R53 or R56 Cooper S for track?
Discussion
Agreed with the previous poster. I run a sensibly modified R53 as a fun/track car for all of the reasons described, not least reliability vs the early R56 models.
I'm probably going to be moving it on in favour of something RWD when all of this lockdown stuff passes. Feel free to shoot me a line if you're still in the market.
I'm probably going to be moving it on in favour of something RWD when all of this lockdown stuff passes. Feel free to shoot me a line if you're still in the market.
I’ll throw my 2p into the discussion....I and another friend both had R56s & improved them as weekend toys/occasional track day cars from standard cars. Both our cars were well maintained before we bought them & appeared to have replacement timing chains etc. & were then remapped to circa 250 bhp with the necessary normal supporting mods as well as uprated suspension. We also have friends who’ve converted R53s into full track cars with caves & sunk lots of £s in to them.
If you want performance a tuned R56 will comfortably out run an R53 from my experience. Both cars have their weaknesses & they seem to be very susceptible to lack of maintenance/care which is magnified if you tune them. The manufacturer’s service intervals partly cause the problems as well so finding a car that’s been over serviced is always a good sign. Each is different in character.
OP get yourself over to the Minitorque forum for ideas & possibly cars that have been improved (though you’ll need thick skin at the level of humour) which are being sold via the forum. If you can buy a car that’s had the mods, it should be cheaper than doing it from scratch as the modded cars don’t fetch anywhere near what it costs to improve them.
Gratuitous photo of a track day at Bedford a few years ago
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If you want performance a tuned R56 will comfortably out run an R53 from my experience. Both cars have their weaknesses & they seem to be very susceptible to lack of maintenance/care which is magnified if you tune them. The manufacturer’s service intervals partly cause the problems as well so finding a car that’s been over serviced is always a good sign. Each is different in character.
OP get yourself over to the Minitorque forum for ideas & possibly cars that have been improved (though you’ll need thick skin at the level of humour) which are being sold via the forum. If you can buy a car that’s had the mods, it should be cheaper than doing it from scratch as the modded cars don’t fetch anywhere near what it costs to improve them.
Gratuitous photo of a track day at Bedford a few years ago
. Edited by MrC986 on Saturday 25th April 15:36
I've actually had both, at the same time ...
R53 running 235bhp (newcam cam, 550 injectors, milltek catback, 1320 Mini remap), quaife diff, shorter ratio facelift gearbox, SMF, meister r coilovers, RARB, bucket seats, R56S front calipers with Carbotech XP8 pads & R888/AO48's depending on weather. This was setup purely for track, so fairly uncompromising in its manners.
R56 fJCW running 235bhp (airtec intercooler, catless downpipe, aem induction kit), quaife diff, helix organic clutch & SMF, Ohlins Road & Track coilovers, recaro seats, Carbotech XP8 pads & R888/AO48's depending on weather. This was a daily driver after i sold my e90 M3 for a Boxster 981S.
Back to back on track, the R53 was quicker overall, having more playful handling, being far more adjustable on the limit and having far better feel from the steering, it also rewarded you more for chasing the revs, the supercharger whine sounding brilliant. With a map however, the R56 would ultimately be far quicker, but not necessarily more fun!! A bit like a Megane RS250 is far quicker than a clio 1*2, but its not necessarily any better.
On the road, the R56's power delivery and superior ride quality (the Ohlins were outstanding on the road) made for a far better package.
As a track car, i think id go for another R53, its just got that little bit more character.
R53 running 235bhp (newcam cam, 550 injectors, milltek catback, 1320 Mini remap), quaife diff, shorter ratio facelift gearbox, SMF, meister r coilovers, RARB, bucket seats, R56S front calipers with Carbotech XP8 pads & R888/AO48's depending on weather. This was setup purely for track, so fairly uncompromising in its manners.
R56 fJCW running 235bhp (airtec intercooler, catless downpipe, aem induction kit), quaife diff, helix organic clutch & SMF, Ohlins Road & Track coilovers, recaro seats, Carbotech XP8 pads & R888/AO48's depending on weather. This was a daily driver after i sold my e90 M3 for a Boxster 981S.
Back to back on track, the R53 was quicker overall, having more playful handling, being far more adjustable on the limit and having far better feel from the steering, it also rewarded you more for chasing the revs, the supercharger whine sounding brilliant. With a map however, the R56 would ultimately be far quicker, but not necessarily more fun!! A bit like a Megane RS250 is far quicker than a clio 1*2, but its not necessarily any better.
On the road, the R56's power delivery and superior ride quality (the Ohlins were outstanding on the road) made for a far better package.
As a track car, i think id go for another R53, its just got that little bit more character.
vanman1936 said:
What’s the tuning market / cost like for the R53?
Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
Re suspension and handling , it's worth test driving a mini and a clio just to see which you prefer.Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
The mini doesn't give anywhere near as much steering feedback compared to a clio but it is very stable just corners with no fuss .
Not bad i'd just like to feel a bit more what more's going on .
We've had both and found the R53 much more planted, the back end on the R56 was very lively!
We had a nightmare with the r56, it was very unreliable, although a much much nice road car. As a track car i would go for an r53, although they do rust which is a never-ending nightmare...
...So I've now got a 197 Clio track car
We had a nightmare with the r56, it was very unreliable, although a much much nice road car. As a track car i would go for an r53, although they do rust which is a never-ending nightmare...
...So I've now got a 197 Clio track car
vanman1936 said:
What’s the tuning market / cost like for the R53?
Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
The market is vast, and the upgrade paths are pretty well-trodden. Minitorque is an excellent resource, as is the R53 Owners Club on Facebook.Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
For what it's worth, I couldn't think of a track-ready car that I'd rather own <£10k, so I decided to keep my R53 and plough more money into it (expensive coilovers, Coolerworx shifter, cam etc.).
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 7th July 17:20
vanman1936 said:
What’s the tuning market / cost like for the R53?
Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
Mine has set me back around £3500 including the car.Appreciate a “how long is a piece of string Q”, but just want an idea of headline parameters for engine, brakes, suspension to get it nicely set up for fast road / track....
Brakes (R56 is the standard upgrade)
Coilovers
New suspension joints/Poly bushes all round
CAI/Pulley/Cam/injectors/exhaust/remap
Seats/harnesses
Many, many, many options depending on your budget at all points.
I and one of my mates run R53's on track, another of my mates runs an R56 so I'm quite well placed to comment.
Last week we were all at Cadwell and the R56 spent more time off the track than on it fixing boost issues in the main, the early R56 has a bad reputation for engine issues, I think they were much improved after 2011 but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
My R53 and my mates just kept running all day long no fuss. My mate who owns the R56 will say himself he should have got an R53.
When the R56 is running properly it's probably a bit faster in a straight line I would think but the 53 is no slouch either and both versions have good markets for modifying.
Good service history is a must whichever way you decide to go, including making sure a Supercharger service has been done on the R53 or at least plan to get it done.
Last week we were all at Cadwell and the R56 spent more time off the track than on it fixing boost issues in the main, the early R56 has a bad reputation for engine issues, I think they were much improved after 2011 but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
My R53 and my mates just kept running all day long no fuss. My mate who owns the R56 will say himself he should have got an R53.
When the R56 is running properly it's probably a bit faster in a straight line I would think but the 53 is no slouch either and both versions have good markets for modifying.
Good service history is a must whichever way you decide to go, including making sure a Supercharger service has been done on the R53 or at least plan to get it done.
Jamescrs said:
I and one of my mates run R53's on track, another of my mates runs an R56 so I'm quite well placed to comment.
Last week we were all at Cadwell and the R56 spent more time off the track than on it fixing boost issues in the main, the early R56 has a bad reputation for engine issues, I think they were much improved after 2011 but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
My R53 and my mates just kept running all day long no fuss. My mate who owns the R56 will say himself he should have got an R53.
When the R56 is running properly it's probably a bit faster in a straight line I would think but the 53 is no slouch either and both versions have good markets for modifying.
Good service history is a must whichever way you decide to go, including making sure a Supercharger service has been done on the R53 or at least plan to get it done.
Agree with most of this.Last week we were all at Cadwell and the R56 spent more time off the track than on it fixing boost issues in the main, the early R56 has a bad reputation for engine issues, I think they were much improved after 2011 but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
My R53 and my mates just kept running all day long no fuss. My mate who owns the R56 will say himself he should have got an R53.
When the R56 is running properly it's probably a bit faster in a straight line I would think but the 53 is no slouch either and both versions have good markets for modifying.
Good service history is a must whichever way you decide to go, including making sure a Supercharger service has been done on the R53 or at least plan to get it done.
The R53 has a reputation for unreliability caused by cheapskates not maintaining it - none of its common issues are catastrophic. The R56's reputation stems from poor engineering and the PSA pre-2011 engine having a number of major inherent weaknesses.
E-bmw said:
Mine has set me back around £3500 including the car.
Brakes (R56 is the standard upgrade)
Coilovers
New suspension joints/Poly bushes all round
CAI/Pulley/Cam/injectors/exhaust/remap
Seats/harnesses
Many, many, many options depending on your budget at all points.
You've managed to do that very cost-effectively! Given that decent coilovers could have conceivably taken up a third of that budget alone, and labour on polybushing is pretty punchy (front subframe out etc.), I assume you've done a lot of it yourself?Brakes (R56 is the standard upgrade)
Coilovers
New suspension joints/Poly bushes all round
CAI/Pulley/Cam/injectors/exhaust/remap
Seats/harnesses
Many, many, many options depending on your budget at all points.
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