Cup 2s - how much quicker?

[Pvapour]

Than standard high performance road tyres? Say, percentage over a lap in dry hot conditions?

Cant really find any comparisons to standard road tyres, just between different track day tyres.

Any links?

[Throttlebody]

Pvapour said:

Than standard high performance road tyres? Say, percentage over a lap in dry hot conditions?

Cant really find any comparisons to standard road tyres, just between different track day tyres.

Any links?

1.5 secs quicker on a 1:17 dry lap.

Cup 2 v PS4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMv64liOqIE

[brillomaster]

Though lets not forget a ps4 is right at the top end of a 'standard road tyre' so probably another second to an average road tyre like a kumho or a yokohama.

[Munter]

Well not scientific but, my MK3 MX5 on Pilot Super Sports, vs my buddies MK3.5 MX5 on Cup2, at Spa on the same day. Almost identical laptimes.

Which I guess means, unless you're good enough to exploit them, then you might as well go for the slightly more "road" biased tyre.

[mat205125]

Munter said:

Well not scientific but, my MK3 MX5 on Pilot Super Sports, vs my buddies MK3.5 MX5 on Cup2, at Spa on the same day. Almost identical laptimes.

Which I guess means, unless you're good enough to exploit them, then you might as well go for the slightly more "road" biased tyre.

Very true sentiment

Unless you really are top of your game, and smashing lap after lap within tenths of seconds each time, then buying pace by switching to different tyres, should be lower on your priority list than tuition and coaching

[mickyh7]

mat205125 said:

Very true sentiment

Unless you really are top of your game, and smashing lap after lap within tenths of seconds each time, then buying pace by switching to different tyres, should be lower on your priority list than tuition and coaching

Except for all of the extra confidence, subconsciously knowing if it goes tits up the tyres will get you round!

[nickfrog]

The main benefit of a track focused tyre is endurance through stability of the compound and carcass, that are designed to resist overheating, unlike a uhp road tyre that will start cooking after 2 hot laps. I see the apex speed delta as a bonus, which is of low value to me.

[Pvapour]

Thats quite some difference!

The reason i ask is because the Conti sport contact 6 that are on the car lasted about three laps before becoming so slippery even 1/2 throttle would tease the rear round, their grip fell off a cliff, fun for a bit and helped learn more of the cars characteristics once past adhesion but the amount it slowed me down was painful once that was learnt, even before that they werent great tbh.

It was either frustrating trying to get the power down or on long fast sweepers, getting bored with the fronts just washing out.. i expect more than 3 or 4 laps from a tire before they get too hot.

I had a go in a gtr there which was of similar weight and power and he had cup 2s, the difference in grip and his ability to stay out there for at least 10-15lap / 25 mins was marked and he had a very agressive style.

i’ll try the cup2s as these arent going to last much longer anyway (i’ll make sure of that)

The AMG gtr comes with cup2s as standard anyway so if wheel size is the same then i’ll upsize to the gtr sizes (geo, diff, track etc is the same on the C to the gtr so should work)

I disagree on them not making a difference to the same driver, even if your skills need honing you’ll still be quicker on stickier rubber, well, unless you're so crap you’re not getting the tires hot enough.

Thank for the input gents.

Edited by Pvapour on Monday 3rd August 17:11

[handbraketurn]

Munter said:

Well not scientific but, my MK3 MX5 on Pilot Super Sports, vs my buddies MK3.5 MX5 on Cup2, at Spa on the same day. Almost identical laptimes.

Which I guess means, unless you're good enough to exploit them, then you might as well go for the slightly more "road" biased tyre.

Having said that, I found that PS4s excessively wore on the edges on my previous car. They're not designed for the temperatures of track work and for longer sessions, you may see them damaged.

I ruined a the fronts at the ring which still had around 5mm in the centre, but were so worn on the edges, I had to get the replaced at a nearby garage before driving back.

[FurtiveFreddy]

handbraketurn said:

Having said that, I found that PS4s excessively wore on the edges on my previous car. They're not designed for the temperatures of track work and for longer sessions, you may see them damaged.

I ruined a the fronts at the ring which still had around 5mm in the centre, but were so worn on the edges, I had to get the replaced at a nearby garage before driving back.

This is another reason to use Cup2s, particularly on heavy cars with limited camber adjustment. The shoulders put up with a lot more abuse.

[nickfrog]

Pvapour said:

It was either frustrating trying to get the power down or on long fast sweepers, getting bored with the fronts just washing out.. i expect more than 3 or 4 laps from a tire before they get too hot.

I had a go in a gtr there which was of similar weight and power and he had cup 2s, the difference in grip and his ability to stay out there for at least 10-15lap / 25 mins was marked and he had a very agressive style.

That's what I was saying about endurance. Consider AD08Rs too which are excellent with full tread depth of 8mm. They have a stiffer carcass than the Cup2 which offsets for that in terms of heat management of the added block movements compared to the shallower 6mm blocks of the Cup2s. They're slightly harsher and noisier though but they have been the perfect compromise for me on the road and track all year round.

[NardoRS]

At Bedford GT circuit Cup 2’s were 6 seconds quicker 2:43 vs 2:49 for my car. Granted, I knew the circuit a bit better the second time and I did have more front camber.
I’ve used the original Cups years ago which I thought were more track focussed (but treacherous in the wet) than the Cup2’s. I found they happily lived with road use, ok in the wet and lasted well. I ended up getting a dedicated set of track wheels and put AR1’s on those and left the Cup2’s to road duty.

[Chr1sch]

I've just switched from Cup2's to 888r's and thought there would be night and day difference, in truth its less than a second with my talents behind the wheel (average)

I was hard on the Cup2's, i expected more for the money, but on reflection, unless I'm not getting the best from the 888r's, they were far better than i gave them credit for.

[FurtiveFreddy]

Chr1sch said:

I've just switched from Cup2's to 888r's and thought there would be night and day difference, in truth its less than a second with my talents behind the wheel (average)

I was hard on the Cup2's, i expected more for the money, but on reflection, unless I'm not getting the best from the 888r's, they were far better than i gave them credit for.

So which were faster? What car?

[Chr1sch]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Chr1sch said:

I've just switched from Cup2's to 888r's and thought there would be night and day difference, in truth its less than a second with my talents behind the wheel (average)

I was hard on the Cup2's, i expected more for the money, but on reflection, unless I'm not getting the best from the 888r's, they were far better than i gave them credit for.

So which were faster? What car?

888r's were faster and certainly gave a sense of more out and out grip and there is probably more in them, however, given the Cup2 is a much harder, more road-biased tyre they were better than i gave them credit for at the time

This was on a Clio 197 track car

[Magooagain]

Spare set of wheels and semi slick like a toyo 888r is the way to go.
Night and day mate.

I know, I know! It's a pain but well worth it!

You need a track bh

[Pvapour]

Magooagain said:

Spare set of wheels and semi slick like a toyo 888r is the way to go.
Night and day mate.

I know, I know! It's a pain but well worth it!

You need a track bh

Ive got one

Sticky rubber incoming, 1300 for a set tho

[Applause]

This make interesting reading, a semi-slick tread pattern does not nessesarily make for a quicker tyre

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Track-D...

Cup 2's are as good as it gets for anything that is road legal.

[FurtiveFreddy]

Applause said:

This make interesting reading, a semi-slick tread pattern does not nessesarily make for a quicker tyre

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Track-D...

Cup 2's are as good as it gets for anything that is road legal.

The Trofeo R, 888R, Cup 2R and Goodyear SuperSport RS are all 'faster' and all road legal.
It all boils down to what size(s) you need, how much money you want to spend and how long you need them to last.

The Cup 2 is affordable, consistent and long lasting which makes it a good choice if you really do want a tyre you can leave on the car for road use in between track sessions.

[NIgt3]

Cup2’s are a really good tyre for grip and for lasting. I’ve never used another tyre that has that much grip and lasts so long, they literally go on and on and on, but their not as quick as the old cup1’s or Pirelli trofeo’s/Dunlop direzza’s, but still a great tyre!!