MGF / MG-TF track car
Discussion
Morning all.
For the longest time I've had a strange soft spot for the MG-F/MG-TF, not as a road car but as a proper cheap starter track car.
Even with used car prices going nuts the selling platforms are still awash with <£750 MG's, I've only driven on one track not using my car (all Thruxton in either Vauxhalls as part of their VXR track days and Jaguars on a similar promotion) so even though I'm 90 odd laps in at Thruxton I still consider myself very much a track virgin.
With that in mind I don't really want to spend mega bucks getting a track car in case I don't end up using it as often as I think I might.
So to my question. Is an MG F or TF a good idea for a very cheap starter track car? I'd be driving to/from track to start with as Thruxton is only 40 mins away and goodwood is only 20 mins.
They don't have much power to start with - 135bhp versions are at the bottom end price wise but they are short wheelbase and mid engined which should make them a bit more lively and of course they're fairly light to start with at c 1100kg with 950kg possible when stripped down (which I wouldn't do until I start to trailer it).
Grateful for thoughts/alternatives from those with infinitely more track and track car experience than me!
For the longest time I've had a strange soft spot for the MG-F/MG-TF, not as a road car but as a proper cheap starter track car.
Even with used car prices going nuts the selling platforms are still awash with <£750 MG's, I've only driven on one track not using my car (all Thruxton in either Vauxhalls as part of their VXR track days and Jaguars on a similar promotion) so even though I'm 90 odd laps in at Thruxton I still consider myself very much a track virgin.
With that in mind I don't really want to spend mega bucks getting a track car in case I don't end up using it as often as I think I might.
So to my question. Is an MG F or TF a good idea for a very cheap starter track car? I'd be driving to/from track to start with as Thruxton is only 40 mins away and goodwood is only 20 mins.
They don't have much power to start with - 135bhp versions are at the bottom end price wise but they are short wheelbase and mid engined which should make them a bit more lively and of course they're fairly light to start with at c 1100kg with 950kg possible when stripped down (which I wouldn't do until I start to trailer it).
Grateful for thoughts/alternatives from those with infinitely more track and track car experience than me!
I had an MGF VVC back when they were relatively new.
Even then the hydrolastic suspension was a bit flakey and difficult to get sorted, nowadays I suspect the normal springs and dampers on a TF would be easier to sort for a track car.
The handling was vastly improved by using some geo settings recommended on an owners forum, I think that later the MGF Trophy had the same (or similar) geo settings from the factory. This was combined with some slightly wider front tyres, I think going to 195 front rather than the standard 185.
The other improvement I would recommend was replacing the bushings in the rear arms, they have a lot of movement and I replaced mine with poly bushes and some large plastic spacers either side to take up the free play.
Even then the hydrolastic suspension was a bit flakey and difficult to get sorted, nowadays I suspect the normal springs and dampers on a TF would be easier to sort for a track car.
The handling was vastly improved by using some geo settings recommended on an owners forum, I think that later the MGF Trophy had the same (or similar) geo settings from the factory. This was combined with some slightly wider front tyres, I think going to 195 front rather than the standard 185.
The other improvement I would recommend was replacing the bushings in the rear arms, they have a lot of movement and I replaced mine with poly bushes and some large plastic spacers either side to take up the free play.
Scrump said:
I had an MGF VVC back when they were relatively new.
Even then the hydrolastic suspension was a bit flakey and difficult to get sorted, nowadays I suspect the normal springs and dampers on a TF would be easier to sort for a track car.
The handling was vastly improved by using some geo settings recommended on an owners forum, I think that later the MGF Trophy had the same (or similar) geo settings from the factory. This was combined with some slightly wider front tyres, I think going to 195 front rather than the standard 185.
The other improvement I would recommend was replacing the bushings in the rear arms, they have a lot of movement and I replaced mine with poly bushes and some large plastic spacers either side to take up the free play.
Thank you scrump for the pointers and for not going "what a stupid idea for a track car!"Even then the hydrolastic suspension was a bit flakey and difficult to get sorted, nowadays I suspect the normal springs and dampers on a TF would be easier to sort for a track car.
The handling was vastly improved by using some geo settings recommended on an owners forum, I think that later the MGF Trophy had the same (or similar) geo settings from the factory. This was combined with some slightly wider front tyres, I think going to 195 front rather than the standard 185.
The other improvement I would recommend was replacing the bushings in the rear arms, they have a lot of movement and I replaced mine with poly bushes and some large plastic spacers either side to take up the free play.
I poly bushed my old URquattro a few years ago and whilst I only did road driving the transformation in the handling was massively noticeable!
Agree on the TF and "normal" suspension.
I think looking into the Landrover PRRT - a remote thermostat kit which helps with the sudden inrush of cold water into the engine block that appears to be one of a few k-series issue to be aware of (I've had four k4 engines and two HGF), but that aside, they're great engines. The mid-mounting issue is a bit of a double-header - slightly restricted on cooling and with a greater volume of cold water from the rad due to the long pipes from front to back can make thermal shock an issue.
Cambelt is a bit of a ballache on access (as is most) but doable at home for sure and you only need a cheap cam locking tool and a big flathead screwdriver, so there are few jobs that aren't DIY to keep costs reasonable.
Rimmer Bros have some good videos on YT for mechanical stuff
https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/ is or perhaps used to be run by a PHer, but are a great source of parts at sensible prices, and knowledge.
Great time to buy too - end of the summer.
I think looking into the Landrover PRRT - a remote thermostat kit which helps with the sudden inrush of cold water into the engine block that appears to be one of a few k-series issue to be aware of (I've had four k4 engines and two HGF), but that aside, they're great engines. The mid-mounting issue is a bit of a double-header - slightly restricted on cooling and with a greater volume of cold water from the rad due to the long pipes from front to back can make thermal shock an issue.
Cambelt is a bit of a ballache on access (as is most) but doable at home for sure and you only need a cheap cam locking tool and a big flathead screwdriver, so there are few jobs that aren't DIY to keep costs reasonable.
Rimmer Bros have some good videos on YT for mechanical stuff
https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/ is or perhaps used to be run by a PHer, but are a great source of parts at sensible prices, and knowledge.
Great time to buy too - end of the summer.
There's a lot of faster and better handling alternatives but most wont be nearly as much fun.
Watch what tyres you run. The Old Goodyear Eagles were brilliant but they stopped making them. MG recommend Toyo Proxes or Falkens. I haven't tried the Falkens but can categorically state the Toyos aren't the right tyre for track work. Too vague.
I'd recommend the TF over the F due to the conventional suspension.
Watch what tyres you run. The Old Goodyear Eagles were brilliant but they stopped making them. MG recommend Toyo Proxes or Falkens. I haven't tried the Falkens but can categorically state the Toyos aren't the right tyre for track work. Too vague.
I'd recommend the TF over the F due to the conventional suspension.
QuattroDave said:
Grateful for thoughts/alternatives from those with infinitely more track and track car experience than me!
The obvious list is MX5, MR2, Clio, Mini Cooper S, MG ZR and for money-saving and time saving, pretty much anything that someone has gone to the effort of track-prepping for you - you never get the money back.Anything heavy is more expensive on consumables like disks, pads, tyres and suspension components, so a light car is obviously a bonus there.
A perfectly usable MX5 can be had for under £1500 with an LSD and a 1.8 engine, but if you're hankering after an MG, the TF isn't an awful choice either and probably costs less money for the same amount of car than any of the above. If you were thinking of spending a bit on track prep though, I would make sure there are reasonable choices for suspension. As I found out with my MG ZS, there not well supported from a track point of view, so fixed seat bases and decent coilovers were hard to find.
I've had a couple of MG TF's and they were good fun in the dry. They did however try to kill you in the wet! They're very snappy and hard to control in the wet, especially compared to the much better balanced MX5 (mk3) that I have now that is such a joy to drive on a wet track.
At that kind of price point, I think it depends a lot more on the condition of the actual car you find, a good TF will be better than a bad MX5 and they could both be a grand...
At that kind of price point, I think it depends a lot more on the condition of the actual car you find, a good TF will be better than a bad MX5 and they could both be a grand...
Mr MXT said:
I suspect you’d be better off with an MX5, unless you’re set on mid engined. They are huge fun on track if you drive them hard.
Thanks.Not overly fussed on front or mid engined but I'd prefer rwd which both are.
Main factor is cost initially as until I try it I don't know how much I'll be into it. I sim race at the moment but it's nowhere near as engaging or encompassing as when I have been on track.
I would say this - I recently bought an MX5 and have had Caterham's on track. I took my S1 Elise on track too. MR layout = skills required. FR layout = fun and happiness for a hamfisted oaf like me.
If you're in the market, drive both on the road too - having that comparison in mind will help.
If you're in the market, drive both on the road too - having that comparison in mind will help.
They tick a lot of boxes for a track car. Fun to drive, lots of aftermarket support, cheap parts, cheap to buy and easy on consumables. Even a head gasket isn't that much to get fixed.
Obviously they're not going to be the fastest thing on the track day, but join an owners club and try to get on track at the same time as a few others and you'll have a great time.
Obviously they're not going to be the fastest thing on the track day, but join an owners club and try to get on track at the same time as a few others and you'll have a great time.
Thanks everyone.
As always the answer is MX5 but I like to be a little different hence considering the MG.
The only thing I hadn't fully considered with the MG option was the potential for snap oversteer with a mid engine layout. I've only driven one mid engined car in anger, an Exige S which was as planted as a planted thing so not really a good comparison!
I'm in no particular hurry to buy so will see how this thread pans out and keep an eye on ebay for MX5's, MG's and "track cars" for sale as a commenter rightly said the cheapest way actually is to get into a car already track prepped!
As always the answer is MX5 but I like to be a little different hence considering the MG.
The only thing I hadn't fully considered with the MG option was the potential for snap oversteer with a mid engine layout. I've only driven one mid engined car in anger, an Exige S which was as planted as a planted thing so not really a good comparison!
I'm in no particular hurry to buy so will see how this thread pans out and keep an eye on ebay for MX5's, MG's and "track cars" for sale as a commenter rightly said the cheapest way actually is to get into a car already track prepped!
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