Track Car Dilemma
Discussion
Hi all,
I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
PaulyW said:
Hi all,
I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
A genuine question here ... what is the point of your MINI and its modifications, if not to make it a better car out on track? It feels a little like owning a racehorse, but only allowing it to trot round a paddock in case something happens to it while flat out.I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
Whilst I obviously know nothing about you and your circumstances, I can imagine a situation where if you were to buy a "lesser" car to use on track (and I assume it would be lesser, otherwise it'd surely be your new P&J?) you'd be wondering if you could have had more fun in the "better" car.
In the past I've always had a daily and a 'fun' car, but recently jogged them both on for a 986 Boxster S ... which had its first track outing at a very wet Mallory Park in November. Whilst there was a certain amount of "I need this to get to work on Monday" in my mind, I had a great day and didn't find that the tiny extra reserve of caution I had spoilt my enjoyment at all.
Have you looked into Track Insurance (either as part of your regular road policy, or as standalone cover)? That could be a way of having your cake and eating it ... enjoying your car out on track, while having the peace of mind that comes from knowing it's all covered if the very worst were to happen.
As for 'abusing' it on track, it's a car that's designed to be driven ... so drive it.
All driving on track does is accelerate wear. So 80 miles on a trackday might put 800 miles worth of wear on the car - but if you wouldn't be worried taking your car on an 800 mile roadtrip, then why should you worry about the abuse from a trackday? Obviously the 80 and 800 mile numbers are made up to illustrate the point ... but if you'd be happy driving your car for X number of miles on the road, why wouldn't you be happy driving it for an equivalent number of miles worth of wear on the track? Think of it as having a roadtrip's worth of fun out of the car, but with only a return trip to the next town's worth of miles added to the odometer! 
Modifying a car for road use (including 'fast road' use) and modifying a car for dedicated track use are two very different things. In the OP's position I went and bought a cheap RX8 and turned it into a dedicated track car - it'll get round a track very nicely thankyouverymuch but I've driven it on the road a few times in track spec and it's bloody awful 
If you're going to start doing lots of track days get something cheap you can thrash the nuts off without worrying. Obviously that's assuming you have space, funds etc to have a dedicated track toy, but your Mini will be compromised as a road car and, as your P&J, you'll be gutted if you bin it.
If you're going to start doing lots of track days get something cheap you can thrash the nuts off without worrying. Obviously that's assuming you have space, funds etc to have a dedicated track toy, but your Mini will be compromised as a road car and, as your P&J, you'll be gutted if you bin it.
seiben said:
Modifying a car for road use (including 'fast road' use) and modifying a car for dedicated track use are two very different things. In the OP's position I went and bought a cheap RX8 and turned it into a dedicated track car - it'll get round a track very nicely thankyouverymuch but I've driven it on the road a few times in track spec and it's bloody awful
...
Funnily enough (and given away by my user name), my previous 'fun' cars were RX8s. But the laughable fuel economy and questionable reliability eventually drove me away from them. They do go round a track much better than they have any right to ... a very well engineered car from that point of view....
While MINIs aren't my cup of tea, this appears to be the most track focused variant (apologies if I'm wrong in that) of one ... which appears to have then been further modified to make it more track biased - obviously, "coilovers" covers a broad church ... from just-for-looks Ebay no-name cheapies through to properly engineered performance enhancers ... but my assumption would be that they've been purchased to make the car go round corners quicker. Hence my question about its purpose.
Use the Mini, see how you get on. Get insurance from somewhere like Moris (who will do an agreed value and not mess you around if you need to claim) or get some track cover bundled in to your road insurance.
If you reach the point where you're doing 10 a year and the Mini is getting expensive to maintain then look at getting something else to use.
I've flipped between having a track car plus a daily or a single more expensive car that can do both and for me the latter option made more sense, only doing 4/5 days a year having an additional car was too much hassle.
If you reach the point where you're doing 10 a year and the Mini is getting expensive to maintain then look at getting something else to use.
I've flipped between having a track car plus a daily or a single more expensive car that can do both and for me the latter option made more sense, only doing 4/5 days a year having an additional car was too much hassle.
Yeh some valid points there. I may do a track day in the mini and see how things go. Its such a tidy low mileage car but then on the flip side I do thrash it on the road as well.
Its only a weekend car as well. Its got all the right parts on it, even MeisterR coilovers (no cheap stance crap)
Its only a weekend car as well. Its got all the right parts on it, even MeisterR coilovers (no cheap stance crap)
all the above posts are valid. but it's not always logical, often emotional.
take the Mini on a track day to see how it feels. i recommend a weekday one to avoid not only crowds but more aggressive behaviour. fast road driving is nothing like track and you might feel your p&j is suffering too much going from sustained wot to v.heavy braking. it'll feel brutal if you pick up the pace. Personally i prefer a dedicated track car with bucket seats, firm suspension the lot. very uncomfortable but so much more fun on track.
i drove a Mini GP on track a few weeks ago. it went well but the seats were useless at track speeds.
someone posted above that a second car might be less capable than your modded Mini. That's not necessarily relevant imo. Track driving is about fun, learning and being a good driver. an old mx5 would be slow but heaps of fun.
Then, once you've caught the track bug, you go modding again anyway....
take the Mini on a track day to see how it feels. i recommend a weekday one to avoid not only crowds but more aggressive behaviour. fast road driving is nothing like track and you might feel your p&j is suffering too much going from sustained wot to v.heavy braking. it'll feel brutal if you pick up the pace. Personally i prefer a dedicated track car with bucket seats, firm suspension the lot. very uncomfortable but so much more fun on track.
i drove a Mini GP on track a few weeks ago. it went well but the seats were useless at track speeds.
someone posted above that a second car might be less capable than your modded Mini. That's not necessarily relevant imo. Track driving is about fun, learning and being a good driver. an old mx5 would be slow but heaps of fun.
Then, once you've caught the track bug, you go modding again anyway....
I had an R56 MCS which we upgraded with KWs, exhaust decat and remap etc. We also uprated the tyres, brake pads and fluid for fast road/track use and added some bucket seats etc. - changing the seats, tyres, brake pads & fluids were the most important things for occasional track days & the seats are lighter than the original ones. I found the Mini quite inspiring to start my track day habit in though you’ll need to change the oil a lot more regularly. I’ve now moved on to a cheap 325ti as a joint track car with a friend. 
Nothing beats having a cheap track day car that is inexpensive and readily available to replace.
My old 240Z while nothing to look at is driven hard on track and does a respectable job. However at this point in time if I stuff it, will be an expensive and difficult jod to replace
350Z's are readily available highly modifiable, cheap, and quick.
It is going to be my track car of choice
My old 240Z while nothing to look at is driven hard on track and does a respectable job. However at this point in time if I stuff it, will be an expensive and difficult jod to replace
350Z's are readily available highly modifiable, cheap, and quick.
It is going to be my track car of choice
rjracin240 said:
Nothing beats having a cheap track day car that is inexpensive and readily available to replace.
I strongly disagree. There are very few crashes or write-offs on track days but there would be even fewer (and driving standards would in general be higher) if there were no drivers on track with the attitude that if they bin their cheap track shed, oh well, that's too bad, I'll go get another one.To the OP, if you haven't done track days before, or unless you are certain to do 6+ days per year for example, you would be crazy to go buy another car. And as others have said, you'll spend your time wondering what the day would be like in your Mini.
Linking back to my first point, if you use your Mini it will naturally make you more cautious, which is a good thing - gradually build up pace, learning how to balance the car properly under braking and turn-in. Let's face it, braking too late and too much corner speed at turn-in are the only ways you will crash a FWD car on your own.
It takes time to get a feel for how a car behaves as you get closer and closer to the limits on a given track. Enjoy that process and you will be a better driver and everyone on track will be safer (and enjoying themselves!!).
Not sure your experience OP, but maybe spend a day with Car Limits and get a feel of your Mini at/over the limit, before deciding?
https://www.carlimits.com/
https://www.carlimits.com/
braddo said:
I strongly disagree. There are very few crashes or write-offs on track days but there would be even fewer (and driving standards would in general be higher) if there were no drivers on track with the attitude that if they bin their cheap track shed, oh well, that's too bad, I'll go get another one.
^^^ Absolutely. It's why I tend to avoid the pile-em-high, sell 'em cheap TDOs whose days are often full of people who don't give a s
t and will happily bin it trying to prove their cheap snotter is the faster than everything else. OP, maybe see if you can find a marque enthusiast or owner's club day?Rotary Potato said:
PaulyW said:
Hi all,
I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
A genuine question here ... what is the point of your MINI and its modifications, if not to make it a better car out on track? It feels a little like owning a racehorse, but only allowing it to trot round a paddock in case something happens to it while flat out.I currently own a modified 2013 Mini JCW (Coilovers, stage 2 map etc). Looking into doing track days next year with a ring trip as well, but I’m in 2 minds weather to use the mini or buy an EP3 for track use.
The mini isn’t my daily but it’s my pride and joy and therefore reluctant to abuse it on the track and also having the fear of binning it.
I’m just thinking of the money I have tied up in the mini and would be gutted if anything was to happen to it.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Am I being over cautious?
Cheers
Whilst I obviously know nothing about you and your circumstances, I can imagine a situation where if you were to buy a "lesser" car to use on track (and I assume it would be lesser, otherwise it'd surely be your new P&J?) you'd be wondering if you could have had more fun in the "better" car.
In the past I've always had a daily and a 'fun' car, but recently jogged them both on for a 986 Boxster S ... which had its first track outing at a very wet Mallory Park in November. Whilst there was a certain amount of "I need this to get to work on Monday" in my mind, I had a great day and didn't find that the tiny extra reserve of caution I had spoilt my enjoyment at all.
Have you looked into Track Insurance (either as part of your regular road policy, or as standalone cover)? That could be a way of having your cake and eating it ... enjoying your car out on track, while having the peace of mind that comes from knowing it's all covered if the very worst were to happen.
As for 'abusing' it on track, it's a car that's designed to be driven ... so drive it.
All driving on track does is accelerate wear. So 80 miles on a trackday might put 800 miles worth of wear on the car - but if you wouldn't be worried taking your car on an 800 mile roadtrip, then why should you worry about the abuse from a trackday? Obviously the 80 and 800 mile numbers are made up to illustrate the point ... but if you'd be happy driving your car for X number of miles on the road, why wouldn't you be happy driving it for an equivalent number of miles worth of wear on the track? Think of it as having a roadtrip's worth of fun out of the car, but with only a return trip to the next town's worth of miles added to the odometer! Rotary Potato said:
A genuine question here ... what is the point of your MINI and its modifications, if not to make it a better car out on track? It feels a little like owning a racehorse, but only allowing it to trot round a paddock in case something happens to it while flat out.
Whilst I obviously know nothing about you and your circumstances, I can imagine a situation where if you were to buy a "lesser" car to use on track (and I assume it would be lesser, otherwise it'd surely be your new P&J?) you'd be wondering if you could have had more fun in the "better" car.
In the past I've always had a daily and a 'fun' car, but recently jogged them both on for a 986 Boxster S ... which had its first track outing at a very wet Mallory Park in November. Whilst there was a certain amount of "I need this to get to work on Monday" in my mind, I had a great day and didn't find that the tiny extra reserve of caution I had spoilt my enjoyment at all.
Have you looked into Track Insurance (either as part of your regular road policy, or as standalone cover)? That could be a way of having your cake and eating it ... enjoying your car out on track, while having the peace of mind that comes from knowing it's all covered if the very worst were to happen.
As for 'abusing' it on track, it's a car that's designed to be driven ... so drive it. All driving on track does is accelerate wear. So 80 miles on a trackday might put 800 miles worth of wear on the car - but if you wouldn't be worried taking your car on an 800 mile roadtrip, then why should you worry about the abuse from a trackday? Obviously the 80 and 800 mile numbers are made up to illustrate the point ... but if you'd be happy driving your car for X number of miles on the road, why wouldn't you be happy driving it for an equivalent number of miles worth of wear on the track? Think of it as having a roadtrip's worth of fun out of the car, but with only a return trip to the next town's worth of miles added to the odometer!
brilliant answer best thing ive read on here for agesWhilst I obviously know nothing about you and your circumstances, I can imagine a situation where if you were to buy a "lesser" car to use on track (and I assume it would be lesser, otherwise it'd surely be your new P&J?) you'd be wondering if you could have had more fun in the "better" car.
In the past I've always had a daily and a 'fun' car, but recently jogged them both on for a 986 Boxster S ... which had its first track outing at a very wet Mallory Park in November. Whilst there was a certain amount of "I need this to get to work on Monday" in my mind, I had a great day and didn't find that the tiny extra reserve of caution I had spoilt my enjoyment at all.
Have you looked into Track Insurance (either as part of your regular road policy, or as standalone cover)? That could be a way of having your cake and eating it ... enjoying your car out on track, while having the peace of mind that comes from knowing it's all covered if the very worst were to happen.
As for 'abusing' it on track, it's a car that's designed to be driven ... so drive it.
All driving on track does is accelerate wear. So 80 miles on a trackday might put 800 miles worth of wear on the car - but if you wouldn't be worried taking your car on an 800 mile roadtrip, then why should you worry about the abuse from a trackday? Obviously the 80 and 800 mile numbers are made up to illustrate the point ... but if you'd be happy driving your car for X number of miles on the road, why wouldn't you be happy driving it for an equivalent number of miles worth of wear on the track? Think of it as having a roadtrip's worth of fun out of the car, but with only a return trip to the next town's worth of miles added to the odometer! That is a good post.
My 2p: your p&j is your p&j. Doesn’t matter how much it cost if there are thoughts distracting from your driving/focus on track.
I hate driving my elise on trackdays as i just don’t want anything to happen to it. Put me in the same value race / track only car and I don’t have the same problem. I’m fine with radicals and gt cars diving past on an apex or having a fag paper gap bumper to bumper, just not in the car that I’ve got an emotional attachment to.
My 2p: your p&j is your p&j. Doesn’t matter how much it cost if there are thoughts distracting from your driving/focus on track.
I hate driving my elise on trackdays as i just don’t want anything to happen to it. Put me in the same value race / track only car and I don’t have the same problem. I’m fine with radicals and gt cars diving past on an apex or having a fag paper gap bumper to bumper, just not in the car that I’ve got an emotional attachment to.
If it were me I'd go for something rear wheel drive. I drove a PalmerSport Nissan 350Z at Bedford Autodrome a few years ago and it was quite brilliant fun, being wonderfully throttle adjustable. Another car which really appeals to me is a Mazda MX5 Mk3 gen II. While it might not have the "chest wig" appeal of the big Z, just look at where the tuning firm BBR can take it..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7HgtS50ro
Either of these should complement your front wheel drive Mini nicely, but then again there is the strong argument of just running the one car for both road and track. It's certainly cheaper! It really depends on the depths of your pockets and just how many track days you plan to do...
Either of these should complement your front wheel drive Mini nicely, but then again there is the strong argument of just running the one car for both road and track. It's certainly cheaper! It really depends on the depths of your pockets and just how many track days you plan to do...
Edited by baronbennyt on Monday 30th December 17:12
Lovely looking car OP! I can appreciate your dilemma, I done a couple of track days in my old Fabia that'd I'd spent a few quid on, there was always a little thought in the back of my head that I'd be upset if I binned it. The same with my current daily, while it's much quicker than my track car I'd use it for that. I took one very steady lap around the 'ring and that was scary enough!
I went down roue of getting a track car a while back, once I was set on doing more of them. It's not overly quick, flashy or even that capable at the moment but it's a riot on the track. It's more enjoyable when you're thrashing a car that you're not so worried about, both reliability and making a mistake. That's not a reflection of my attitude or driving on track, I always give other cars a wide berth and I still leave a bit on the table so to speak, but it's nice knowing if I find the limit and end up off the black stuff the stone chips won't make me cry too much, same if someone else gets a bit carried away and t bones me!
If you're yet to do a track day then I'd perhaps do an evening session or something to see if you like it first, then go from there. It'd be a bit step either laying out for a second car or selling yours before deciding you actually like it enough first.
I went down roue of getting a track car a while back, once I was set on doing more of them. It's not overly quick, flashy or even that capable at the moment but it's a riot on the track. It's more enjoyable when you're thrashing a car that you're not so worried about, both reliability and making a mistake. That's not a reflection of my attitude or driving on track, I always give other cars a wide berth and I still leave a bit on the table so to speak, but it's nice knowing if I find the limit and end up off the black stuff the stone chips won't make me cry too much, same if someone else gets a bit carried away and t bones me!
If you're yet to do a track day then I'd perhaps do an evening session or something to see if you like it first, then go from there. It'd be a bit step either laying out for a second car or selling yours before deciding you actually like it enough first.
If you have the budget for the tax, insurance, etc then I would just buy another car
Plenty of cars for sub 2k, even sub 1k, that you can pick up to track.
If you bin it then youve only lost 1-2k
if you need the money back you sell the track car
Thats what I did, ended up enjoying my track car on the road more than my daily! :P
Plenty of cars for sub 2k, even sub 1k, that you can pick up to track.
If you bin it then youve only lost 1-2k
if you need the money back you sell the track car
Thats what I did, ended up enjoying my track car on the road more than my daily!
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