running costs for caterfields on track days anyone
Discussion
Hi,
after another fun track session in the Cerbera I was just going over the costs again, and after picking myself off the floor, decided there has to be a cheaper way to do it with just as much fun. I'm going through a set of pads and disks in 4 sessions [ouch], with a set of tyres lasting just a little longer. And Cerbera brakes & tyres aren't cheap.
Can anyone who is running a caterham/westfield regularly on track days [particularly a motorcycle engined one] give me an idea of how long brake pads/disks/wheels/shox etc last on hard track use, and what the costs of these sort of things are. Would the possible savings over a few years justify a track day caterfield basically.
Thanks
WB
after another fun track session in the Cerbera I was just going over the costs again, and after picking myself off the floor, decided there has to be a cheaper way to do it with just as much fun. I'm going through a set of pads and disks in 4 sessions [ouch], with a set of tyres lasting just a little longer. And Cerbera brakes & tyres aren't cheap.
Can anyone who is running a caterham/westfield regularly on track days [particularly a motorcycle engined one] give me an idea of how long brake pads/disks/wheels/shox etc last on hard track use, and what the costs of these sort of things are. Would the possible savings over a few years justify a track day caterfield basically.
Thanks
WB
This is what I've just done, bought a Westfield to go tracking in (rather than using the 308) .... not gone on any track days yet, so I'll let you know next year 
Apparently they're much easier on brakes and tyres, due to being a much lighter car. Plus (in my case) it's all Ford bits, ergo pretty cheap.
Plus it's a good enough reason to persuade the missus you need another car !
Apparently they're much easier on brakes and tyres, due to being a much lighter car. Plus (in my case) it's all Ford bits, ergo pretty cheap.
Plus it's a good enough reason to persuade the missus you need another car !
I've never known anybody go through brake discs as quickly as you. I did loads of track days in my Cerbie, and the discs lasted 40,000 miles. I used to go through a set of pads in 1-2 track days, but tyres used to last me 6,000 miles between road and track use.
Maybe you should invest some cash in getting an instructor to sit beside you and tell you why you're being so hard on your car
James
Maybe you should invest some cash in getting an instructor to sit beside you and tell you why you're being so hard on your car
James
William
Not driven Knockhill, so it is possible you'll have a different conclusion on running costs to me. But, having gone from a 4.5 Cerbie doing loads of track days, to my Superlight R doing even more track days, I have found the Caterham to be loads cheaper in just about every respect except tyres perhaps. I use Avon ACB10's which only last about 5-6 track days and are about 90 quid a corner. But they offer amazing grip in the dry.
Insurance is about 300 a year. Can do most track days on 1 tank of unleaded or super (your choice). I haven't had to change either the disks or even the pads yet either. Servicing costs have been very low, biggest cost for me was a new clutch release bearing which is an engine out job for the shocking sum of about 400 quid. I could always go and add it all up tonight but I am certain it is hugely cheaper to run for track days. Certainly the way I drive and on southern pufta circuits!
Not sure about bike engined ones, you might have rebuild costs to worry about! Allegedly.
Not driven Knockhill, so it is possible you'll have a different conclusion on running costs to me. But, having gone from a 4.5 Cerbie doing loads of track days, to my Superlight R doing even more track days, I have found the Caterham to be loads cheaper in just about every respect except tyres perhaps. I use Avon ACB10's which only last about 5-6 track days and are about 90 quid a corner. But they offer amazing grip in the dry.
Insurance is about 300 a year. Can do most track days on 1 tank of unleaded or super (your choice). I haven't had to change either the disks or even the pads yet either. Servicing costs have been very low, biggest cost for me was a new clutch release bearing which is an engine out job for the shocking sum of about 400 quid. I could always go and add it all up tonight but I am certain it is hugely cheaper to run for track days. Certainly the way I drive and on southern pufta circuits!
Not sure about bike engined ones, you might have rebuild costs to worry about! Allegedly.
I have a bike (Honda Fireblade) engined westfield. Rockingham this weekend was my 5th track day since getting the car in June. Costs due to wear on track so far run to a sum total of.
Petrol - 20 - 30ltr per trackday
Break pads - no noticable wear at all,
Rear Shocks - replaced but not due to wear on track,
Clutch - replaced due to prob when got the car,
Tyres - ACB10s (second hand ex race ones £30 each) have lasted for the 5 - now almost down to slick but giving excellent grip (have Yoko 21r's for wet and road)
See costs on my profile page about the Westfield.
Have a chat with andyvdg, he owns a Tuscan and had a go in my Westfield at Rockingham yesterday.
Derek
Petrol - 20 - 30ltr per trackday
Break pads - no noticable wear at all,
Rear Shocks - replaced but not due to wear on track,
Clutch - replaced due to prob when got the car,
Tyres - ACB10s (second hand ex race ones £30 each) have lasted for the 5 - now almost down to slick but giving excellent grip (have Yoko 21r's for wet and road)
See costs on my profile page about the Westfield.
Have a chat with andyvdg, he owns a Tuscan and had a go in my Westfield at Rockingham yesterday.
Derek
WB
Having done half a daozen track days in a big engined tin top this year - and half a dozen days in a Caterham - I reckon you are looking at +/- 20% of the cost in the Caterfield (plus you overtake most of the tin tops). Just make sure you get proper track tyres (ACB10's or better) and ditch the windscreen.
If you buy a particularly 'savvy' track car - shove in the cost of a trailer/tow bar - despite the hassle, you'll probably enjoy the day much more - as when the whistle blows, you can cruise home with air con and a CD. Not essential, but lets you mess around with the spec of the car without having to worry if you'll get busted on the way to the track.
Have fun, and see you out there.
Steve
www.SadGit.net
Having done half a daozen track days in a big engined tin top this year - and half a dozen days in a Caterham - I reckon you are looking at +/- 20% of the cost in the Caterfield (plus you overtake most of the tin tops). Just make sure you get proper track tyres (ACB10's or better) and ditch the windscreen.
If you buy a particularly 'savvy' track car - shove in the cost of a trailer/tow bar - despite the hassle, you'll probably enjoy the day much more - as when the whistle blows, you can cruise home with air con and a CD. Not essential, but lets you mess around with the spec of the car without having to worry if you'll get busted on the way to the track.
Have fun, and see you out there.
Steve
www.SadGit.net
Getcarter, I agree with you on that, I'm selling (trying to sell) my land rover at the moment, put some money into the westfield, ready for when I pass my driving test in March next year it'll be ready to sprint race, I'll be getting a Volvo (everyone thinks i'm strange, 17 with a volvo) but the reality is it's comfier than my land rover, and does more MPG, that'll be my towing car and everyday one to get to college!
Can't wait to meet some of you guys at a trackday next year sometime!
Graham
Can't wait to meet some of you guys at a trackday next year sometime!
Graham
Not an easy one to answer this. It depends as they just don't wear out disks and pads. Tyre wear depends on whether you take it on airfields and goon it but if you run sensible wheels they're not too expensive anyhow. However if you buy an old one you will be forever fettling with it, upgrading it or repairing it. It's the nature of the cars and 'part of the fun'.
Mine is tracked fairly heavily and if you have a look in the members cars section you'll see that I'm up there with the Trevors in the cost/mile stakes (I blew my engine at Donington). However they are FAAAAR more fun than anything else on track.
Personally I'm not convinced by BEC's but each to their own. What about a Formula Ford Zetec or a Formula Vauxhall/Lotus? Can be had for peanuts and as long as gooning & passengers aren't your bag, offer better bang per buck than a Caterfield.
Mine is tracked fairly heavily and if you have a look in the members cars section you'll see that I'm up there with the Trevors in the cost/mile stakes (I blew my engine at Donington). However they are FAAAAR more fun than anything else on track.
Personally I'm not convinced by BEC's but each to their own. What about a Formula Ford Zetec or a Formula Vauxhall/Lotus? Can be had for peanuts and as long as gooning & passengers aren't your bag, offer better bang per buck than a Caterfield.
quote:James, I think it's down to the track, as there is no real straight long enough to cool the brakes down. It doesn't help that Willie has lowered suspension, which cuts down the air getting to the brakes. I also find Knockhill very hard on the tyres although I haven't had a problem with the brakes (I do need to do a cooling lap every 3 laps though)
I've never known anybody go through brake discs as quickly as you. I did loads of track days in my Cerbie, and the discs lasted 40,000 miles. I used to go through a set of pads in 1-2 track days, but tyres used to last me 6,000 miles between road and track use.
Maybe you should invest some cash in getting an instructor to sit beside you and tell you why you're being so hard on your car
James
quote:No thanks - I don't think I need to know the awful truth.
Now do the same sum, with the same "fully absorbed costing" logic with your Cerbera, but don't forget to sit down with a nice stiff drink first Jeremy!
I kind of started down this path on another thread illustrating what good value it is to pay to use someone elses car for the day (specifically the TopCats Racing Tuscan
).I think the problem comes when you try "fully absorbed costing". You need to compare the cost of the TopCats day with what else you could get for the money - that was my argument, and it then becomes more about the incremental cost where depreciation etc isn't really an issue unless depreciation is directly related to a specific track day which I seriously doubt unless you are doing acrobatics with it.
Thanks for the info. I'm keen to keep the Cerbera, but track days are just way too expensive. It certainly looks like there are far cheaper options, especially if brake/tyre wear is 'insignificant'. I'll have to do some more maths to see if I can justify another toy to the missus.
I'm leaning towards something bike engined possibly, if I do anything at all. I'm told 'molded slicks' are a fairly cheap way of getting grippy tyres for track day use on Westfields. Is this true - if so how much/how long do they last/how much worse than 'real' tyres. Also, I've seen BECs with solid [ie non vented] disks and single piston calipers. Are these a serious proposition for heavy track day use?
Thanks
WB
I'm leaning towards something bike engined possibly, if I do anything at all. I'm told 'molded slicks' are a fairly cheap way of getting grippy tyres for track day use on Westfields. Is this true - if so how much/how long do they last/how much worse than 'real' tyres. Also, I've seen BECs with solid [ie non vented] disks and single piston calipers. Are these a serious proposition for heavy track day use?
Thanks
WB
Have you seen the costs for a wee shotty in the Topcats car? It puts even the Cerbie running costs to shame...not surprisingly. I'm trying to reduce costs for track day hurls, not increase them. However, if someone would like to contribute financially to a session on my behalf, I'd me more than happy make sure their money was well spent
Anyway, I thought you were meant to be saving your pennies for a forthcoming event, not squandering them on pointless things like cars and the like
WB
Anyway, I thought you were meant to be saving your pennies for a forthcoming event, not squandering them on pointless things like cars and the like
WB
Yep juansolo,
My Bike-Engined-Car (BEC) has that configuration and you even have to make sure the brakes have a little heat into them on the out lap - never had ANY brake fade and no noticable wear on the pads either - thats what comes with having a car weigh 450kg's even with +300bhp/tonne.
My Bike-Engined-Car (BEC) has that configuration and you even have to make sure the brakes have a little heat into them on the out lap - never had ANY brake fade and no noticable wear on the pads either - thats what comes with having a car weigh 450kg's even with +300bhp/tonne.
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff