Tyres Falling apart
Discussion
Hi
I did a track. day last month and after checking over the car the next day I was surprised at the condition of the Tyres, these where on the front of the car, and only 1 month old, the inner section of the Left wheel has started to disintegrate, I have used road tyres before on track without any problems so I'm a little miffed why this has happened? The Tyres are Avons ZZ5.
I did a track. day last month and after checking over the car the next day I was surprised at the condition of the Tyres, these where on the front of the car, and only 1 month old, the inner section of the Left wheel has started to disintegrate, I have used road tyres before on track without any problems so I'm a little miffed why this has happened? The Tyres are Avons ZZ5.
Tyres need to be heat cycled a few times to build up full strength. It's very easy to damage 'green' tyres by driving them too hard. Usually that shows up as excessive deflection, overheating and poor grip but I suppose it could lead to the sort of damage you show there.
If you find yourself in a similar situation in future it's worth making sure the tyres have been fully warmed up at least a couple of times before the track day.
If you don't expect to wear the tyres out completely, running part-worn tyres on the track and then replacing them afterwards would probably be a better strategy.
If you find yourself in a similar situation in future it's worth making sure the tyres have been fully warmed up at least a couple of times before the track day.
If you don't expect to wear the tyres out completely, running part-worn tyres on the track and then replacing them afterwards would probably be a better strategy.
GreenV8S said:
Tyres need to be heat cycled a few times to build up full strength. It's very easy to damage 'green' tyres by driving them too hard. Usually that shows up as excessive deflection, overheating and poor grip but I suppose it could lead to the sort of damage you show there.
If you find yourself in a similar situation in future it's worth making sure the tyres have been fully warmed up at least a couple of times before the track day.
If you don't expect to wear the tyres out completely, running part-worn tyres on the track and then replacing them afterwards would probably be a better strategy.
Since when do tyre's have to be heat cycled ?If you find yourself in a similar situation in future it's worth making sure the tyres have been fully warmed up at least a couple of times before the track day.
If you don't expect to wear the tyres out completely, running part-worn tyres on the track and then replacing them afterwards would probably be a better strategy.
I've never heard this before in m life
Wrong tyres for track, probably wrong tyre pressure too. Too much pressure probably looking at where the damage is.
You need some part worns or a dedicated track/road tyre. You can't expect something with a tall intricate pattern like that not to suffer under the duress of track work.
Most people have two sets of wheels and tyres.
You need some part worns or a dedicated track/road tyre. You can't expect something with a tall intricate pattern like that not to suffer under the duress of track work.
Most people have two sets of wheels and tyres.
Edited by 227bhp on Tuesday 27th August 11:51
Black Circles "impartial" tyre review describes Avon ZZ5s as "an ultra-high performance car tyre, for driving enthusiasts and high end sports cars owners.
Avon have implemented an Intelligent Asymmetric Tread Design for the ZZ5 to ensure a high end performance."
See: https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/avon/zz5
So how unsuitable is that for a track day? The comments about a tall tread may be right as the review goes on to say they are designed to work in the wet as well. And a track day will heat your tyres far more than road use. Did you check your pressures at any point, OP?
John
Avon have implemented an Intelligent Asymmetric Tread Design for the ZZ5 to ensure a high end performance."
See: https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/avon/zz5
So how unsuitable is that for a track day? The comments about a tall tread may be right as the review goes on to say they are designed to work in the wet as well. And a track day will heat your tyres far more than road use. Did you check your pressures at any point, OP?
John
Chris32345 said:
Since when do tyre's have to be heat cycled ?
I've never heard this before in m life
For as long as they've been made from rubber. Tyres that have not been fully cured are horrible to drive on track - they distort too much, get overheated and suffer far more wear than normal. I've never heard this before in m life
Basically what others have said already, but mangled tyres after a short stint on track points to one of three things:
1. Incorrect alignment
2. Incorrect pressures
3. Incorrect compound
Pt.3 is debatable, and probably depends on how hard you were pushing - but the ZZ5 isn't a dedicated track compound that can take loads of abuse.
Have you checked 1 & 2?
ETA: There's an outside chance that there's some kind of manufacturing defect, but I'd be making sure that the above were all discounted first (as they are more likely scenarios).
1. Incorrect alignment
2. Incorrect pressures
3. Incorrect compound
Pt.3 is debatable, and probably depends on how hard you were pushing - but the ZZ5 isn't a dedicated track compound that can take loads of abuse.
Have you checked 1 & 2?
ETA: There's an outside chance that there's some kind of manufacturing defect, but I'd be making sure that the above were all discounted first (as they are more likely scenarios).
Edited by C70R on Wednesday 28th August 11:16
tapkaJohnD said:
Black Circles "impartial" tyre review describes Avon ZZ5s as "an ultra-high performance car tyre, for driving enthusiasts and high end sports cars owners.
Avon have implemented an Intelligent Asymmetric Tread Design for the ZZ5 to ensure a high end performance."
See: https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/avon/zz5
So how unsuitable is that for a track day?
They aren't designed to cope with the heat & sustained abuse of use on a track simples!Avon have implemented an Intelligent Asymmetric Tread Design for the ZZ5 to ensure a high end performance."
See: https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/avon/zz5
So how unsuitable is that for a track day?
Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
E-bmw said:
They aren't designed to cope with the heat & sustained abuse of use on a track simples!
Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Lots of 'not quite truths' in there.Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Plenty of trackday tyres have more than 4mm of tread depth. Nankang NS2R (highly rated by many) has >7mm, for example.
On the Yellowstuff point, there's a chap on here (in Readers Cars) who is successfully campaigning an RX8 Sprint car with these fitted.
C70R said:
E-bmw said:
They aren't designed to cope with the heat & sustained abuse of use on a track simples!
Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Lots of 'not quite truths' in there.Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Plenty of trackday tyres have more than 4mm of tread depth. Nankang NS2R (highly rated by many) has >7mm, for example.
On the Yellowstuff point, there's a chap on here (in Readers Cars) who is successfully campaigning an RX8 Sprint car with these fitted.
2. I said "they GENERALLY have 4mm", generally means not always/all, and those that have more than 4mm are still using non-road compounds for want of a better phrase.
3. There is probably someone out there using normal road pads, I was generalising.
I'd be interested to know what car the OP was driving at the time. Also just how hard they were pushing.
I ran Bridgestone Potenza's on my VX for track days (they're the tyre the car is supposed to have) and they performed perfectly every time with only expected wear for probably over 10 track days. But then, even on track days I drove to my limits, not the cars, I'm far from being a driving God. They also had a pretty complex tread pattern.
I ran Bridgestone Potenza's on my VX for track days (they're the tyre the car is supposed to have) and they performed perfectly every time with only expected wear for probably over 10 track days. But then, even on track days I drove to my limits, not the cars, I'm far from being a driving God. They also had a pretty complex tread pattern.
E-bmw said:
C70R said:
E-bmw said:
They aren't designed to cope with the heat & sustained abuse of use on a track simples!
Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Lots of 'not quite truths' in there.Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Plenty of trackday tyres have more than 4mm of tread depth. Nankang NS2R (highly rated by many) has >7mm, for example.
On the Yellowstuff point, there's a chap on here (in Readers Cars) who is successfully campaigning an RX8 Sprint car with these fitted.
2. I said "they GENERALLY have 4mm", generally means not always/all, and those that have more than 4mm are still using non-road compounds for want of a better phrase.
3. There is probably someone out there using normal road pads, I was generalising.
HustleRussell said:
E-bmw said:
C70R said:
E-bmw said:
They aren't designed to cope with the heat & sustained abuse of use on a track simples!
Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Lots of 'not quite truths' in there.Like brake pads. Allegedly EBC yellow stuff are a fast road/track pad. Yet when used on track for more than a few laps they fall apart.
Buy basically any roar tyre & they have 8mm tread depth, buy a track tyre & they generally have 4mm, there is your first clue.
Plenty of trackday tyres have more than 4mm of tread depth. Nankang NS2R (highly rated by many) has >7mm, for example.
On the Yellowstuff point, there's a chap on here (in Readers Cars) who is successfully campaigning an RX8 Sprint car with these fitted.
2. I said "they GENERALLY have 4mm", generally means not always/all, and those that have more than 4mm are still using non-road compounds for want of a better phrase.
3. There is probably someone out there using normal road pads, I was generalising.
A quick Google search of a few popular road-legal track-special tyres and I couldn't find any with 4mm tread depth.
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