TrackDays says customers pick EVs for their acceleration

[bigothunter]

Electric cars are working for the track experience market: https://journal.classiccars.com/2020/11/11/superca...

But how about regular track days? Are circuits investing in fast chargers so you can top up during the day? Some BEVs could struggle to do more than 40 miles from full charge under track conditions.

Anyone know the answer?

[FurtiveFreddy]

No tracks have invested in fast chargers on site yet and in fact about half of the circuits in the UK won't even allow EVs on track because they're worried about battery fires in the event of an accident.

In the south, things aren't too bad as we have Brands Hatch, Thruxton and Abingdon, all of which have fast charging within 15 minutes of the track and they are all OK with EVs for now.

[sjg]

I know at Brands Hatch there's a rapid charger at the hotel just outside the gates.

16A hookups are common in race paddocks, some have considerably more in the paddock and/or garages. Silverstone has 32A 3 phase all over the place, if the car can accept it (22kW charging) that's about 90 miles of range per hour. Would be easy for them to add EV rapid charging if they wanted to.

[FurtiveFreddy]

sjg said:

I know at Brands Hatch there's a rapid charger at the hotel just outside the gates.

16A hookups are common in race paddocks, some have considerably more in the paddock and/or garages. Silverstone has 32A 3 phase all over the place, if the car can accept it (22kW charging) that's about 90 miles of range per hour. Would be easy for them to add EV rapid charging if they wanted to.

Brands has 32A 3 phase in the garages and paddocks too, which helps but it's not fast enough to 'fill up' during lunchtime. The charger at BH Place Hotel is a bit better but if you're in a Model 3 the best strategy is to use Bluewater SuCs. I've done 3 charges there in a day as an experiment to see how many laps were possible during a full track day.

TBH the track evenings at Brands are a better proposition for EVs and especially Model 3s.

Thruxton has fast charging on site and Amesbury SuCs 5 minutes away, so I'll be booking a day there as soon as lockdown's over.

[danp]

FurtiveFreddy said:

No tracks have invested in fast chargers on site yet and in fact about half of the circuits in the UK won't even allow EVs on track because they're worried about battery fires in the event of an accident.

In the south, things aren't too bad as we have Brands Hatch, Thruxton and Abingdon, all of which have fast charging within 15 minutes of the track and they are all OK with EVs for now.

Interesting, do you know where else they allow EVs?

Presumably it’s down to the track owner as opposed to the track day organiser?

Thanks, Dan

Edit: What kind of miles/kWh were you getting on track out of interest?!

Edited by danp on Wednesday 27th January 21:01

[FurtiveFreddy]

danp said:

Interesting, do you know where else they allow EVs?

Presumably it’s down to the track owner as opposed to the track day organiser?

Thanks, Dan

Edit: What kind of miles/kWh were you getting on track out of interest?!

Edited by danp on Wednesday 27th January 21:01

It's down to each circuit manager to decide. So some MSV circuits allow them, others don't, for instance.

As for miles/KWh not sure, but way over 1000

You'll get about 40 laps around Brands Hatch Indy in a Model 3 Performance (allowing enough to get you to and from Bluewater), so not as bad as some might think.

[danp]

FurtiveFreddy said:

It's down to each circuit manager to decide. So some MSV circuits allow them, others don't, for instance.

As for miles/KWh not sure, but way over 1000

You'll get about 40 laps around Brands Hatch Indy in a Model 3 Performance (allowing enough to get you to and from Bluewater), so not as bad as some might think.

Excellent work, my back of a fag packet calculation makes that about 0.8 miles per kWh, guessing there wasn’t much lift and coast in there!

[FurtiveFreddy]

Here's a list of tracks who do/don't allow EVs I found on a FB group.

[320d is all you need]

bigothunter said:

Electric cars are working for the track experience market: https://journal.classiccars.com/2020/11/11/superca...

But how about regular track days? Are circuits investing in fast chargers so you can top up during the day? Some BEVs could struggle to do more than 40 miles from full charge under track conditions.

Anyone know the answer?

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/track-mode-a-day-with-hod-laguna-my-personal-observations%E2%80%A6.135578/#fc-post-3209827
.
Seems 5 laps of Laguna Seca does 30%+ of the battery.

Laguna is 2.5 or just under from memory.
So I work that out to be a rough 60mi range at track speed.

Last trackday I was on in 2019, my friends clocked up 300+ miles in a day. I don't think that is feasible based on the Tesla report above. They had a supercharger 8 min drive away or something? Even if it was in the pits it'd be no good. You'd spend half your time charging.

EV and track day don't go hand in hand in my opinion. EV do a job which is to be efficient and fast in short blasts.

Track driving I'd rather drive my 3 series diesel I think.

To me that's the difference between a general enthusiast and a track day enthusiast, I've been to a fair few track days (and attended many drift days). Never seen an EV at one and I met people who had Tesla P85d etc and all said the same thing they'd never take them on a track. They had e92 M3 or Caymans as track cars

Edited by 320d is all you need on Wednesday 27th January 23:31

[danp]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Here's a list of tracks who do/don't allow EVs I found on a FB group.

Fantastic, thanks very much!

[FurtiveFreddy]

320d is all you need said:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/track-mode...
.
Seems 5 laps of Laguna Seca does 30%+ of the battery.

Laguna is 2.5 or just under from memory.
So I work that out to be a rough 60mi range at track speed.

Last trackday I was on in 2019, my friends clocked up 300+ miles in a day. I don't think that is feasible based on the Tesla report above. They had a supercharger 8 min drive away or something? Even if it was in the pits it'd be no good. You'd spend half your time charging.

EV and track day don't go hand in hand in my opinion. EV do a job which is to be efficient and fast in short blasts.

Track driving I'd rather drive my 3 series diesel I think.

To me that's the difference between a general enthusiast and a track day enthusiast, I've been to a fair few track days (and attended many drift days). Never seen an EV at one and I met people who had Tesla P85d etc and all said the same thing they'd never take them on a track. They had e92 M3 or Caymans as track cars

It's not always about how many laps you can cram into a day. The fact is a Model 3 makes a really good track car and is also a lot quicker than your 3 series diesel.

I'd rather do 40 fast laps in a Model 3 during a track evening at Brands than plod around in a diesel the whole time being overtaken by an EV every few laps.

But that's just me

[bigothunter]

FurtiveFreddy said:

It's not always about how many laps you can cram into a day. The fact is a Model 3 makes a really good track car and is also a lot quicker than your 3 series diesel.

I'd rather do 40 fast laps in a Model 3 during a track evening at Brands than plod around in a diesel the whole time being overtaken by an EV every few laps.

But that's just me

What quickest unofficial lap time will a Model 3 set around Brands Indy? Time from video footage would be fine

This guy managed 60.069 sec on a fairly crowded track.

Edited by bigothunter on Thursday 28th January 02:57

[FurtiveFreddy]

bigothunter said:

What quickest unofficial lap time will a Model 3 set around Brands Indy? Time from video footage would be fine

This guy managed 60.069 sec on a fairly crowded track.

I understand someone with a M3P has knocked at least 5 seconds off that time with a few tweaks...

They aren't just fast in a straight line

[Truckosaurus]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Here's a list of tracks who do/don't allow EVs I found on a FB group...

Anyone know what is stopping the acceptance of EVs? It can't be circuit ownership as some MSV circuits accept them and others don't.

[Munter]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Here's a list of tracks who do/don't allow EVs I found on a FB group.

Unless something changed in the last 6 months or so. Donington DOES allow EVs as a Model 3 was making a mockery of everything. (Watching a 500+bhp fire breathing RX7 time attack car being passed by a stock saloon was a bit mind bending)

[danp]

Truckosaurus said:

Anyone know what is stopping the acceptance of EVs? It can't be circuit ownership as some MSV circuits accept them and others don't.

As FF says looks like it’s down to the circuit manager, who may be concerned about fire if there is a bad accident (as EVs are harder to extinguish than ICE)

[FurtiveFreddy]

Munter said:

Unless something changed in the last 6 months or so. Donington DOES allow EVs as a Model 3 was making a mockery of everything. (Watching a 500+bhp fire breathing RX7 time attack car being passed by a stock saloon was a bit mind bending)

Castle Combe also allowed them until late last year, but as you can see that list was compiled late 2020 so I doubt anything's changed between then and now for Donington.

I spoke to MSV about the subject and it's down to the individual circuit manager to decide. MSV were looking at a group policy for EVs but don't seem to have progressed on that for various reasons, lockdown being one of them. The group policy could have seen all MSV circuits ban them.

The list of circuits which don't allow EVs could get longer as more go on track and the circuit managers get more nervous about it. Let's face it, they can easily fill track days with ICE cars as it is. Why do they want the hassle of even having to think about how to deal with an EV which has hit the armco? It's much, much easier just to say no.

It's going to need a much bigger swing in demand to make them think about it. Same as trying to enter your Model 3 in a sprint or hillclimb. You just can't.

[320d is all you need]

FurtiveFreddy said:

It's not always about how many laps you can cram into a day. The fact is a Model 3 makes a really good track car and is also a lot quicker than your 3 series diesel.

I'd rather do 40 fast laps in a Model 3 during a track evening at Brands than plod around in a diesel the whole time being overtaken by an EV every few laps.

But that's just me

Yes it is. If you're paying 200+ quid you don't want to be spending half of your time paying and waiting for charging.

A really good track car is up for debate.

I've not driven a M3P on track. But from the description above from the Tesla Forum, it seemed to struggle. Let's not forget some of the best track cars are Clios, Meganes, MX5s, Caterhams, M3s, etc.

These are all generally slower cars (e46 m3 "only" has 340hp) but a true track day enthusiast doesn't simply want the fastest point and squirt car.

The proper track enthusiasts want involvement (manual gearbox, good feeling through the steering and chassis) , lots of upgrade parts they can do themselves, suspension bushes, spring and dampers, entire tuning, exhaust and intake (Tesla seem very hard to deal with from a variety of sources online and I believe you're not allowed to work on your own car) and a car you can lap all day in. Which a Tesla meets none of the critera.

A Tesla is far too heavy to be a "good track car" in much the same way an Audi RS6 is not a good track car.

The fact you went straight to the straight line performance further supports my point regarding general enthusiast and "proper" enthusiasts.

I'd rather a 200hp RWD manual car than a Tesla myself. I would want some involvement, not to feel like I'm playing a simulation.

Regarding times it seems mentioning an approx time of 55 seconds as if that's good. I'm afraid for a car with such acceleration it's not very good at all. Many mildly modified FWD hatches can do that...

As I said before I think the EV (Tesla) should stay as the mainstream daily use car. They are not designed or built with track use in mind.

[bigothunter]

FurtiveFreddy said:

The list of circuits which don't allow EVs could get longer as more go on track and the circuit managers get more nervous about it. >>> Why do they want the hassle of even having to think about how to deal with an EV which has hit the armco?

Which suggests EVs are dangerous. Does evidence from road crashes support that claim? Or are the circuit managers just being conservative?

FurtiveFreddy said:

Let's face it, they can easily fill track days with ICE cars as it is.

Works for now but how about in 10 or 15 years time?

FurtiveFreddy said:

It's going to need a much bigger swing in demand to make them think about it. Same as trying to enter your Model 3 in a sprint or hillclimb. You just can't.

EVs could be effective at sprints or hillclimbs even though impeded by their lumbering mass.

[bigothunter]

320d is all you need said:

As I said before I think the EV (Tesla) should stay as the mainstream daily use car. They are not designed or built with track use in mind.

Will track days and club motor sport be confined to historic cars only, as ICE is phased out? Could use your Tesla to tow that track-only ICE car to the circuits?