Are airfield track days more tolerant of going sideways?
Discussion
Hi,
I've recently got back into track days and was at Bedford a month or 2 ago and it was a lovely wet day. Was great fun, hanging the back end out and sliding all over the place. However, after a couple of laps, the marshalls showed me a "No Drifting" board! 10+ years ago they didn't seem to care, but now it seems it's not allowed.
I also did a Brands day in the wet recently and surprisingly, they were slightly more tolerant but still not overly keen.
So my question is, are airfield track days more tolerant of power sliding than the likes of MSV? Or do they still give you a warning if you slide around too much?
Thanks
I've recently got back into track days and was at Bedford a month or 2 ago and it was a lovely wet day. Was great fun, hanging the back end out and sliding all over the place. However, after a couple of laps, the marshalls showed me a "No Drifting" board! 10+ years ago they didn't seem to care, but now it seems it's not allowed.
I also did a Brands day in the wet recently and surprisingly, they were slightly more tolerant but still not overly keen.
So my question is, are airfield track days more tolerant of power sliding than the likes of MSV? Or do they still give you a warning if you slide around too much?
Thanks
Bedford do seem to be quite strict on drifting (despite their pictures in the briefing room of M3s drifting). in fact i'd probably say bedford were the worst for being fun police... i've had my fair share of black flags at bedford for 'drifting'. Bit of a shame really as bedford is arguably the best place in the country to get a slide on safely.
Other MSV tracks are a little more lenient - but proximity of barriers does reduce the desire for tail out heroics somewhat.
As for airfield days, i do think they are are more lenient. as they arent proper tracks, the event organisers will be the marshalls, so might be more tolerant. i remember a few years back doing a day at Keevil Airfield with Motorsport-events... it was nearing the end of the day, the track was very quiet (only 2 or 3 cars circulating) and the marshalls clearly didnt mind me absolutely throwing the car sideways trying (and occasionally succeeding) to hold a big 3rd gear drift. that was a fun day.
my advice, wait until near the end of the day to start hooning - the track will be quieter, and you'll have hopefully shown by this point you're not a liability. if you're drifting straight out the gate, then you'll be black flagged very quickly and told to rein it in or get kicked out.
Other MSV tracks are a little more lenient - but proximity of barriers does reduce the desire for tail out heroics somewhat.
As for airfield days, i do think they are are more lenient. as they arent proper tracks, the event organisers will be the marshalls, so might be more tolerant. i remember a few years back doing a day at Keevil Airfield with Motorsport-events... it was nearing the end of the day, the track was very quiet (only 2 or 3 cars circulating) and the marshalls clearly didnt mind me absolutely throwing the car sideways trying (and occasionally succeeding) to hold a big 3rd gear drift. that was a fun day.
my advice, wait until near the end of the day to start hooning - the track will be quieter, and you'll have hopefully shown by this point you're not a liability. if you're drifting straight out the gate, then you'll be black flagged very quickly and told to rein it in or get kicked out.
Edited by brillomaster on Tuesday 15th December 11:20
oh also watch out for the fun police on here too... any mention of intentionally sliding a car on a trackday gets some people all mouth frothy... personally i think if you want to get a slide on (which we do) a trackday is a good place to do it - but as i say, wait till the end of the day and for the track to get a bit quieter first.
brillomaster said:
oh also watch out for the fun police on here too... any mention of intentionally sliding a car on a trackday gets some people all mouth frothy... personally i think if you want to get a slide on (which we do) a trackday is a good place to do it - but as i say, wait till the end of the day and for the track to get a bit quieter first.
Awesome, thanks for all the info. Yep strange Bedford is one of the worse places for it, maybe it's noise or something, who knows, but never used to be like that.Why on earth would anyone care if you can sideways on a track day? Presumably its by people who want to go sideways, but either don't have the balls or the skill to do it lol.
brillomaster said:
oh also watch out for the fun police on here too... any mention of intentionally sliding a car on a trackday gets some people all mouth frothy... personally i think if you want to get a slide on (which we do) a trackday is a good place to do it - but as i say, wait till the end of the day and for the track to get a bit quieter first.
Sure it's good fun but the rules are pretty clear ; nothing to do with "fun police" (I don't know what that means). Bedford have very strict noise constraints and that's probably the main reason for how tough they are, and I don't blame them as TDs are a small part of their income there.I think having a bit of sensible sideways fun when there is no other cars around is OK. The problem is that some can't do it sensibly and/or run out of talent and you can't expect the circuit owners to start differentiating between the two so personally I support their blanket policy (I have had slides on at Bedford and no marshals seem to care, but they were just temporary loss of traction just before finishing to unwind the lock not intentional big slides).
If people want to drift they should book drift days, a bit of a clue in the name
Was at Bedford on Sat and it was properly wet for the whole morning, many cars struggling with traction and alot of slipping and sliding not to mention lots of spins and cars going off. Obviously in those conditions its more excusable to get a little slide on but still saw a few guys getting a talking to in the pits as they were deliberately pushing it. Had a couple of cars have big spins in front of me too so can understand the zero tolerance approach, I was giving people plenty of space through corners before overtaking them...really fun day tbh its an ideal track in the wet as you can really explore the handling of the car without fear of ending up in the barrier.
Doing it unintentionally or semi-unintentionally is fine. It definitely happens and is going to happen on track, if you're in a RWD car and have the TC turned off, which you probably will do. However, there's a big difference between that and then using the whole course as a slalom, which means getting in peoples way, using up too much of the track, holding people up and potentially crashing into someone.
Proper drift days are more suited to the latter.
Proper drift days are more suited to the latter.
culpz said:
Doing it unintentionally or semi-unintentionally is fine. It definitely happens and is going to happen on track, if you're in a RWD car and have the TC turned off, which you probably will do. However, there's a big difference between that and then using the whole course as a slalom, which means getting in peoples way, using up too much of the track, holding people up and potentially crashing into someone.
Correct and thankfully the marshalls are very good at distinguishing the two attitudes and only kick out a particular demographic. Another thing to consider is that it's very easy to trip the noise meters when you add screeching tyres into the mix, in my experience going sideways in the wet is allowed by the marshalls provided you're not going off track.
Went Brands Hatch earlier this month and MX5's were spinning out left right and centre (had three spin out right infront of me in just a few minutes) yet were still allowed to carry on unless they damaged the car in the process.
Went Brands Hatch earlier this month and MX5's were spinning out left right and centre (had three spin out right infront of me in just a few minutes) yet were still allowed to carry on unless they damaged the car in the process.
Whilst I understand the reason for organisers to frown upon drifting, it can be quite off putting in some cars if it's really wet and you don't have the best tyres.
One of my cars will go sideways at the slightest throttle input (maybe I'm ham-fisted...) so the back comes out without me even trying. Seeing as I pay to go on track to learn the car's handling in a safe environment, am aware of others on track and don't go beyond my abilities, it sucks to be flagged for this reason.
This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer a FWD on track as there's not much risk of sideways action and I can still have fun.
One of my cars will go sideways at the slightest throttle input (maybe I'm ham-fisted...) so the back comes out without me even trying. Seeing as I pay to go on track to learn the car's handling in a safe environment, am aware of others on track and don't go beyond my abilities, it sucks to be flagged for this reason.
This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer a FWD on track as there's not much risk of sideways action and I can still have fun.
icekay said:
Whilst I understand the reason for organisers to frown upon drifting, it can be quite off putting in some cars if it's really wet and you don't have the best tyres.
One of my cars will go sideways at the slightest throttle input (maybe I'm ham-fisted...) so the back comes out without me even trying. Seeing as I pay to go on track to learn the car's handling in a safe environment, am aware of others on track and don't go beyond my abilities, it sucks to be flagged for this reason.
This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer a FWD on track as there's not much risk of sideways action and I can still have fun.
There's a difference between "losing traction in the back end" and "drifting" and marshals are very good at spotting the difference.. Last Saturday I was at Oulton Park, very wet, and I was losing the back end, and catching the car in the process in almost every single corner. I wasn't black flagged in the whole day. One of my cars will go sideways at the slightest throttle input (maybe I'm ham-fisted...) so the back comes out without me even trying. Seeing as I pay to go on track to learn the car's handling in a safe environment, am aware of others on track and don't go beyond my abilities, it sucks to be flagged for this reason.
This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer a FWD on track as there's not much risk of sideways action and I can still have fun.
For me, the biggest reason against drifting is regarding that people who do it while in traffic. It's not the first time that the guy in front of me tries a drift, runs out of talent, loses the car, and risk a potential t-bone crash or head-on crash.
So, for me, if you're drifting when the track is quite and you're on your own, it's absolutely fine. And I'm sure for most of the marshals, it's a similar situation.
osdecar said:
So, for me, if you're drifting when the track is quite and you're on your own, it's absolutely fine. And I'm sure for most of the marshals, it's a similar situation.
Personally I'd doubt that. If they see regular drifting angles (as opposed to a few degrees) they're going to get the black out, because they will know from their experience that the person will run out of talent at some point and that can mean a red flag and maybe damage to clear up.Trackdayer said:
I've seen groups of participants complain to a TDO about drifting. It seems very unpopular amongst the TD crowd.
I am fairly convinced that drift fans would almost certainly complain about people in golf carts holding them up on dedicated drift day, that they had paid good money for..
.If you fancy driving sideways in a controlled manner consider going on an "auto solo" event. You can drive against the clock in a proper competition, on tarmac, all forwards, in a slalom type competition . 1st and 2nd gear mainly, but the comp is serious and the skills and reactions you learn in 1st and 2nd gear are directly related to what you need to do in 3rd and 4th gear! Join your local motor club, some events are only 30 quid for the day.
Our club, Sevenoaks & District Motor Club run auto solo events at Brands Hatch but uniquely we get to run on the rally stage as well as the entire lower paddock. Days are about 60 quid.
Rather than pure drifting, these events sharpen your oversteer ( or handbrake ) skills to tighten your lines in conjunction with regaining grip to set the fastest times around the courses. Look into it! You 90mph oversteer will soon be just a calm flick of the wrist!
Our club, Sevenoaks & District Motor Club run auto solo events at Brands Hatch but uniquely we get to run on the rally stage as well as the entire lower paddock. Days are about 60 quid.
Rather than pure drifting, these events sharpen your oversteer ( or handbrake ) skills to tighten your lines in conjunction with regaining grip to set the fastest times around the courses. Look into it! You 90mph oversteer will soon be just a calm flick of the wrist!
proper drifting is slow and can disturb the flow of drivers behind. it's unlikely to end well in 99% of cases if continually repeated. back end slipping out a little is quite different.
there are some corners that lend themselves to a bit of fun with less impact and marshalls are normally more tolerant. Melbourne hairpin at Dony springs to mind. The Old Hairpin is completely different and i'd want any drifter in front of me there to be black flagged.
there are some corners that lend themselves to a bit of fun with less impact and marshalls are normally more tolerant. Melbourne hairpin at Dony springs to mind. The Old Hairpin is completely different and i'd want any drifter in front of me there to be black flagged.
Danny_Boy said:
brillomaster said:
oh also watch out for the fun police on here too... any mention of intentionally sliding a car on a trackday gets some people all mouth frothy... personally i think if you want to get a slide on (which we do) a trackday is a good place to do it - but as i say, wait till the end of the day and for the track to get a bit quieter first.
Awesome, thanks for all the info. Yep strange Bedford is one of the worse places for it, maybe it's noise or something, who knows, but never used to be like that.Why on earth would anyone care if you can sideways on a track day? Presumably its by people who want to go sideways, but either don't have the balls or the skill to do it lol.
I wonder if there's a coincidence?
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