Anyone at Silverstone with MSE today ?
Discussion
Mate went and left early as the driving standards were appalling.
Race cars on track at the same time as total novices.
He nealry got wiped out as 2 cars went round BOTH sides after he slowed behind a novice - who then panics and clouted one of the overtaking cars.
Luckily my my pal had already gone wide and wasnt caught up in it.
Huge billboard at sign declaring "no thinly disguised race cars etc etc" and there were pure race cars on track.
Also, very very few marshalls as well.
Shame , MSE used to run a tight ship, or certainly have when Ive used them for airfield days.
Race cars on track at the same time as total novices.
He nealry got wiped out as 2 cars went round BOTH sides after he slowed behind a novice - who then panics and clouted one of the overtaking cars.
Luckily my my pal had already gone wide and wasnt caught up in it.
Huge billboard at sign declaring "no thinly disguised race cars etc etc" and there were pure race cars on track.
Also, very very few marshalls as well.
Shame , MSE used to run a tight ship, or certainly have when Ive used them for airfield days.
FurtiveFreddy said:
Were either of them a black Audi? Two of those were causing trouble at MSE's Thruxton day yesterday...
There was definitely some "interesting" driving at Thruxton yesterday but I mainly put that down to track day newcomers. It got better in the afternoon and other than a few people who didn't seem to know where their mirrors were, I didn't see any particularly aggressive driving (dive bombing etc).I personally didn't have an issue with the black audi (do you mean the race car one?). They didn't seem to be causing any issues...unlike me on my last session where I ended up mowing the grass at Church and then destroying a cone at Goodwood (I decided to call it a day after that and go home whilst my car was still in one piece)
Edited by LennyM1984 on Sunday 10th October 07:36
LennyM1984 said:
There was definitely some "interesting" driving at Thruxton yesterday but I mainly put that down to track day newcomers. It got better in the afternoon and other than a few people who didn't seem to know where their mirrors were, I didn't see any particularly aggressive driving (dive bombing etc).
I personally didn't have an issue with the black audi (do you mean the race car one?). They didn't seem to be causing any issues...unlike me on my last session where I ended up mowing the grass at Church and then destroying a cone at Goodwood (I decided to call it a day after that and go home whilst my car was still in one piece)
Well, a couple of my group had less than ideal encounters with that racey Audi. Both times on approaches to corners, both times without any indication from the car in front that it was OK to do so. You can't expect people to be looking in their mirrors all the time on the approach to corners. He got a talking to, but there's no place for driving like that, particularly on a 'non-race car' trackday.I personally didn't have an issue with the black audi (do you mean the race car one?). They didn't seem to be causing any issues...unlike me on my last session where I ended up mowing the grass at Church and then destroying a cone at Goodwood (I decided to call it a day after that and go home whilst my car was still in one piece)
I saw another black Audi road car overtake someone on the inside at Church.
Hopefully that wasn't you, Loggyboy!
I`ve heard quite a bit about that Thruxton event from friends who were there on the day.
They apparently had cones on the actual circuit ! Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.
FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
They apparently had cones on the actual circuit !
Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
Wh00sher said:
I`ve heard quite a bit about that Thruxton event from friends who were there on the day.
They apparently had cones on the actual circuit ! Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.
FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
MSE always put loads of cones out in the middle of the track. The ones out the back after Noble cover about a 20m stretch to aid the entry to Goodwood, I guess it helps the novices but I would like to see them put away in PM to allow people to play with their own lines. One of those was knocked over, but that wasnt in the track, and the over was on the entry the complex and only a few cms on to the track and I would guess a red flag for 1 cone is a little pointless. It did look like a there was a lack of Marshalls though.They apparently had cones on the actual circuit !
Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
I caught one of the pit entry cones in the Kia when I was diving out the way! but it did a flip and landed back on its base.
The video briefing was no less dull than the live one! Well at least the 1st 5 mins was
lol Wh00sher said:
I`ve heard quite a bit about that Thruxton event from friends who were there on the day.
They apparently had cones on the actual circuit ! Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.
FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
The cones weren't an issue if you were on the correct line, including one or two knocked over that I saw. The ones in question were the very small ones anyway so it's not difficult to just knock them out of the way if necessary.They apparently had cones on the actual circuit !
Pit entry so people couldn`t move out of the way exiting the chicane to let faster cars past. Then at various other corners and apex where cones were knocked onto the circuit and left for up to an hour.FurtiveFreddy, hopefully you weren`t in the group of Teslas who sat on the left of the circuit and didn`t let people past.
Only good thing about it would mean you didn`t need to sit through the unbelieveably long and dull MSE briefing
You weren't there to witness the driving standards, I was. Maybe your friends were the ones who were sent home?
All the Teslas I saw were well behaved and moved over pretty quickly when approached, so again maybe your mates were not being honest with the truth or had some sort of grievance?
It is a shame track days seem to now attract those who either don't understand rules or think they can ignore them. It's not just MSE by any means.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 11th October 19:57
"The video briefing was no less dull than the live one! Well at least the 1st 5 mins was wink lol"
Oh dear. They do seem to have mastered the art of dragging it out in whatever form it takes don't they!
I've seen video from the cars following the Teslas. Jumping out of the way they were not
No, my friends weren't sent home. They had an enjoyable day but commented on the unnecessary cones and Teslas afterwards, that's all.
"The ones in question were the very small ones anyway so it's not difficult to just knock them out of the way if necessary."
Surely having to run into an obstruction placed on the track to take the right line is a sign that they shouldn't be there in the first place
" It is a shame track days seem to now attract those who either don't understand rules or think they can ignore them. It's not just MSE by any means."
Agreed.
Oh dear. They do seem to have mastered the art of dragging it out in whatever form it takes don't they!
I've seen video from the cars following the Teslas. Jumping out of the way they were not
No, my friends weren't sent home. They had an enjoyable day but commented on the unnecessary cones and Teslas afterwards, that's all.
"The ones in question were the very small ones anyway so it's not difficult to just knock them out of the way if necessary."
Surely having to run into an obstruction placed on the track to take the right line is a sign that they shouldn't be there in the first place
" It is a shame track days seem to now attract those who either don't understand rules or think they can ignore them. It's not just MSE by any means."
Agreed.
FurtiveFreddy said:
The cones weren't an issue if you were on the correct line, including one or two knocked over that I saw. The ones in question were the very small ones anyway so it's not difficult to just knock them out of the way if necessary.
You weren't there to witness the driving standards, I was. Maybe your friends were the ones who were sent home?
All the Teslas I saw were well behaved and moved over pretty quickly when approached, so again maybe your mates were not being honest with the truth or had some sort of grievance?
It is a shame track days seem to now attract those who either don't understand rules or think they can ignore them. It's not just MSE by any means.
You know, it's REALLY difficult to construct a reply to this, without coming across as a complete Dick, but hey, it's worth a go....You weren't there to witness the driving standards, I was. Maybe your friends were the ones who were sent home?
All the Teslas I saw were well behaved and moved over pretty quickly when approached, so again maybe your mates were not being honest with the truth or had some sort of grievance?
It is a shame track days seem to now attract those who either don't understand rules or think they can ignore them. It's not just MSE by any means.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 11th October 19:57
Firstly, the cones ARE an issue:
On pit entry, they stop a slower car bleeding off immediately to the right on the exit of the chicane.
On the pit exit they get continuously knocked into your path so your entry to turn 1 is always tentative, as you never know how many comes will be sat on the exit in your path.
On all 3 corners of the complex, the cones are sat on the very edge of the apex kerb you might otherwise run, stopping you doing so, to what end?
On the inside of Noble, a kerb you'd often run, it's all coned off, making the corner wider. What's gained from this?
On the entry to Goodwood, the sweeping line of cones heading in stops a wider line and forces you to treat it with caution.
Through the chicane, cones are again placed right on the apex on the kerbs, making it impossible to run kerbs or take a decent line through the chicane.
Any instruction you get will recommend you make use of the kerbs to your advantage. They're there to be used, and well within the confines of track limits as defined by MSUK, so to suggest they wern't in the way, does perhaps highlight a lack of experience....
Secondly, to follow on from the above, that same degree of inexperience is apparent in the overtaking etiquette shown by a certain group of popular battery operated vehicles present on the day. Of course, popular urban myth and a man named Elon do suggest they're the fastest thing on the road, but it appears that's not always the case, and sometimes owners of these super EVs find themselves surprised by a fossil fueled vehicle in their mirrors.
Now, knowing how quiet these magical electric beasts are, it's hard to believe you wouldn't hear old Dino juice roaring up behind you, so to stay hard left for the duration of an entire straight, with no other vehicles around, is a fair old statement of defiance. So it shouldn't come as too great a surprise that when you brake 200m early and pull right, to find old Dino juice carries on on his way and brakes at the actual braking point, before carrying on his way.
Thirdly, the black Audi in question is Taxed, insured, MOT'd, and was driven both to and from the circuit, with no support vehicle. It ran with number plates all day, and has as much right to be there as any other road car, as confirmed by the details in the FAQ on the MSE website.
Lastly, nobody was sent home. A conversation was had, in which the actions of both parties were discussed, and it was agreed that the time and place meeting of 2 vehicles of extremely different capabilities was perhaps unfortunate, and that both parties could perhaps react differently should a similar situation arise again, and hopefully everyone can learn from the day, rather than holding a grudge and moaning about it on the internet
NV16 said:
You know, it's REALLY difficult to construct a reply to this, without coming across as a complete Dick, but hey, it's worth a go....
Firstly, the cones ARE an issue:
On pit entry, they stop a slower car bleeding off immediately to the right on the exit of the chicane.
On the pit exit they get continuously knocked into your path so your entry to turn 1 is always tentative, as you never know how many comes will be sat on the exit in your path.
On all 3 corners of the complex, the cones are sat on the very edge of the apex kerb you might otherwise run, stopping you doing so, to what end?
On the inside of Noble, a kerb you'd often run, it's all coned off, making the corner wider. What's gained from this?
On the entry to Goodwood, the sweeping line of cones heading in stops a wider line and forces you to treat it with caution.
Through the chicane, cones are again placed right on the apex on the kerbs, making it impossible to run kerbs or take a decent line through the chicane.
Any instruction you get will recommend you make use of the kerbs to your advantage. They're there to be used, and well within the confines of track limits as defined by MSUK, so to suggest they wern't in the way, does perhaps highlight a lack of experience....
Secondly, to follow on from the above, that same degree of inexperience is apparent in the overtaking etiquette shown by a certain group of popular battery operated vehicles present on the day. Of course, popular urban myth and a man named Elon do suggest they're the fastest thing on the road, but it appears that's not always the case, and sometimes owners of these super EVs find themselves surprised by a fossil fueled vehicle in their mirrors.
Now, knowing how quiet these magical electric beasts are, it's hard to believe you wouldn't hear old Dino juice roaring up behind you, so to stay hard left for the duration of an entire straight, with no other vehicles around, is a fair old statement of defiance. So it shouldn't come as too great a surprise that when you brake 200m early and pull right, to find old Dino juice carries on on his way and brakes at the actual braking point, before carrying on his way.
Thirdly, the black Audi in question is Taxed, insured, MOT'd, and was driven both to and from the circuit, with no support vehicle. It ran with number plates all day, and has as much right to be there as any other road car, as confirmed by the details in the FAQ on the MSE website.
Lastly, nobody was sent home. A conversation was had, in which the actions of both parties were discussed, and it was agreed that the time and place meeting of 2 vehicles of extremely different capabilities was perhaps unfortunate, and that both parties could perhaps react differently should a similar situation arise again, and hopefully everyone can learn from the day, rather than holding a grudge and moaning about it on the internet
I'm well aware the Audi wasn't trailered, but it's a road legal race car (albeit with a novice square) and was being driven in a nob-like way, presumably by you?Firstly, the cones ARE an issue:
On pit entry, they stop a slower car bleeding off immediately to the right on the exit of the chicane.
On the pit exit they get continuously knocked into your path so your entry to turn 1 is always tentative, as you never know how many comes will be sat on the exit in your path.
On all 3 corners of the complex, the cones are sat on the very edge of the apex kerb you might otherwise run, stopping you doing so, to what end?
On the inside of Noble, a kerb you'd often run, it's all coned off, making the corner wider. What's gained from this?
On the entry to Goodwood, the sweeping line of cones heading in stops a wider line and forces you to treat it with caution.
Through the chicane, cones are again placed right on the apex on the kerbs, making it impossible to run kerbs or take a decent line through the chicane.
Any instruction you get will recommend you make use of the kerbs to your advantage. They're there to be used, and well within the confines of track limits as defined by MSUK, so to suggest they wern't in the way, does perhaps highlight a lack of experience....
Secondly, to follow on from the above, that same degree of inexperience is apparent in the overtaking etiquette shown by a certain group of popular battery operated vehicles present on the day. Of course, popular urban myth and a man named Elon do suggest they're the fastest thing on the road, but it appears that's not always the case, and sometimes owners of these super EVs find themselves surprised by a fossil fueled vehicle in their mirrors.
Now, knowing how quiet these magical electric beasts are, it's hard to believe you wouldn't hear old Dino juice roaring up behind you, so to stay hard left for the duration of an entire straight, with no other vehicles around, is a fair old statement of defiance. So it shouldn't come as too great a surprise that when you brake 200m early and pull right, to find old Dino juice carries on on his way and brakes at the actual braking point, before carrying on his way.
Thirdly, the black Audi in question is Taxed, insured, MOT'd, and was driven both to and from the circuit, with no support vehicle. It ran with number plates all day, and has as much right to be there as any other road car, as confirmed by the details in the FAQ on the MSE website.
Lastly, nobody was sent home. A conversation was had, in which the actions of both parties were discussed, and it was agreed that the time and place meeting of 2 vehicles of extremely different capabilities was perhaps unfortunate, and that both parties could perhaps react differently should a similar situation arise again, and hopefully everyone can learn from the day, rather than holding a grudge and moaning about it on the internet
As I said earlier and it's been said many times before, if you want to drive that way, pay the extra and go on a test day. You're going to cause an accident if you carry on the way you do. A lot of track day drivers just aren't expecting to be dive-bombed and they will react in a different way to experienced racers.
Wh00sher said:
"The video briefing was no less dull than the live one! Well at least the 1st 5 mins was wink lol"
Oh dear. They do seem to have mastered the art of dragging it out in whatever form it takes don't they!
interesting. My one bugbear with MSE events and why I choose not to use them any more ( to the point that I have to investigate the organiser on trackdays.co.uk so that it's not them that I plan to book)Oh dear. They do seem to have mastered the art of dragging it out in whatever form it takes don't they!
But yes, they really are dull, Ed can just about make it passable but the Irling Jenson ( I was named after Jenson Button) chap is difficult to understand and boring. And they are so long, 45 mins plus sometimes!
If MSE are reading this (and I bet they are) take the hint and shorten, liven up your briefings, they are counter productive and costing you customers.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
interesting. My one bugbear with MSE events and why I choose not to use them any more ( to the point that I have to investigate the organiser on trackdays.co.uk so that it's not them that I plan to book)
But yes, they really are dull, Ed can just about make it passable but the Irling Jenson ( I was named after Jenson Button) chap is difficult to understand and boring. And they are so long, 45 mins plus sometimes!
If MSE are reading this (and I bet they are) take the hint and shorten, liven up your briefings, they are counter productive and costing you customers.
I remember several years ago during a Thruxton one, guy on the front row fell asleep.But yes, they really are dull, Ed can just about make it passable but the Irling Jenson ( I was named after Jenson Button) chap is difficult to understand and boring. And they are so long, 45 mins plus sometimes!
If MSE are reading this (and I bet they are) take the hint and shorten, liven up your briefings, they are counter productive and costing you customers.
He stopped the briefing, woke him up then spent the next 15 minutes telling everyone the history of all the staff. Didn`t think to wonder why his previous 30 minutes had sent a customer to sleep.
Like you, I purposefully don't use them because of that one reason, but hearing about the cones on kerbs etc puts me off even more.
There is no reason to put cones on a kerb on a trackday. If it was advertised as a novice only, road car only day then MAYBE, but not for what this was, ie just a standard trackday.
Wh00sher said:
I remember several years ago during a Thruxton one, guy on the front row fell asleep.
He stopped the briefing, woke him up then spent the next 15 minutes telling everyone the history of all the staff. Didn`t think to wonder why his previous 30 minutes had sent a customer to sleep.
He stopped the briefing, woke him up then spent the next 15 minutes telling everyone the history of all the staff. Didn`t think to wonder why his previous 30 minutes had sent a customer to sleep.
That takes a special kind of obliviousness.
Cones on the road can have their place if done right, doesn't sound like they were in this instance. Cones on the kerbs just seems to miss the point.
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