Trackday tyres - Alternatives to AD08R?

[osdecar]

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been discussed many times, I've tried to search and couldn't find much.

I am looking for an alternative to the old AD08R. After my old set was worn I fitted the newer AD08RS and they are quite below the expectations. I think they perform worse in every aspect: less overall grip, more abrupt grip fall on the limit, and they overheat in less laps.

I was over the moon with the old version, and I would like to find something similar. But every option I can find at the moment, seems to have an important drawback. Let's see if you guys can help me. I'm looking for the following:

-Similar dry and dry grip than the AD08R (I drive the car from home to the track, and I don't want to have a spare set)
-Controllable on the limit
-Don't overheat after several laps in a row (my car is getting more and more reliable on long runs, and I don't want to stop because of the tyres)
-Less than £500 a set of 4. (I need to convince my mates with similar cars to buy the same tyres)


What I've found so far:

-TOYO R888r: On the expensive side. Not as good on the wet?
-Toyo R1-R: Not sure about this, looks like might be more road oriented than track?
-Federal FZ-201: Same as the Toyo. Not available anymore?
-Federal 595-RSR: Too Pricey?
-Nankang NS2R: Seems like the perfect match, but I can also see some people complaining about it.
-Premium brands (Michelin, Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone): Too pricey, I assume?


These would go on a BMW E46 330i. Only for trackdays, but as I said I drive it from home to the track, so it needs to behave well on the wet, and be road legal. Size would be 225/45 R17. Or maybe 235/40 r17

What do you guys recommend?

[motorhole]

osdecar said:

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been discussed many times, I've tried to search and couldn't find much.

I am looking for an alternative to the old AD08R. After my old set was worn I fitted the newer AD08RS and they are quite below the expectations. I think they perform worse in every aspect: less overall grip, more abrupt grip fall on the limit, and they overheat in less laps.

I was over the moon with the old version, and I would like to find something similar. But every option I can find at the moment, seems to have an important drawback. Let's see if you guys can help me. I'm looking for the following:

-Similar dry and dry grip than the AD08R (I drive the car from home to the track, and I don't want to have a spare set)
-Controllable on the limit
-Don't overheat after several laps in a row (my car is getting more and more reliable on long runs, and I don't want to stop because of the tyres)
-Less than £500 a set of 4. (I need to convince my mates with similar cars to buy the same tyres)


What I've found so far:

-TOYO R888r: On the expensive side. Not as good on the wet?
-Toyo R1-R: Not sure about this, looks like might be more road oriented than track?
-Federal FZ-201: Same as the Toyo. Not available anymore?
-Federal 595-RSR: Too Pricey?
-Nankang NS2R: Seems like the perfect match, but I can also see some people complaining about it.
-Premium brands (Michelin, Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone): Too pricey, I assume?


These would go on a BMW E46 330i. Only for trackdays, but as I said I drive it from home to the track, so it needs to behave well on the wet, and be road legal. Size would be 225/45 R17. Or maybe 235/40 r17

What do you guys recommend?

To add to this, R1-R are also no longer available. You are correct that they are a more road orientated tyre, but they are a good wet tyre and will stand up to a drying track; so great when you have two sets of wheels to play with depending on what the weather forecast is to/from and on the track. So a shame that they are no longer available because stuff like Eagle F1s and PS4s aren't exactly abundant in 16" wheel sizes (in my case).

I see a lot of folk touting Accelera 651 as the closest thing to the old AD08R but I have zero experience with them. Would also be keen re. any real life feedback.

Edited by motorhole on Friday 14th May 16:01

[handbraketurn]

I've got Nankang NS2R on a FWD car and I really can't fault them. I've not had anything better on my current car to compare them with, but I've been super impressed with them over road tyres (PS4S), which I started with.

Done I think about 4 days on the current fronts about 6 on the rears and 600 odd miles on road and they've still got approx 3mm. No blue marks or signs of the compounds suffering from heat cycles and I've given them some decent abuse.

What I have found after messing about is they work better with more pressure, most people run really low pressures, e.g. Manufacturer guide is 34 on front, a lot of people with my model of car run c30. In current temps, I start with minus 4-5 PSI off, get some heat in first 10 mins, come back and test release air to get them to the guided level, given mine is not stripped out and they work better, get less wall riding and wear is even.

They have great grip on my car, you can really lean on them, the hard tyre walls give very little flex but given a slightly harder compound than some track tyres, can still get the car to drift a and rotate with some trial breaking. This week I went to an evening session which was forecast to rain, and so I opted from PS4S, and then it was dry (typical) and the difference in grip was night and day. Wish I'd put them in the boot. I also took a Caterham racer out for a passenger lap recently and he was amazed at the grip levels and speeds I could carry with them.

They're actually good from cold too, as soon as I go out they have good grip and improves further with heat, but they do tail off a little bit if you stay out too long, definitely suit stints of c15 to 20 mins.

On the cold performance, I drove to Cadwell Park in early May and it was actually sleeting at 6am, snow on road side and road in places, wet and even icy. Sat nave ended up taking me down some country roads off the main roads due to road closures/works, I was expecting I'd end up in a hedge, but was incredibly not too bad. They're also fairly good in the wet, I wouldn't really want to go out on track with them in the wet, but you can drive them on the road carefully in wet no problem. I also had a good spirited drive home in the evening down some country lane at c11pm @ 3 degrees recently, slightly damp with dew which in theory should also be pretty perilous but I had loads go grip with them on the road and clearly no heat in them. I think that's really quite impressive considering what they're designed for.

Given the price increase for 'better' alternatives, I'm really happy to stick with them at c£90 a corner on my car (18 inch).

I'm not sure if they are as well suited to high powered RWD cars because I have no personal experience, I've certainly had people moan about them too but I can only sign their praises.

[PJ_Parsons]

Ultra High Performance road tyres have come on quite a bit recently. I've been using the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport. They work well in wet and dry conditions on my 200bhp car. They work great on the road, fit and forget; not as quick in the dry as a good semi slick but fantastic all rounders. Problem is they are not available in 17. However check out the new Bridgestone Potenza Sport. Another road tyre aimed at drivers who track their car. I've never tried these but they review well. Oh, you can get them in 17 for sub £400 from Camskill.

Edited by PJ_Parsons on Friday 14th May 19:18

[jon-]

I've heard some reports of the new Bridgestone's not wearing great on track, if anyone has any experience with this please let me know.

[handbraketurn]

PJ_Parsons said:

Ultra High Performance road tyres have come on quite a bit recently. I've been using the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport. They work well in wet and dry conditions on my 200bhp car. They work great on the road, fit and forget; not as quick in the dry as a good semi slick but fantastic all rounders. Problem is they are not available in 17. However check out the new Bridgestone Potenza Sport. Another road tyre aimed at drivers who track their car. I've never tried these but they review well. Oh, you can get them in 17 for sub £400 from Camskill.

Edited by PJ_Parsons on Friday 14th May 19:18

Trouble I find with road tyres is walls too soft, car rolls around under breaking or high speed corners on the limit. You get used to it, but it's a bit nasty when you go back after track tyres, you really feel it. But PS4s have similar dynamics, also excellent in the wet.

[PJ_Parsons]

Yes, in the past, the walls were too soft. In the case of the Goodyear Supersport, the tyre wall is two stage. Some flex and then it stiffens. I think that the Bridgestone Potenza Sport are a similar concept. As I say, road tyres that can be used on the track have come a long way in the last couple of years. Most track dayers have not caught on to this. If you have a very powerful car, sure you may want to use a good semi slick in the dry. These days I can't be bothered faffing around swapping wheels between NS2R's and Rainsports every time the weather changes and having additional road tyres. For me the Goodyear's are the answer to all questions.

If I was the original poster, I would try the Potenza and not the semi slicks. If nothing else, they would be a good road tyre and you would run rings round most cars in the wet.

Edited by PJ_Parsons on Friday 14th May 20:49

[handbraketurn]

PJ_Parsons said:

Yes, in the past, the walls were too soft. In the case of the Goodyear Supersport, the tyre wall is two stage. Some flex and then it stiffens. I think that the Bridgestone Potenza Sport are a similar concept. As I say, road tyres that can be used on the track have come a long way in the last couple of years. Most track dayers have not caught on to this. If you have a very powerful car, sure you may want to use a good semi slick in the dry. These days I can't be bothered faffing around swapping wheels between NS2R's and Rainsports every time the weather changes and having additional road tyres. For me the Goodyear's are the answer to all questions.

If I was the original poster I would try the Potenza and not the semi slicks. If nothing else, they would be a good road tyre.

Yeah, there is that. It's definitely a chore changing wheels all the time.

[jon-]

PJ_Parsons said:

If I was the original poster, I would try the Potenza and not the semi slicks. If nothing else, they would be a good road tyre and you would run rings round most cars in the wet.

Trust me when I say the Goodyear you are already using is the much better tyre to be using on track (reference my previous comment.) I can't release too much information right now, but check the review from May 13 here: https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Bridgestone/Poten...

[Chuck328]

jon- said:

I can't release too much information right now, but check the review from May 13 here: https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Bridgestone/Poten...

More testing/reviewing of the Bridgestone vs direct competitors coming? Hope so!

(Fantastic review btw re the the 225/18 class. Some really good info on that. Very relevant to me with two cars with that size. Thanks again.)

[anonymous-user]

OP, I used both the NS2-R and the AD08R and there’s not much between them IMO. AD08R gives a bit more grip when hot but overheats more easily. NS2-R is very consistent, deals with standing water a bit better but is noisier and harder riding.

[brillomaster]

Definitely would be good to see some longer stint length reviews of UUHP tyres... also considering bridgestone potenza sport as a weekend/ trackday tyre, but might reconsider if they can't handle 8 laps round bedford without going off/ disintegrating.

My old federal 595 rsrs could easily do a stint with minimal drop off of grip, and no real wear... a set of them lasted 8 full days.... would hope that the recent UUHP tyres are designed with trackdays in mind, but would be good to check!

[nickfrog]

PJ_Parsons said:

Yes, in the past, the walls were too soft. In the case of the Goodyear Supersport, the tyre wall is two stage. Some flex and then it stiffens. I think that the Bridgestone Potenza Sport are a similar concept. As I say, road tyres that can be used on the track have come a long way in the last couple of years. Most track dayers have not caught on to this.

Up to recently I would have disagreed with you based on poor experience with front outside shoulder damage even with a bit of camber. That's why I used AD08Rs or NS2rs.

I have however just fitted front GY SS and I kind of see where you're coming from. They don't t seem to mind too much yet even on 1.5t car. The jury is still out though and I'll know more in a few months.

[osdecar]

Thank you guys for all your answers.

motorhole said:

I see a lot of folk touting Accelera 651 as the closest thing to the old AD08R but I have zero experience with them. Would also be keen re. any real life feedback.

I didn't know about the accelera, I will definitely investigate more.

PJ_Parsons said:

Ultra High Performance road tyres have come on quite a bit recently. I've been using the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport. They work well in wet and dry conditions on my 200bhp car. They work great on the road, fit and forget; not as quick in the dry as a good semi slick but fantastic all rounders. Problem is they are not available in 17. However check out the new Bridgestone Potenza Sport. Another road tyre aimed at drivers who track their car. I've never tried these but they review well. Oh, you can get them in 17 for sub £400 from Camskill.

Edited by PJ_Parsons on Friday 14th May 19:18

jon- said:

PJ_Parsons said:

If I was the original poster, I would try the Potenza and not the semi slicks. If nothing else, they would be a good road tyre and you would run rings round most cars in the wet.

Trust me when I say the Goodyear you are already using is the much better tyre to be using on track (reference my previous comment.) I can't release too much information right now, but check the review from May 13 here: https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Bridgestone/Poten...

Appreciate your advice but one of my main requirements from thr tyre is to be able to cope with long stints without overheating. Also despite how good they can be, this is a ccar used only on trackdays. Fully stripped, rollcage, 6 pot caliper... A road tyre is always going to be a compromise.

charltjr said:

OP, I used both the NS2-R and the AD08R and there’s not much between them IMO. AD08R gives a bit more grip when hot but overheats more easily. NS2-R is very consistent, deals with standing water a bit better but is noisier and harder riding.

Thank you, this is what i was looking for. OOpinions from someone who had used both.

[jon-]

Based on my testing, of the road tyres, the Goodyear Eagle F1 SS has the best heat resistance, however it's still a road tyre.

[Tommie38]

AR-1 and caution in the wet?

[anonymous-user]

I have used AD08R on my car previously and went for the AD08RS despite many reviews saying they are not as good. I honestly haven't found any of the negative characteristics that people talk about and after 2 track days they still have plenty of tread left (70%) whilst being grippy and predictable.

I have used NS2R, R888R and Cup 2s on this car and can't fault the new Yoko AD08RS. The R888Rs were worn out in just over 2 track days, Cup 2s lethal in the wet and no better than Yokos in the dry although decent on the road and the NS2R were poor in the wet and Ok on track but nothing to write home about and wore out quickly too.

Edit: also had a set of AR1s, for me they also wore out really quickly and were pointless on a damp track.

[nickfrog]

Same as Elatino. I have used both AD08R and RS albeit on 2 different Meganes. I found very little difference. I have also used NS2Rs abd they're great on track but very noisy and unforgiving on the road.

[spikeyhead]

Elatino1 said:

I have used AD08R on my car previously and went for the AD08RS despite many reviews saying they are not as good. I honestly haven't found any of the negative characteristics that people talk about and after 2 track days they still have plenty of tread left (70%) whilst being grippy and predictable.

I have used NS2R, R888R and Cup 2s on this car and can't fault the new Yoko AD08RS. The R888Rs were worn out in just over 2 track days, Cup 2s lethal in the wet and no better than Yokos in the dry although decent on the road and the NS2R were poor in the wet and Ok on track but nothing to write home about and wore out quickly too.

Edit: also had a set of AR1s, for me they also wore out really quickly and were pointless on a damp track.

What car was that on?

[anonymous-user]

Megane R26, She's seen some action.