Tyres, Geometry, or Driving? (V70a content)
Discussion
Nickjd said:
You will get wear on the leading edge of tread voids and peaks on the trailing edge where the rubber is unsupported and folds into the void. This is true for both cornering and also braking and traction loads. I would suspect a bit too much right foot coming out of corners.
Right..... too much boot as in running wide with understeer or spinning up?braddo said:
I would say contributing factors are tyre pressures are too low and you need more negative camber. The outside shoulder of the tyre is overheating and melting and moving to form the ridge next to the first groove (i.e. left hand side of first photo).
what pressures would you suggest? I've always just stuck with 30psi hotnegative camber is a bit of an issue as i'm still on standard suspension which is none adjustable
Mr MXT said:
Can’t help with the tyre issue, but also at Oulton yesterday park yesterday. One of the best TDs I’ve done!
was certainly a good day! minimal stoppages which was a bonus. Can't believe how lucky we were with the weather!!!Which car were you in? 2 different parties complained about how we were driving, so hopefully it wasn't you we upset.
I'm assuming it is a FWD car? It looks to me as though your corner entry is wrong, leaping off the brakes, and turning in way too late, both inducing understeer! Then as others have said, too much power, probably increasing the amount of steering input to ( in your mind ) compensate for the car pushing wide!
If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
ginettajoe said:
I'm assuming it is a FWD car? It looks to me as though your corner entry is wrong, leaping off the brakes, and turning in way too late, both inducing understeer! Then as others have said, too much power, probably increasing the amount of steering input to ( in your mind ) compensate for the car pushing wide!
If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
it is fwd yes - a mk3 clio with circa 180bhp. If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
it wasn't coned yesterday but it is funny you should mention that, as i've previously done tuition at Oulton - the instructor was very keen on teaching me late turn in, especially at druids, lodge, and old hall.
Rowe said:
ginettajoe said:
I'm assuming it is a FWD car? It looks to me as though your corner entry is wrong, leaping off the brakes, and turning in way too late, both inducing understeer! Then as others have said, too much power, probably increasing the amount of steering input to ( in your mind ) compensate for the car pushing wide!
If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
it is fwd yes - a mk3 clio with circa 180bhp. If the circuit was coned yesterday, ignore where the turning cones are placed, they are way,way too late!!
it wasn't coned yesterday but it is funny you should mention that, as i've previously done tuition at Oulton - the instructor was very keen on teaching me late turn in, especially at druids, lodge, and old hall.
Short clip of generally the lines and braking points I do (minus the few missed apex's)
Feedback would be appreciated.
https://youtu.be/g-sjIlOSsE0
(I'm the car infront)
Feedback would be appreciated.
https://youtu.be/g-sjIlOSsE0
(I'm the car infront)
Rowe said:
Short clip of generally the lines and braking points I do (minus the few missed apex's)
Feedback would be appreciated.
https://youtu.be/g-sjIlOSsE0
(I'm the car infront)
You are turning in way too late everywhere, and your mate in the following car, probably had a similar problem with his front tyres! Getting a car round a circuit correctly, is a science, it is the physics of moving that mass of metal along a piece of tarmac! It is very easy to make a slow lap feel fast, but far more difficult to make a fast lap feel slow!!Feedback would be appreciated.
https://youtu.be/g-sjIlOSsE0
(I'm the car infront)
Those look like standard road tyres to me, and to have overheated the outside edges.
I use track tyres for track days, road tyres for road use, and have the car set up with one degree of negative camber on the front wheels (so that they look slightly like they are running on the inside edges).
This has nothing to do with adjustable dampers, it is set up by the guy with the computerised tracking machine - you just have to ask him for it - and it is a permanent change to the car's set up.
Yes, you will have the initial outlay for a set of wheels and track tyres, but it will pay you back in the long run.
I have never had your tyre problem in about 40 track days on Toyo R888 and R888Rs, but am convinced the camber adjustment helps.
It is also fine on the road and on my car, which is about the same weight as yours, it doesn't do any damage to the road tyres in normal road use.
I haven't looked at the video clips, my only general comment about driving styles is that all the great racing drivers were the smoothest too.
You should be going smoothly into corners in full control of the car and accelerating out, instead of throwing it in and hanging onto it for dear life.
The faster you leave a corner, the sooner you will arrive at the next one.
I use track tyres for track days, road tyres for road use, and have the car set up with one degree of negative camber on the front wheels (so that they look slightly like they are running on the inside edges).
This has nothing to do with adjustable dampers, it is set up by the guy with the computerised tracking machine - you just have to ask him for it - and it is a permanent change to the car's set up.
Yes, you will have the initial outlay for a set of wheels and track tyres, but it will pay you back in the long run.
I have never had your tyre problem in about 40 track days on Toyo R888 and R888Rs, but am convinced the camber adjustment helps.
It is also fine on the road and on my car, which is about the same weight as yours, it doesn't do any damage to the road tyres in normal road use.
I haven't looked at the video clips, my only general comment about driving styles is that all the great racing drivers were the smoothest too.
You should be going smoothly into corners in full control of the car and accelerating out, instead of throwing it in and hanging onto it for dear life.
The faster you leave a corner, the sooner you will arrive at the next one.
They're v70a semis (medium compound)
I also have a set of road wheels/tyres which I run on wet days too.
I've done a similar number of days to yourself, but never had this outer bulging before. This is only the second times I've ran these tyres though. They were fine at Blyton before Christmas.
My reply about being on standard suspension I probably should of expanded on.... camber cannot be adjusted on this vehicle. I did the geometry myself the day before and set it to 8 minutes of toe out
I also have a set of road wheels/tyres which I run on wet days too.
I've done a similar number of days to yourself, but never had this outer bulging before. This is only the second times I've ran these tyres though. They were fine at Blyton before Christmas.
My reply about being on standard suspension I probably should of expanded on.... camber cannot be adjusted on this vehicle. I did the geometry myself the day before and set it to 8 minutes of toe out
I don't know enough about the effect of toe out to answer your point about set up.
I am surprised a Clio cannot have its camber adjusted, but again don't know enough about them.
My own car is set to its standard road set up apart from the 1 degree of negative camber, by a guy with a Hunter machine and knowledge of the different settings for road and race use - he races his own car and sets them up for other people.
I would have expected Blyton to do at least as much damage to the tyres as Oulton Park. My commiserations for your ruined tyres.
I am surprised a Clio cannot have its camber adjusted, but again don't know enough about them.
My own car is set to its standard road set up apart from the 1 degree of negative camber, by a guy with a Hunter machine and knowledge of the different settings for road and race use - he races his own car and sets them up for other people.
I would have expected Blyton to do at least as much damage to the tyres as Oulton Park. My commiserations for your ruined tyres.
Can you really not adjust camber on that mk3 clio? I'm sure there is a way, on the older 182s etc you can get camber bolts, I know nowt about clios really but on other cars you can shim out on the strut (mcph struts usually) or run adjustable top mounts.
Also wear like that as well as understeering round points to too soft spring rates.
Ref camber in general surprised that TVR is OK on just 1 deg neg? The racers were on somat like 5 degrees, I've run 3. 6 degrees on a non tvr road able car tho 2. 5 was better for tyre life.
Also wear like that as well as understeering round points to too soft spring rates.
Ref camber in general surprised that TVR is OK on just 1 deg neg? The racers were on somat like 5 degrees, I've run 3. 6 degrees on a non tvr road able car tho 2. 5 was better for tyre life.
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