182 vs 197 vs 225 as a track car costs and comparisons

[Z4MCSL]

As the price of good 182s is creeping up I am starting to look are 197s and 225s as an alternative

Interested in the pros and cons

And costs as the 182 costs for parts and stuff looks very cheap

I'm expecting to keep car pretty standard as want to use occasionally but its not gonna be my daily

Any thoughts massively appreciated

[C70R]

Z4MCSL said:

As the price of good 182s is creeping up I am starting to look are 197s and 225s as an alternative

Interested in the pros and cons

And costs as the 182 costs for parts and stuff looks very cheap

I'm expecting to keep car pretty standard as want to use occasionally but its not gonna be my daily

Any thoughts massively appreciated

You can pick up a track-ready 182 (with literally everything major done) for less than £4k.

That's not true for either of the others.

[Z4MCSL]

I sort of dont want a fully track ready car as

1. I want to enjoy slowly improving the car (yes I know this is more expensive)
2. I want to occasionally use the car "in real life" to take 4 adults about

[E-bmw]

Just remember there are as many versions of "track ready" as there are track day enthusiasts out there.

Track ready doesn't have to mean stripped/caged/useless on the road.

I have a 240/250 bhp (awaiting remap to confirm) Mini Cooper S which looks 99% standard, but is VERY non-standard. If you didn't know what you were looking at you would think it was just a bit lower than standard.

[kaveney]

I am in the same boat with my fiesta ST .

It is stock looking and still fine for road use / driving to tracks .

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

E-bmw said:

Just remember there are as many versions of "track ready" as there are track day enthusiasts out there.

Track ready doesn't have to mean stripped/caged/useless on the road.

I have a 240/250 bhp (awaiting remap to confirm) Mini Cooper S which looks 99% standard, but is VERY non-standard. If you didn't know what you were looking at you would think it was just a bit lower than standard.

[Kev_Mk3]

182 - easy to fix, work on & get parts for within budget - great on track

197 - on road boring, cost more for everything over a 182 currently & not much more power over 182 for more weight

225 - turbo possibly leggy and possibly very prone to braking. Lad called performance only on instagram, Alex Bennett on facebook buys sells and breaks Renaults that suit what you want.


Go test drive them all in standard form this will help you 100% which way to go.

IMO you cant compare 182/197 - 225 as N/A to Turbo

[Smitters]

Interesting question. I just went 225 (well, 230 actually). What I can tell you is that if you're not going to be doing your own cambelts on an F4R engine, make sure it's been done recently...

[C70R]

OP, I'm going to answer you honestly here.

Given the number of threads you've started in the past month about this subject, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're being quite cautious.

Given that situation, I'd suggest you should be looking for as little risk as possible - IMHO, the answer is to go with the more low-tech, tried-and-tested route of the 182.

[Smitters]

Or buy my ZS... Costs less than a cambelt for a 230...

[Frimley111R]

Kev_Mk3 said:

225 - turbo possibly leggy and possibly very prone to braking. Lad called performance only on instagram, Alex Bennett on facebook buys sells and breaks Renaults that suit what you want.

Er what? 'Possibly very prone'. Turbos are fine and very tough if looked after. My car has 120k and doesn't use a drop of oil or smoke anywhere.

All these will be cheap to run. I'd say that the 225 or R26 gives you power too though. The Clios are fun to drive (as is the 225/R26 as they are not much bigger than the next gen Clio anyway) but will/may feel underpowered a bit. My R26 has a Stage 1 map to 270bhp which is all you need IMO.

[Kev_Mk3]

Frimley111R said:

Er what? 'Possibly very prone'. Turbos are fine and very tough if looked after. My car has 120k and doesn't use a drop of oil or smoke anywhere.

All these will be cheap to run. I'd say that the 225 or R26 gives you power too though. The Clios are fun to drive (as is the 225/R26 as they are not much bigger than the next gen Clio anyway) but will/may feel underpowered a bit. My R26 has a Stage 1 map to 270bhp which is all you need IMO.

Hence I put Possibly.................

[AmosMoses]

I have a 197 F1 (Cup Chassis and Recaros)

Only upgrades I have are engine mounts,brakes pads and i've lowered the seat. 5 trackdays in my 2 year ownership along with 10k road miles, I bloody love it!

Running costs are ok, only big bill I had was when the fuel pump and a few sensors died.

[Z4MCSL]

C70R

I guess I am being sort of cautious bit also as I've been looking at clios the budget for the base car seems to be shooting up....I must have looked at 10+ clios from 1.5 -3k and pretty much all of them have missing paperwork or mileage not adding up on MOTs or cat d or something that's putting me off so budget headsup over 3k...at which point I start thinking I may as well start with a 197 or 225/230..these latter cars also appeal to me more as a quasi-daily and you seem to get a lot more for the money....so if track costs arent going to be much more expensive they are tempting ?

[C70R]

Z4MCSL said:

C70R

I guess I am being sort of cautious bit also as I've been looking at clios the budget for the base car seems to be shooting up....I must have looked at 10+ clios from 1.5 -3k and pretty much all of them have missing paperwork or mileage not adding up on MOTs or cat d or something that's putting me off so budget headsup over 3k...at which point I start thinking I may as well start with a 197 or 225/230..these latter cars also appeal to me more as a quasi-daily and you seem to get a lot more for the money....so if track costs arent going to be much more expensive they are tempting ?

I feel like you're overthinking, and you're subsequently missing the point of a track car.

If you're going to eventually tear the thing to pieces and replace all of the important bits (as you previously said), why are you worried about lack of history or past insurance repairs?

Just buy a good, honest car. Then make a list of things to do, and work your way through it. I did this with my Mini - I bought a car with good spec that looked decent, and shipped it straight off to a specialist to replace anything that was suboptimal.

If you don't want one that someone has done already, why are you waiting for the perfect car just to tear it apart?

Edited by C70R on Monday 2nd September 14:46

[Fonzey]

Z4MCSL said:

so budget headsup over 3k...at which point I start thinking I may as well start with a 197 or 225/230.

That's called scope/budget creep. £3k is going to be a top-spec 182 or a bottom-rung 197. Obviously exclusions will apply, but generally you're talking about the strong end of one market and the weak end of another.

[E-bmw]

C70R said:

Z4MCSL said:

C70R

I guess I am being sort of cautious bit also as I've been looking at clios the budget for the base car seems to be shooting up....I must have looked at 10+ clios from 1.5 -3k and pretty much all of them have missing paperwork or mileage not adding up on MOTs or cat d or something that's putting me off so budget headsup over 3k...at which point I start thinking I may as well start with a 197 or 225/230..these latter cars also appeal to me more as a quasi-daily and you seem to get a lot more for the money....so if track costs arent going to be much more expensive they are tempting ?

I feel like you're overthinking, and you're subsequently missing the point of a track car.

If you're going to eventually tear the thing to pieces and replace all of the important bits (as you previously said), why are you worried about lack of history or past insurance repairs?

Just buy a good, honest car. Then make a list of things to do, and work your way through it. I did this with my Mini - I bought a car with good spec that looked decent.

Couldn't agree more, did pretty much the same myself apart from the shipping it off bit, I put it on stands & ripped it apart changing everything I didn't want myself for 6 months & learned what I could in the meantime.

[MrC986]

C70R said:

I feel like you're overthinking, and you're subsequently missing the point of a track car.

If you're going to eventually tear the thing to pieces and replace all of the important bits (as you previously said), why are you worried about lack of history or past insurance repairs?

I share ownership of 325ti M Sport bought for track days. We changed the suspension, tyres, brake pads/fluid & had a major service done plus added bucket seats when it arrived - it’s not mint, nor will it be if I can keep my OCD in check as that’s one of the reasons we decided on buying a car for not a lot!

I’ve bought a set of road wheels to prevent punctures on the way to/from any tracks though even if we added a half cage, that’s about all we’ll do. I’ve had people say “upgrade the brakes etc etc”, though with less than 200 bhp & being of solid German build quality with the insulation/carpets still in, we’ll never be fast on track. FYI, our current cost between 2 of us for the car/upgrades (excluding the seats) is about £2.25k.

FWIW, if you want a car to drive hard on track, I see those who generally spend less having more fun than those that spend much larger amounts on shinier kit that often goes faster into the gravel traps /low friction green areas which when broken cost so much more to fix

[Z4MCSL]

Thanks guys this is helpful. I definitely am overthinking it but I tend to do this whenever I buy a car. Its weird as if I have a much bigger and less certain business expense I tend to make a decision very quickly but with used cars I get too engrossed in the whatifs. I have even started making spreadsheets to look at the various pros and cons at different budget levels!?

I guess I like the idea of having a car that I also enjoy driving as a quasi daily so its trying to strike a balance between a st heap that I really wont care about damaging on track, vs a pristine example I would enjoy driving around town etc. Basically my head says go buy an half decent car with dents all over it that is therefore going at a good price, and my heart says, spend an extra £1000 and get one that looks nice and has a FSH etc etc

To be honest with the cheaper cars there are alot with small issues that I would assume will very quickly become bigger issues. Seen a few at £1500 that have the classic crunching in third/4th so thats a gearbox rebuild that is going to immediately increase the overal cost. Also trying to avoid getting a lemon.

At just under £3k I am looking at low mileage FSH mint cars that appear to have been looked after, low owners etc.

Anyway whatever happens I am going to have a car by the end of the month!

[Z4MCSL]

Also I have narrowed it down and decided definitely getting a 182, very possible a 172

[E-bmw]

Or maybe a 197...………