Keep old car for track, or buy newer (faster) daily?
Discussion
Hi PH,
Apologies if covered before but couldn't find specific question...
I've got a 9y/o Alfa Mito turbo (abarth powered) which I've used for a few track days (Brands indy & Nurburgring TF). It's been family owned since new, and whilst on 70k has FSH and is in tip-tip condition. Have also spent ~£2k upgrading tyres, brakes & suspension, which has left it a competent (if a little underpowered) entry-level track day car. It's great fun and despite being one of the lowest power cars usually ends up mid-table amongst typical track day pack.
I'm considering buying a nearly-new car that'd be big enough for a family (in future) and better for long motorway journeys (i30N, 228i, octavia vrs etc.).
Would you recommend I keep the Alfa (worth about £2k) enabling it to be modified to be more track-focussed, and to spare the new daily for risks and wear you get on track, or is it better to have an all-in-one car, with the much better performance these newer cars offer?
Thanks!
Nick
Apologies if covered before but couldn't find specific question...
I've got a 9y/o Alfa Mito turbo (abarth powered) which I've used for a few track days (Brands indy & Nurburgring TF). It's been family owned since new, and whilst on 70k has FSH and is in tip-tip condition. Have also spent ~£2k upgrading tyres, brakes & suspension, which has left it a competent (if a little underpowered) entry-level track day car. It's great fun and despite being one of the lowest power cars usually ends up mid-table amongst typical track day pack.
I'm considering buying a nearly-new car that'd be big enough for a family (in future) and better for long motorway journeys (i30N, 228i, octavia vrs etc.).
Would you recommend I keep the Alfa (worth about £2k) enabling it to be modified to be more track-focussed, and to spare the new daily for risks and wear you get on track, or is it better to have an all-in-one car, with the much better performance these newer cars offer?
Thanks!
Nick
I'd run the 2 cars - that way you've always got a spare if you wake up on the morning of your track day to find the 'track car' not starting or something.
The newer/bigger cars you've mentioned are probably a fair bit heavier than the Mito too - so don't forget to factor in the extra running costs and higher wear on everything.
The other benefits of a having a £2k track car, is you only stand to lose a max of £2k if you bin it, and you can decide to strip/enhance it a bit more for track work (e.g. lightweight bucket seat for the driver, remove rear seats, etc.) than you could if it had to do daily/family duties.
The newer/bigger cars you've mentioned are probably a fair bit heavier than the Mito too - so don't forget to factor in the extra running costs and higher wear on everything.
The other benefits of a having a £2k track car, is you only stand to lose a max of £2k if you bin it, and you can decide to strip/enhance it a bit more for track work (e.g. lightweight bucket seat for the driver, remove rear seats, etc.) than you could if it had to do daily/family duties.
Edited by mmm-five on Friday 24th January 10:49
mmm-five said:
The other benefits of a having a £2k track car, is you only stand to lose a max of £2k if you bin it, and you can decide to strip/enhance it a bit more for track work (e.g. lightweight bucket seat for the driver, remove rear seats, etc.) than you could if it had to do daily/family duties.
This is definitely major factor - I'm precious enough about a cheap car - would be nervous about taking a £20k+ round the ring on a TF day!Basically the old "is it more fun to drive a fast car slow or a slow car fast" question...
nick_dastardly said:
Basically the old "is it more fun to drive a fast car slow or a slow car fast" question...
Definitely the slow car fast, and when the Z4M was late after being 
tbox 115bhp 147 JTD.Had so much fun in that, and more requests for passenger laps than I ever got in the M5 or the Z4M - despite the lap time being about 1m30s slower.
Definitely concerned that now I've done basics tyres/brakes/suspension if I keep the mito for track any further mods for more power will be £££ (SS exhaust, sports cat, LSD or even bigger turbo) whereas the newer hot hatches come with 250-350 bhp, LSD, chassis bracing & active suspension right out of the box...
nick_dastardly said:
Definitely concerned that now I've done basics tyres/brakes/suspension if I keep the mito for track any further mods for more power will be £££ (SS exhaust, sports cat, LSD or even bigger turbo) whereas the newer hot hatches come with 250-350 bhp, LSD, chassis bracing & active suspension right out of the box...
Yes, there's lots you can spend, but it'll have to be a HUGE amount to get to the cost of a new car.Don't forget that even on the performance hot hatches you're looking it, they're still made to be usable day to day - so you might still want to do mods to those to make it more track-friendly...which then usually makes it less road-friendly.
I did the road car to track car with a Corrado VR6 (didn't have space for 2 cars at home at the time), and tried to keep it suitable for the road, but the stiff suspension, huge brakes and loud intake/exhaust made the 200 mile commutes a pain - so decided to sell that and get an e34 M5, which I used unmodified for 5 years (other than track pads, fluid, & track wheels & rubber) - but that worked out to about £1000/track day.
Keeping the alfa just as a track car and buying a second road car releases the alfa from all daily driving chores, meaning it can go full lightweight. Strip everything out the interior ( perhaps including the front pax seat) saves a heap more weight, cheeky back box delete for about 50p, then a remap for more power. Then thrash it mercilessly safe in the knowledge that the nice family car is safely tucked away at home should the alfa break down or get crashed.
Keep the Alfa and strip it down to proper track spec .
Do it properly and you will be amazed at how much weight you can lose from the car .
The best and cheapest mods are weight loss , if you go whole hog and replace the glass you will also lower the center of gravity .
A stripped out and lightly modded small Alfa will have a good power to weight ratio compared to even a fairly powerful but lardy mid sized road car .
Do it properly and you will be amazed at how much weight you can lose from the car .
The best and cheapest mods are weight loss , if you go whole hog and replace the glass you will also lower the center of gravity .
A stripped out and lightly modded small Alfa will have a good power to weight ratio compared to even a fairly powerful but lardy mid sized road car .
Personally, I’d go with the two car option. You’ll have considerably more fun in a cheap track only car than you would sauntering round in the expensive daily driver you can’t really afford to break.
But..... if it were me, I’d probs also sell the Alfa and use the £2k or whatever it is it’s worth towards something a bit more track focussed, caged etc. But that’s just me lol
But..... if it were me, I’d probs also sell the Alfa and use the £2k or whatever it is it’s worth towards something a bit more track focussed, caged etc. But that’s just me lol
Keep the mito, go hardcore and strip it within an inch of its life, you’ll probably strip a good couple of hundred kilos out of it (I’ve taken 400kg+ out of my TT) and you’ll dramatically alter the power to weight ratio.
If you want to go faster after this, get a spare set of wheels and some soft slicks, you’ll get more laptime gain from tyres then you will from power at this stage. On slicks I’m about 4-5 seconds a lap quicker in my car
Better the devil you know :-)
If you want to go faster after this, get a spare set of wheels and some soft slicks, you’ll get more laptime gain from tyres then you will from power at this stage. On slicks I’m about 4-5 seconds a lap quicker in my car
Better the devil you know :-)
nick_dastardly said:
Definitely concerned that now I've done basics tyres/brakes/suspension if I keep the mito for track any further mods for more power will be £££ (SS exhaust, sports cat, LSD or even bigger turbo) whereas the newer hot hatches come with 250-350 bhp, LSD, chassis bracing & active suspension right out of the box...
Given that you have sunk costs in the Alfa already, it would make sense to keep it if you enjoy it. Something to bear in mind if you strip weight out of it is that it will move the weight distribution further forwards. This could change the current balance of the car quite a bit so be prepared to spend time/money on further suspension tweaking.Edited to add: If you're going to be driving it to Germany then I wouldn't go too far with the interior strip! And defo don't remove heater/aircon.
Edited by braddo on Monday 27th January 12:58
braddo said:
Given that you have sunk costs in the Alfa already, it would make sense to keep it if you enjoy it. Something to bear in mind if you strip weight out of it is that it will move the weight distribution further forwards. This could change the current balance of the car quite a bit so be prepared to spend time/money on further suspension tweaking.
Edited to add: If you're going to be driving it to Germany then I wouldn't go too far with the interior strip! And defo don't remove heater/aircon.
Ha yeah had considered this - sure weight distribution is already fairly biased to front, and there is already a little lift-off oversteer, and a fixed-beam rear axle doesn't give much adjustment opportunity...Edited to add: If you're going to be driving it to Germany then I wouldn't go too far with the interior strip! And defo don't remove heater/aircon.
Edited by braddo on Monday 27th January 12:58
Hearing good things about the i30N, and that has a lot of the main features I'd be looking to add to the alfa anyway - LSD, valved exhaust, strut bracing etc...
nick_dastardly said:
Ha yeah had considered this - sure weight distribution is already fairly biased to front, and there is already a little lift-off oversteer, and a fixed-beam rear axle doesn't give much adjustment opportunity...
Hearing good things about the i30N, and that has a lot of the main features I'd be looking to add to the alfa anyway - LSD, valved exhaust, strut bracing etc...
If you really, really, really only want one car, then you're going to have to compromise, and a Hyundai i30N / BMW 135i / A45 AMG / Renault Megane RS / VW Golf GTI or R / Seat Cupra are not bad compromises - but you'll still end up wanting to modify it to be better on track...and then you're back to square one!Hearing good things about the i30N, and that has a lot of the main features I'd be looking to add to the alfa anyway - LSD, valved exhaust, strut bracing etc...
...and keep in mind any warranty/insurance implications of using a newer car on track - some manufacturers will refuse to cover repairs when they think it's been 'abused'...even if it is sold as a 'track-focused' car.
Edited by mmm-five on Monday 27th January 14:14
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