Open pit at Bedford or novice session at Mallory/Cadwell
Discussion
I'd be interested in your views on a track day dilemma I'm wrestling with.
I attended my first track day at Bedford this week and loved it. It was a novice session and (despite the rain) it was a great introduction to track driving. I had a fantastic day.
In an ideal world, I would like to do another novice session at Bedford to build on my initial experience (this time hopefully in the dry!) at a track which seems to be as forgiving as they come. But there are no more novice days at Bedford this year, just open pit sessions.
There are, however, novice days at Mallory Park and Cadwell. I'm slightly intimidated by the tightness of Cadwell and the closer proximity of barriers at both circuits compared with the endless run off areas at Bedford (not that I came off!).
So, with one novice track day behind me, would I be ready for an open pit session at Bedford (my preferred venue)? Or am I better advised to head off to Mallory or Cadwell for another session limited to novices like myself?
No right or wrong answer I know but would be interested to hear your views.
I attended my first track day at Bedford this week and loved it. It was a novice session and (despite the rain) it was a great introduction to track driving. I had a fantastic day.
In an ideal world, I would like to do another novice session at Bedford to build on my initial experience (this time hopefully in the dry!) at a track which seems to be as forgiving as they come. But there are no more novice days at Bedford this year, just open pit sessions.
There are, however, novice days at Mallory Park and Cadwell. I'm slightly intimidated by the tightness of Cadwell and the closer proximity of barriers at both circuits compared with the endless run off areas at Bedford (not that I came off!).
So, with one novice track day behind me, would I be ready for an open pit session at Bedford (my preferred venue)? Or am I better advised to head off to Mallory or Cadwell for another session limited to novices like myself?
No right or wrong answer I know but would be interested to hear your views.
Boxsterjon said:
I'm slightly intimidated by the tightness of Cadwell and the closer proximity of barriers at both circuits compared with the endless run off areas at Bedford (not that I came off!).
So, with one novice track day behind me, would I be ready for an open pit session at Bedford (my preferred venue)? Or am I better advised to head off to Mallory or Cadwell for another session limited to novices like myself?
I wouldn't worry about the open sessions - this is a good thing - you get the whole day to play and can spread yourself out from everyone else as and when. So, with one novice track day behind me, would I be ready for an open pit session at Bedford (my preferred venue)? Or am I better advised to head off to Mallory or Cadwell for another session limited to novices like myself?
I would though be somewhat cautious of Cadwell - Yes it is tight and yes the barriers are close - when you come over the mountain and it all goes a bit squiffy, they seem to be even closer still. case in point - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc2xU8Lj8F4
My preference would be do Bedford again or possibly consider Snetterton - also lots of space and has a nice flow with the two sections at either end of the two straights.
After that, you should then do Cadwell - As despite the risk, it is definitely the best circuit with the ups and downs and presents the best challenge. Having driven most of the circuits, Cadwell is my favourite....
Id do open pit at bedford again... opl works really well at bedford, nice relaxed day, out and in whenever you please. Also, red flags are very rare at bedford, and theres plenty of space out there, so plenty of safe, quality track time.
Bedford also has the advantage of holding no racing, so racecars have no need to test there. Opl at oulton or donington will always have some racecars, which might be intimidating for a novice.
Id probably do 3-4 days at bedford to get comfortable with the car, the trackday setup, and your driving. Then graduate to the real racetracks, oulton, donny, cadwell are all awesome!
Bedford also has the advantage of holding no racing, so racecars have no need to test there. Opl at oulton or donington will always have some racecars, which might be intimidating for a novice.
Id probably do 3-4 days at bedford to get comfortable with the car, the trackday setup, and your driving. Then graduate to the real racetracks, oulton, donny, cadwell are all awesome!
There’s a pretty good case to be made that the most dangerous time for a novice to be on track is when he’s surrounded by equally inexperienced drivers..............
A general open pitlane day at any circuit should be fine.
For circuit choice however, getting away from Bedford is the best thing you can do (feel free to search other threads for my one man crusade on this topic). Mallory is fun, Cadwell is epic - both well worth trying but I would aim for a general day rather than novice.
A general open pitlane day at any circuit should be fine.
For circuit choice however, getting away from Bedford is the best thing you can do (feel free to search other threads for my one man crusade on this topic). Mallory is fun, Cadwell is epic - both well worth trying but I would aim for a general day rather than novice.
fat80b said:
My preference would be do Bedford again or possibly consider Snetterton - also lots of space and has a nice flow with the two sections at either end of the two straights.
Snet is a great shout actually, I concur. The thinking is that at some point OP you're going to want to get used to driving in a more conventional circuit and with a higher density of traffic than Bedford. You might be a bit surprised for the first few laps but that's good as that will keep you on your toes and you'll take it easy. Snet remains a very safe circuit and probably more fun than Bedford. The idea of not doing a novice day is sound too as you can (sort of) rely on other drivers skills in traffic. I kind of (half) agree with Steve H's counter intuitive reservations on Bedford. It may well lull you into a false sense of security and perhaps not prepare you that well for other tracks.
Edited by nickfrog on Friday 31st July 08:20
I`d book another Bedford now you know the circuit and have a bit of familiarity on your side. As you say , its a novice friendly circuit so you can build up a bit of speed rather than try learning another layout.
Open pit lane is a great way to do as much as you want or as little. If it was me , I`d be booking another Bedford
Open pit lane is a great way to do as much as you want or as little. If it was me , I`d be booking another Bedford
Steve H said:
There’s a pretty good case to be made that the most dangerous time for a novice to be on track is when he’s surrounded by equally inexperienced drivers..............
A general open pitlane day at any circuit should be fine.
For circuit choice however, getting away from Bedford is the best thing you can do (feel free to search other threads for my one man crusade on this topic). Mallory is fun, Cadwell is epic - both well worth trying but I would aim for a general day rather than novice.
You don’t like Bedford then 😂A general open pitlane day at any circuit should be fine.
For circuit choice however, getting away from Bedford is the best thing you can do (feel free to search other threads for my one man crusade on this topic). Mallory is fun, Cadwell is epic - both well worth trying but I would aim for a general day rather than novice.
I did my first track day at an open pit lane session at Cadwell Park, not realising how twisty it is....and loved it. But the comments about barriers are true, and much of the grass seems to slope downhill towards them. Here's a link to a video taken by someone following me around Cadwell a couple of years later - it gives you an idea of the circuit geography. cadwell link
BUT, my car is pretty quick in a straight line, and I have been driving powerful cars for most of the 49 3/4 years I have been driving, so i wasn't intimidated by everyone being faster than me - because most of them weren't.
I have done track days at all of the circuits mentioned, and agree that Bedford is a good track to polish up your driving skills because there is so little to hit. I agree that there is no need to do a novice session - you are better driving among people going the same speed as you, but do watch your mirrors properly. Having said that, drivers of faster cars do tend to behave responsibly. The comments about Snetterton are also fair - its a good fast circuit, interesting but not too hard to learn.
Above all else, doing track days has one big benefit as far as I am concerned - it stops me feeling the need for speed on the public road.
BUT, my car is pretty quick in a straight line, and I have been driving powerful cars for most of the 49 3/4 years I have been driving, so i wasn't intimidated by everyone being faster than me - because most of them weren't.
I have done track days at all of the circuits mentioned, and agree that Bedford is a good track to polish up your driving skills because there is so little to hit. I agree that there is no need to do a novice session - you are better driving among people going the same speed as you, but do watch your mirrors properly. Having said that, drivers of faster cars do tend to behave responsibly. The comments about Snetterton are also fair - its a good fast circuit, interesting but not too hard to learn.
Above all else, doing track days has one big benefit as far as I am concerned - it stops me feeling the need for speed on the public road.
QBee said:
Above all else, doing track days has one big benefit as far as I am concerned - it stops me feeling the need for speed on the public road.
Amen to that. By sheer contrast, track days have made me realise how mundane and boring road driving is unless perhaps you live somewhere special like the Alps, Corsica or Scotland. But not much choice of local cicuits there though anyway... nickfrog said:
Jon, are you on your own? We're at Snet on 09/09 with Javelin so if you want some pointers or even someone to follow (which can be a decent alternative to tuition) feel free to PM me. One of us is in a Boxster too, as I assume that's what you have.
Thank you so much Nick - that's very kind. I think I'm going with the option of Bedford for my next foray but based on your advice (and that of others) Snetterton is firmly on my shortlist for my first 'proper' track!QBee said:
I did my first track day at an open pit lane session at Cadwell Park, not realising how twisty it is....and loved it. But the comments about barriers are true, and much of the grass seems to slope downhill towards them. Here's a link to a video taken by someone following me around Cadwell a couple of years later - it gives you an idea of the circuit geography. cadwell link
BUT, my car is pretty quick in a straight line, and I have been driving powerful cars for most of the 49 3/4 years I have been driving, so i wasn't intimidated by everyone being faster than me - because most of them weren't.
I have done track days at all of the circuits mentioned, and agree that Bedford is a good track to polish up your driving skills because there is so little to hit. I agree that there is no need to do a novice session - you are better driving among people going the same speed as you, but do watch your mirrors properly. Having said that, drivers of faster cars do tend to behave responsibly. The comments about Snetterton are also fair - its a good fast circuit, interesting but not too hard to learn.
Above all else, doing track days has one big benefit as far as I am concerned - it stops me feeling the need for speed on the public road.
Interesting you should say that. I went out with a group of Boxster owners for a jaunt to Wales yesterday. We had a great time but I was reflecting that the driving experience itself was significantly less satisfying than my recent trackday. And I agree that getting the best out of your car on track reduces the temptation to take liberties on the road.BUT, my car is pretty quick in a straight line, and I have been driving powerful cars for most of the 49 3/4 years I have been driving, so i wasn't intimidated by everyone being faster than me - because most of them weren't.
I have done track days at all of the circuits mentioned, and agree that Bedford is a good track to polish up your driving skills because there is so little to hit. I agree that there is no need to do a novice session - you are better driving among people going the same speed as you, but do watch your mirrors properly. Having said that, drivers of faster cars do tend to behave responsibly. The comments about Snetterton are also fair - its a good fast circuit, interesting but not too hard to learn.
Above all else, doing track days has one big benefit as far as I am concerned - it stops me feeling the need for speed on the public road.
Another top tip for TDs when you're learning, be a bit patient for it to calm down if you don't want to go out in traffic.
One of the more distracting / potentially dangerous things is often times other drivers rather than you making mistake on your own, particularly if you've had tuition, (which I highly recommend you do) and you build up your pace slowly. When you're trying to go around cautiously at your own pace and see a rear view mirror full of someone faster and impatient, darting about centimetres from your bumper putting pressure on you to come off line so they can get passed. It can be intimidating and it's easy to fall into the trap of speeding up beyond your comfort level, paying more attention to them in your mirror than concentrating on what YOU are doing or just pulling off line to let them past, then not being able to get back on the right line into a turn or leaving yourself enough breaking space etc all of which can lead to your coming off the track in the worst case. People are not supposed to do that, it's against the rules but many people still do in my experience.
As I'm sure you know, the general advice is to stick to your line until you get to a safe over taking place, ideally a straight and most people will honour this. But there are generally quieter times during the day, I found it much less stressful go out with limited traffic until I found my feet.
After the sighting laps at start of day, most peoples are chomping at the bit to get out on track, it's normally busiest (and most aggressive) just after the start. by mid-late morning and particularly getting closer to lunch break, you'll probably find that it calms down a bit and you might even get to do laps with no traffic at all.
Same after lunch very busy and towards mid to late afternoon will calm down.
I did an evening track day at Donnington in July and found that 40 mins before close many people seemed to have left, I did 2 x 15 min session with barely any other cars there and several laps with nothing at all, it's bliss then because you can relax and just focus on what you're doing.
https://vimeo.com/443056263
In this short clip at Donny demonstrates a little of what I was talking about above,
I was going down Craner Curves pretty much as fast as I can in my car, and there was a race prep'd Boxster right on my tail, all the way down, I wasn't going to be able to come off line at the speed I was doing through CC or old hairpin, so I held the line until the straight before Schwantz curve and lifted a bit (and indicated) to let him past. He actually then spun in front of me at Coppice, but thankfully I had time to stop. It probably would have been wiser for him to hang back a little bit, and take me after coppice on the straight, that would definitely be the safest thing to do. At the same time, I do understand when you're 'on it', you just want to keep the pace you're doing, which is why I let him past, rather than hold the racing line all the way to the straight. I spoke to him after, nice guy and no bad feelings or anything, and luckily no damage to either of our cars as a result.
However, that spin also demonstrates why coming up to close to people through corners at TD can be a bad idea, because sh*t does happen sometimes. Driver error, mechanical failure, tyre blow out etc and the last thing you want to happen is contact with another car, really no need for it.
Good luck with your TDs, enjoy it. I really like Bedford and found it quite easy to learn. I had tuition from an instructor called Simon, he was great, see if you can get him.
One of the more distracting / potentially dangerous things is often times other drivers rather than you making mistake on your own, particularly if you've had tuition, (which I highly recommend you do) and you build up your pace slowly. When you're trying to go around cautiously at your own pace and see a rear view mirror full of someone faster and impatient, darting about centimetres from your bumper putting pressure on you to come off line so they can get passed. It can be intimidating and it's easy to fall into the trap of speeding up beyond your comfort level, paying more attention to them in your mirror than concentrating on what YOU are doing or just pulling off line to let them past, then not being able to get back on the right line into a turn or leaving yourself enough breaking space etc all of which can lead to your coming off the track in the worst case. People are not supposed to do that, it's against the rules but many people still do in my experience.
As I'm sure you know, the general advice is to stick to your line until you get to a safe over taking place, ideally a straight and most people will honour this. But there are generally quieter times during the day, I found it much less stressful go out with limited traffic until I found my feet.
After the sighting laps at start of day, most peoples are chomping at the bit to get out on track, it's normally busiest (and most aggressive) just after the start. by mid-late morning and particularly getting closer to lunch break, you'll probably find that it calms down a bit and you might even get to do laps with no traffic at all.
Same after lunch very busy and towards mid to late afternoon will calm down.
I did an evening track day at Donnington in July and found that 40 mins before close many people seemed to have left, I did 2 x 15 min session with barely any other cars there and several laps with nothing at all, it's bliss then because you can relax and just focus on what you're doing.
https://vimeo.com/443056263
In this short clip at Donny demonstrates a little of what I was talking about above,
I was going down Craner Curves pretty much as fast as I can in my car, and there was a race prep'd Boxster right on my tail, all the way down, I wasn't going to be able to come off line at the speed I was doing through CC or old hairpin, so I held the line until the straight before Schwantz curve and lifted a bit (and indicated) to let him past. He actually then spun in front of me at Coppice, but thankfully I had time to stop. It probably would have been wiser for him to hang back a little bit, and take me after coppice on the straight, that would definitely be the safest thing to do. At the same time, I do understand when you're 'on it', you just want to keep the pace you're doing, which is why I let him past, rather than hold the racing line all the way to the straight. I spoke to him after, nice guy and no bad feelings or anything, and luckily no damage to either of our cars as a result.
However, that spin also demonstrates why coming up to close to people through corners at TD can be a bad idea, because sh*t does happen sometimes. Driver error, mechanical failure, tyre blow out etc and the last thing you want to happen is contact with another car, really no need for it.
Good luck with your TDs, enjoy it. I really like Bedford and found it quite easy to learn. I had tuition from an instructor called Simon, he was great, see if you can get him.
Edited by handbraketurn on Tuesday 4th August 12:14
handbraketurn said:
Another top tip for TDs when you're learning, be a bit patient for it to calm down if you don't want to go out in traffic.
One of the more distracting / potentially dangerous things is often times other drivers rather than you making mistake on your own, particularly if you've had tuition, (which I highly recommend you do) and you build up your pace slowly. When you're trying to go around cautiously at your own pace and see a rear view mirror full of someone faster and impatient, darting about centimetres from your bumper putting pressure on you to come off line so they can get passed. It can be intimidating and it's easy to fall into the trap of speeding up beyond your comfort level, paying more attention to them in your mirror than concentrating on what YOU are doing or just pulling off line to let them past, then not being able to get back on the right line into a turn or leaving yourself enough breaking space etc all of which can lead to your coming off the track in the worst case. People are not supposed to do that, it's against the rules but many people still do in my experience.
As I'm sure you know, the general advice is to stick to your line until you get to a safe over taking place, ideally a straight and most people will honour this. But there are generally quieter times during the day, I found it much less stressful go out with limited traffic until I found my feet.
After the sighting laps at start of day, most peoples are chomping at the bit to get out on track, it's normally busiest (and most aggressive) just after the start. by mid-late morning and particularly getting closer to lunch break, you'll probably find that it calms down a bit and you might even get to do laps with no traffic at all.
Same after lunch very busy and towards mid to late afternoon will calm down.
I did an evening track day at Donnington in July and found that 40 mins before close many people seemed to have left, I did 2 x 15 min session with barely any other cars there and several laps with nothing at all, it's bliss then because you can relax and just focus on what you're doing.
https://vimeo.com/443056263
In this short clip at Donny demonstrates a little of what I was talking about above,
I was going down Craner Curves pretty much as fast as I can in my car, and there was a race prep'd Boxster right on my tail, all the way down, I wasn't going to be able to come off line at the speed I was doing through CC or old hairpin, so I held the line until the straight before Schwantz curve and lifted a bit (and indicated) to let him past. He actually then spun in front of me at Coppice, but thankfully I had time to stop. It probably would have been wiser for him to hang back a little bit, and take me after coppice on the straight, that would definitely be the safest thing to do. At the same time, I do understand when you're 'on it', you just want to keep the pace you're doing, which is why I let him past, rather than hold the racing line all the way to the straight. I spoke to him after, nice guy and no bad feelings or anything, and luckily no damage to either of our cars as a result.
However, that spin also demonstrates why coming up to close to people through corners at TD can be a bad idea, because sh*t does happen sometimes. Driver error, mechanical failure, tyre blow out etc and the last thing you want to happen is contact with another car, really no need for it.
Good luck with your TDs, enjoy it. I really like Bedford and found it quite easy to learn. I had tuition from a chap called Simon, he was great.
Many thanks - all really helpful advice which I appreciate. I can't wait to get back on the track!One of the more distracting / potentially dangerous things is often times other drivers rather than you making mistake on your own, particularly if you've had tuition, (which I highly recommend you do) and you build up your pace slowly. When you're trying to go around cautiously at your own pace and see a rear view mirror full of someone faster and impatient, darting about centimetres from your bumper putting pressure on you to come off line so they can get passed. It can be intimidating and it's easy to fall into the trap of speeding up beyond your comfort level, paying more attention to them in your mirror than concentrating on what YOU are doing or just pulling off line to let them past, then not being able to get back on the right line into a turn or leaving yourself enough breaking space etc all of which can lead to your coming off the track in the worst case. People are not supposed to do that, it's against the rules but many people still do in my experience.
As I'm sure you know, the general advice is to stick to your line until you get to a safe over taking place, ideally a straight and most people will honour this. But there are generally quieter times during the day, I found it much less stressful go out with limited traffic until I found my feet.
After the sighting laps at start of day, most peoples are chomping at the bit to get out on track, it's normally busiest (and most aggressive) just after the start. by mid-late morning and particularly getting closer to lunch break, you'll probably find that it calms down a bit and you might even get to do laps with no traffic at all.
Same after lunch very busy and towards mid to late afternoon will calm down.
I did an evening track day at Donnington in July and found that 40 mins before close many people seemed to have left, I did 2 x 15 min session with barely any other cars there and several laps with nothing at all, it's bliss then because you can relax and just focus on what you're doing.
https://vimeo.com/443056263
In this short clip at Donny demonstrates a little of what I was talking about above,
I was going down Craner Curves pretty much as fast as I can in my car, and there was a race prep'd Boxster right on my tail, all the way down, I wasn't going to be able to come off line at the speed I was doing through CC or old hairpin, so I held the line until the straight before Schwantz curve and lifted a bit (and indicated) to let him past. He actually then spun in front of me at Coppice, but thankfully I had time to stop. It probably would have been wiser for him to hang back a little bit, and take me after coppice on the straight, that would definitely be the safest thing to do. At the same time, I do understand when you're 'on it', you just want to keep the pace you're doing, which is why I let him past, rather than hold the racing line all the way to the straight. I spoke to him after, nice guy and no bad feelings or anything, and luckily no damage to either of our cars as a result.
However, that spin also demonstrates why coming up to close to people through corners at TD can be a bad idea, because sh*t does happen sometimes. Driver error, mechanical failure, tyre blow out etc and the last thing you want to happen is contact with another car, really no need for it.
Good luck with your TDs, enjoy it. I really like Bedford and found it quite easy to learn. I had tuition from a chap called Simon, he was great.
Edited by handbraketurn on Monday 3rd August 22:42
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff