the PS4 (not PS4s) for wet track days. Will keep these in case i go to another wet day.
Edited by mob17 on Saturday 27th November 17:16
Glad you had a good day. I’m just about to put a set of new PS4S on my Cayman, I thought about other tyres but for winter trackdays PS4S seem like a good choice.
As for the guy who flipped his car - that sounds awful. Bedford is often said to be one of the safest tracks in the country. There’s a youtube of an M3 which rolled on the straight in front of the pits, but that’s from 8 years ago and I thought these kind of accidents weren’t common there.
As for the guy who flipped his car - that sounds awful. Bedford is often said to be one of the safest tracks in the country. There’s a youtube of an M3 which rolled on the straight in front of the pits, but that’s from 8 years ago and I thought these kind of accidents weren’t common there.
My pal was there today too in his E30. He spun once but managed to avoid mischief.
He said general consensus was that the guy who rolled (GT86) either lost traction on an upshift or did a money shift and it all went south from there. He said at the place he hit the tyres (before rolling) would have been circa 90mph in a GT86 but assume some energy had been scrubbed off before the impact.
He said general consensus was that the guy who rolled (GT86) either lost traction on an upshift or did a money shift and it all went south from there. He said at the place he hit the tyres (before rolling) would have been circa 90mph in a GT86 but assume some energy had been scrubbed off before the impact.
px1980 said:
Glad you had a good day. I’m just about to put a set of new PS4S on my Cayman, I thought about other tyres but for winter trackdays PS4S seem like a good choice.
As for the guy who flipped his car - that sounds awful. Bedford is often said to be one of the safest tracks in the country. There’s a youtube of an M3 which rolled on the straight in front of the pits, but that’s from 8 years ago and I thought these kind of accidents weren’t common there.
I would have got the PS4S but at the time i was desperate and the only tyres they had was PS4 (i was at bedford and one of the tyres shredded so just went to local tyre place). Not sure what the wet performance is like between PS4 and PS4S. As for the guy who flipped his car - that sounds awful. Bedford is often said to be one of the safest tracks in the country. There’s a youtube of an M3 which rolled on the straight in front of the pits, but that’s from 8 years ago and I thought these kind of accidents weren’t common there.
Yes i’ve seen that M3 video too and haven’t heard of any others. Todays accident was strange as it wasnt near a corner, it was a bit further up after the hairpin to the back straight. He didnt have a roll cage either so lucky he was ok. His roof did look caved in. Dont think he had insurance. Feel sorry for the guy but main thing is he walked free.
px1980 said:
As for the guy who flipped his car - that sounds awful. Bedford is often said to be one of the safest tracks in the country. There’s a youtube of an M3 which rolled on the straight in front of the pits, but that’s from 8 years ago and I thought these kind of accidents weren’t common there.
Some of us have been pretty vocal (and widely ignored) in the past on the delusion of how safe Bedford is and the stupidity of suggesting it’s great for novices because they can crash with impunity 
.Steve H said:
Some of us have been pretty vocal (and widely ignored) in the past on the delusion of how safe Bedford is and the stupidity of suggesting it’s great for novices because they can crash with impunity .
I don't think you've been ignored Steve as your point about a false sense of security is quite valid in some cases. .I would still suggest it's great for novices in many cases, depending on their attitude of course.
As an instructor and a successful Cayman racer you certainly know what you are talking about Steve.
And as a rank amateur track dayer (but keen follower of your Cayman build thread) I can honestly say I have had more spins and off-track excursions in three visits to Bedford than I have had in over 10 visits to Cadwell Park, a track many people think of as challenging for beginners.
And as a rank amateur track dayer (but keen follower of your Cayman build thread) I can honestly say I have had more spins and off-track excursions in three visits to Bedford than I have had in over 10 visits to Cadwell Park, a track many people think of as challenging for beginners.
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