Track day beginner, couple of questions
Discussion
Hi all, looking to take my fiesta st on a track day/evening but i keep putting it off because i've never done it before and there's a couple of things worrying me.
First is insurance, after reading around i cant seem to get a decisive answer as to whether this is essential. Some people say crashes are rare and its a waste of money, but for a beginner like me is it a must have?
Second, tyres. My current tyres are almost ready for a change. Should i get a track day in sharpish and use the old ones (a work colleague even commented i could keep them as track only slick tyres?) before spending a fair bit of money on new tyres. I'm a bit worried if i purchased new tyres i would immediately wreck them on track.
Third, brakes. Similarly to tyres, i'll probably be due some new brake pads on the next mot. Should i wait till after a track day? Or does a track day require a pristine set of pads? Will i go through a set in one day?
Apologies if these questions have been asked before but i havent found the answers im looking for.
Cheers
First is insurance, after reading around i cant seem to get a decisive answer as to whether this is essential. Some people say crashes are rare and its a waste of money, but for a beginner like me is it a must have?
Second, tyres. My current tyres are almost ready for a change. Should i get a track day in sharpish and use the old ones (a work colleague even commented i could keep them as track only slick tyres?) before spending a fair bit of money on new tyres. I'm a bit worried if i purchased new tyres i would immediately wreck them on track.
Third, brakes. Similarly to tyres, i'll probably be due some new brake pads on the next mot. Should i wait till after a track day? Or does a track day require a pristine set of pads? Will i go through a set in one day?
Apologies if these questions have been asked before but i havent found the answers im looking for.
Cheers
Good starting point, a good set of questions so here goes.
2. New tyre WILL wear a lot quicker on track due to extremes of temperature build up doing laps. Personally if you think you may enjoy it, I would get a cheap ebay set of wheels & put top quality part worn tyres on to use just for track days keeping them separate from your road tyres, but then in your position it would probably be best to try a TD on what you have first before investing more.
3. MINIMUM do a full brake fluid bleed to get fresh good quality brake fluid in before the day and fit a full set of brand new good quality pads all round & have a spare set of fronts and enough tools to change them on the day. You will regret it if you get caught up in the moment & then realise you are down to the backing plates for the drive home! As it is not unheard of to go through a full set of fronts in a normal track day.
All of the above will be helped if you stick to short runs of just 3/4 laps at a time & religiously check them all each time in the pits.
Hatethisbit said:
First is insurance, after reading around i cant seem to get a decisive answer as to whether this is essential. Some people say crashes are rare and its a waste of money, but for a beginner like me is it a must have?
Second, tyres. My current tyres are almost ready for a change. Should i get a track day in sharpish and use the old ones (a work colleague even commented i could keep them as track only slick tyres?) before spending a fair bit of money on new tyres. I'm a bit worried if i purchased new tyres i would immediately wreck them on track.
Third, brakes. Similarly to tyres, i'll probably be due some new brake pads on the next mot. Should i wait till after a track day? Or does a track day require a pristine set of pads? Will i go through a set in one day?
1. It is NOT essential. Having said that the actual answer from your viewpoint will be helped by the additional question. How easy would it be to do without the car if you bin it? TD insurance is likely under £100/day (depending on car value) and is ONLY FIRST PARTY, so doesn't cover anyone else if you hit them and will likely have an excess of 10% of car value. Now ask yourself again is it worth it?Second, tyres. My current tyres are almost ready for a change. Should i get a track day in sharpish and use the old ones (a work colleague even commented i could keep them as track only slick tyres?) before spending a fair bit of money on new tyres. I'm a bit worried if i purchased new tyres i would immediately wreck them on track.
Third, brakes. Similarly to tyres, i'll probably be due some new brake pads on the next mot. Should i wait till after a track day? Or does a track day require a pristine set of pads? Will i go through a set in one day?
2. New tyre WILL wear a lot quicker on track due to extremes of temperature build up doing laps. Personally if you think you may enjoy it, I would get a cheap ebay set of wheels & put top quality part worn tyres on to use just for track days keeping them separate from your road tyres, but then in your position it would probably be best to try a TD on what you have first before investing more.
3. MINIMUM do a full brake fluid bleed to get fresh good quality brake fluid in before the day and fit a full set of brand new good quality pads all round & have a spare set of fronts and enough tools to change them on the day. You will regret it if you get caught up in the moment & then realise you are down to the backing plates for the drive home! As it is not unheard of to go through a full set of fronts in a normal track day.
All of the above will be helped if you stick to short runs of just 3/4 laps at a time & religiously check them all each time in the pits.
Make sure your brakes aren't on their last legs - last thing you want is for them to wear out during the day.
Using old tyres is fine. Make sure they're legal for the drive there, and importantly, back (and hope it's not wet).
Insurance is up to you. If your car is damaged you will be responsible. Track cover can be cheap if included with your insurance (not much more than a mainstream insurer) but more expensive if bought for a single event. It will usually have an excess of 10% the value of your car or £1000 whichever is highest in either case.
When is your insurance due? If you're concerned, renew with track day cover included and book your first day in the spring or summer when it's less likely to rain.
Most importantly - get a recommendation for a good TDO. That will be the biggest factor affecting your enjoyment of the day (along with the weather).
I'm sure you'll love it by the way
Using old tyres is fine. Make sure they're legal for the drive there, and importantly, back (and hope it's not wet).
Insurance is up to you. If your car is damaged you will be responsible. Track cover can be cheap if included with your insurance (not much more than a mainstream insurer) but more expensive if bought for a single event. It will usually have an excess of 10% the value of your car or £1000 whichever is highest in either case.
When is your insurance due? If you're concerned, renew with track day cover included and book your first day in the spring or summer when it's less likely to rain.
Most importantly - get a recommendation for a good TDO. That will be the biggest factor affecting your enjoyment of the day (along with the weather).
I'm sure you'll love it by the way
Edited by Gulf7 on Monday 30th September 18:02
Thanks for the replies guys. What's a TDO? My insurance isn't due till Jan....maybe I should wait till then and look for something with track day cover, seems a long way away though! I'm fortunate enough to live just a few miles away from snetterton circuit so could limp home if worst came to worst.
I like the idea of having separate wheels down the line, in the meantime just how much do tyres wear, can you ruin brand new ones in a single day? I would definitely be taking it steady on my first go and would probably start off doing one of the evening sessions.
I like the idea of having separate wheels down the line, in the meantime just how much do tyres wear, can you ruin brand new ones in a single day? I would definitely be taking it steady on my first go and would probably start off doing one of the evening sessions.
Hatethisbit said:
Thanks for the replies guys. What's a TDO? My insurance isn't due till Jan....maybe I should wait till then and look for something with track day cover, seems a long way away though! I'm fortunate enough to live just a few miles away from snetterton circuit so could limp home if worst came to worst.
I like the idea of having separate wheels down the line, in the meantime just how much do tyres wear, can you ruin brand new ones in a single day? I would definitely be taking it steady on my first go and would probably start off doing one of the evening sessions.
TDO = Track Day Organiser I like the idea of having separate wheels down the line, in the meantime just how much do tyres wear, can you ruin brand new ones in a single day? I would definitely be taking it steady on my first go and would probably start off doing one of the evening sessions.
I've done 3 days in my BMW and the tyres are still fine, I'd rather a set of new tyres than trying to nurse old ones tbh, same with brakes.
I've not done Snet yet but it gets good reviews, the evening stuff is only during summer so you'd have to wait till then anyway for that. Personally I'd go for a cheap day when it comes up at a nice track and go for that. Sometimes you can get a day for little more than £100, you take a chance with the weather but then we do that all year round in the UK!
Take it steady, you don't need to go balls out straightaway, build it up slowly and enjoy it. Might be worth getting a bit of tuition, it's normally cheap enough.
Hatethisbit said:
I like the idea of having separate wheels down the line, in the meantime just how much do tyres wear, can you ruin brand new ones in a single day? I would definitely be taking it steady on my first go and would probably start off doing one of the evening sessions.
New tyres will have deep tread which could overheat* and get damaged. Ok if you pootle about but it is dependent on how hard you corner.- possibly less likely in the current weather
Edited by Oilchange on Tuesday 1st October 06:50
Yes I second the suggestion of tuition.
My track day experience has so far been with Lotus on Track (Castle Combe, Silverstone GP, Brands Hatch GP and Goodwood circuits). They provide instructors and its overtaking by consent only. All very civilised. I've always had insurance and usually pay for one instructor session too - there's plenty to learn, especially on new circuits.
As you can see, despite owning a Fiesta ST too, my track experience has been in a very different car, so I'm not really in a position to advise on brake or tyre wear.
My track day experience has so far been with Lotus on Track (Castle Combe, Silverstone GP, Brands Hatch GP and Goodwood circuits). They provide instructors and its overtaking by consent only. All very civilised. I've always had insurance and usually pay for one instructor session too - there's plenty to learn, especially on new circuits.
As you can see, despite owning a Fiesta ST too, my track experience has been in a very different car, so I'm not really in a position to advise on brake or tyre wear.
Tyres, weight of car, pads, discs, car power, car chassis, circuit etc. Too broad a range of variables to say anything meaningful at this point.
One thing I will say though, insurance is a must if you're tracking something you'd struggle to replace / fix on your own funds. Even if you think you're too good to crash, you can still crash or be crashed into. Don't buy the cheapest either. Buy from a reputable outfit.
One thing I will say though, insurance is a must if you're tracking something you'd struggle to replace / fix on your own funds. Even if you think you're too good to crash, you can still crash or be crashed into. Don't buy the cheapest either. Buy from a reputable outfit.
OP. Look at Snet 15/11 with Javelin. I'll be there with a couple of friends including one of them in a Fiesta ST. £109 is not too bad either.
As Hustle said, you need to know how much pad material you have left, should be easy to check through the alloys or just take a wheel off. Thin pads are not a good idea as the wear becomes exponential due to poor heat dissipation through the pad.
New tyres not a particularly good ideal as the blocks move a lot and overheat. What have you got now and how much thread. The ideal would be around 5mm. Look at second hand perhaps for the day, maybe just the fronts.
Look at Moris for an insurance quote.
Tuition with Javelin is cheap and is probably a must early in the day unless you know someone who can tell you the basics.
As Hustle said, you need to know how much pad material you have left, should be easy to check through the alloys or just take a wheel off. Thin pads are not a good idea as the wear becomes exponential due to poor heat dissipation through the pad.
New tyres not a particularly good ideal as the blocks move a lot and overheat. What have you got now and how much thread. The ideal would be around 5mm. Look at second hand perhaps for the day, maybe just the fronts.
Look at Moris for an insurance quote.
Tuition with Javelin is cheap and is probably a must early in the day unless you know someone who can tell you the basics.
Photo's of front tyres (rears are the same) and brake pads, sorry for poor quality it just started bucketing it down again as i got my phone out!
Tyres are bridgestone potenza's, pads have been on the car since i purchased it in jan so im afraid i couldnt say what brand they are.
Thank you for the suggestion for the Javelin day, i'll look into that. Definitely considering some tuition as i do not consider myself a driving god and believe i barely tap into the potential of the car. Seems like insurance is a sensible idea too.
Difficult to say but that looks like 6 or 7mm of pad material, that should be OK particularly on a first track day. You'll need to cool them regularly though and do short session with the last lap without braking if possible and safe.
Not sure on those tyres, looks like 3 or 4mm. I can see cracking on the shoulder too. How old are they? There should be a date stamp, usually o Al with 4 digits indicating year and week, for instance 5216. Last week of 2016.
Not sure on those tyres, looks like 3 or 4mm. I can see cracking on the shoulder too. How old are they? There should be a date stamp, usually o Al with 4 digits indicating year and week, for instance 5216. Last week of 2016.
I am sure that the pads will be fine.
The tyres are ripe for killing off. They aren’t going to give you any protection from aquaplaning though. You are going to need to keep an eye on those so that you have tread to drive home on.
If it was a full day you’d run out of tyre. For your first exploratory half day / evening I reckon you’ll be fine.
The tyres are ripe for killing off. They aren’t going to give you any protection from aquaplaning though. You are going to need to keep an eye on those so that you have tread to drive home on.
If it was a full day you’d run out of tyre. For your first exploratory half day / evening I reckon you’ll be fine.
HustleRussell said:
I am sure that the pads will be fine.
The tyres are ripe for killing off. They aren’t going to give you any protection from aquaplaning though. You are going to need to keep an eye on those so that you have tread to drive home on.
If it was a full day you’d run out of tyre. For your first exploratory half day / evening I reckon you’ll be fine.
Pretty much this. Have fun, but do be cautious if it’s not dryThe tyres are ripe for killing off. They aren’t going to give you any protection from aquaplaning though. You are going to need to keep an eye on those so that you have tread to drive home on.
If it was a full day you’d run out of tyre. For your first exploratory half day / evening I reckon you’ll be fine.
I personally would still fit fresh pads & fresh fluid & take a spare set of fronts with tools to change, running out of brakes on track is no fun, it has happened to me twice for different reasons.
Conversely the tyres are likely to be fine but keep a close eye on any accelerated wear that may shorten your day & keep on top of the raise in pressure with the additional heat in the tyres on track.
Also be prepared to swap front to rear if they do start to wear quickly.
Conversely the tyres are likely to be fine but keep a close eye on any accelerated wear that may shorten your day & keep on top of the raise in pressure with the additional heat in the tyres on track.
Also be prepared to swap front to rear if they do start to wear quickly.
Edited by E-bmw on Wednesday 2nd October 13:39
Personally I wouldn't bother with insurance. Other drivers are generally respectful and only overtake on the straights + if it is your car you won't be giving it death at every corner so again unlikely to crash imho. If there are some t
ts out there driving like loons (Caterham drivers, yes you) then just stay off the track at the same time as them.
TX.
ts out there driving like loons (Caterham drivers, yes you) then just stay off the track at the same time as them.TX.
I don't think the insurance question should take into consideration the likelihood of a crash, instead you should just consider the worst case scenario - can you 'survive' if you write off your car on circuit? If not, grab the insurance.
Specialist insurers are really, really good but generally they seem limited to more "enthusiast" specific cars such as Lotus/Caterham/etc. They may exist for Fiestas, but not likely to be quite as common.
I get unlimited trackdays FoC included on my limited mileage specialist policy for my Exige for example. When I tracked an Impreza, the specialists didn't offer quite the same but I think Greenlight was probably my best "generic" policy that would bolt on trackdays for about £60 IIRC.... they would be worth looking into for the Fiesta ST. Really good with modifications too.
As for pads/tyres - do remember that you're only going to be on track for 10-15minute stints, so you've got plenty of time through the day to keep re-evaluating the state of your car. My first ever trackday I ran out of brakes in the sense that the fluid boiled and the pads just seemed to lose all ability to slow down the car, it was a waste of a day - but I was still able to get home safely after everything cooled down.
I've had one other trackday end prematurely due to brakes, I had a caliper seize up a bit so I trashed through a (brand new) brake pad on one side. It was annoying, but not the end of the world.
If you keep your sessions short, and cool the car down accordingly - a trackday doesn't have to be significantly more harmful than an enthusiastic road blast. If you get sucked into longer sessions, everything will just heat up to the point wear and tear starts to get exponential.
I would probably buy a spare set of front pads (easy to change at the circuit, and it's always good to have a set of "get me home" pads knocking around anyway) and go on your existing tyres. If it looks like heavy rain, or if your tyre wear is more aggressive than expected - then just go home early. Then, if you're anything like me - you'll spend a winter going wayyyy OTTT buying coilovers, semi slicks, spare wheels, etc - and come back with a massive addiction next spring that will cost you thousands over the next few years
Specialist insurers are really, really good but generally they seem limited to more "enthusiast" specific cars such as Lotus/Caterham/etc. They may exist for Fiestas, but not likely to be quite as common.
I get unlimited trackdays FoC included on my limited mileage specialist policy for my Exige for example. When I tracked an Impreza, the specialists didn't offer quite the same but I think Greenlight was probably my best "generic" policy that would bolt on trackdays for about £60 IIRC.... they would be worth looking into for the Fiesta ST. Really good with modifications too.
As for pads/tyres - do remember that you're only going to be on track for 10-15minute stints, so you've got plenty of time through the day to keep re-evaluating the state of your car. My first ever trackday I ran out of brakes in the sense that the fluid boiled and the pads just seemed to lose all ability to slow down the car, it was a waste of a day - but I was still able to get home safely after everything cooled down.
I've had one other trackday end prematurely due to brakes, I had a caliper seize up a bit so I trashed through a (brand new) brake pad on one side. It was annoying, but not the end of the world.
If you keep your sessions short, and cool the car down accordingly - a trackday doesn't have to be significantly more harmful than an enthusiastic road blast. If you get sucked into longer sessions, everything will just heat up to the point wear and tear starts to get exponential.
I would probably buy a spare set of front pads (easy to change at the circuit, and it's always good to have a set of "get me home" pads knocking around anyway) and go on your existing tyres. If it looks like heavy rain, or if your tyre wear is more aggressive than expected - then just go home early. Then, if you're anything like me - you'll spend a winter going wayyyy OTTT buying coilovers, semi slicks, spare wheels, etc - and come back with a massive addiction next spring that will cost you thousands over the next few years
Sounds like good advice all round , just take heed . Wouldn’t bother with insurance, mistakes usually happen when people are driving out of their comfort zone . Road tyres are at their best just before completely bksed . You’ve got to get home.
Short stints , 5 good laps is a days spirited driving
Check tyres, you can always stop
Let the car cool, heat is the killer to tyres and brakes
You’ll either be smitten or wonder what all the hype is about , never do it again and save a fortune
You can always chat to the other drivers, wealth of experience.
If you’re crap on your first session get tuition, I did about a life time ago
Odds are you’ll love it, post the outcome
ksed . You’ve got to get home.Short stints , 5 good laps is a days spirited driving
Check tyres, you can always stop
Let the car cool, heat is the killer to tyres and brakes
You’ll either be smitten or wonder what all the hype is about , never do it again and save a fortune
You can always chat to the other drivers, wealth of experience.
If you’re crap on your first session get tuition, I did about a life time ago
Odds are you’ll love it, post the outcome
Definitely change your brake fluid for something suitable, don't even bother going if you don't do this? Some braided.lines are a worthwhile buy too. Personally I wouldn't bother doing a trackday with those tyres, nothing to do with a thread but they are perishing and will be shredded in just a handful of laps.
If you do the track day it will quickly highlight the cars shortcomings which I expect will be tyres, brakes and suspension in that order.
If you do the track day it will quickly highlight the cars shortcomings which I expect will be tyres, brakes and suspension in that order.
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