A car that works on both track and the road? (£40K)
Discussion
Is there a car that can do both fast road and track work and not be too compromised at either (and not cost a stupid amount of money and preferably be rear wheel drive)?
The only car I have ever been in which has managed this feat was a BMW E46 CSL. Everything else has been either too soft for the track or too compromised for the road.
Now I am sure a Porsche GT3 also does both well but the whole German collector car thing means they are worth so much that trying to insure the thing for track use gets rather tricky. (and its a lot of cash to have tied up in a car).
I currently run a BMW Z4 Coupe for road and an E36 M3 for track and while they are both great cars, the reality is neither of them get used very much and they take up a lot of room.
The rational thing to do would be to get one car that can be taken for fun drives when the mood takes but can also be used on a couple of track days a year.
Is there such a car for less than a million dollars?
A early M2 with AP’s and Ohlins maybe? Do non-GT3 spec porsches work on track? I have read horror stories about oil starvation. What about an early 997 or last gen cayman with Ohlins and a dry sump conversion?
The car could be older and cheaper (more than happy with cheaper) it just needs to be in good condition and not feel like I am driving a shed (unlike my E36 M3 which is a shed).
The only car I have ever been in which has managed this feat was a BMW E46 CSL. Everything else has been either too soft for the track or too compromised for the road.
Now I am sure a Porsche GT3 also does both well but the whole German collector car thing means they are worth so much that trying to insure the thing for track use gets rather tricky. (and its a lot of cash to have tied up in a car).
I currently run a BMW Z4 Coupe for road and an E36 M3 for track and while they are both great cars, the reality is neither of them get used very much and they take up a lot of room.
The rational thing to do would be to get one car that can be taken for fun drives when the mood takes but can also be used on a couple of track days a year.
Is there such a car for less than a million dollars?
A early M2 with AP’s and Ohlins maybe? Do non-GT3 spec porsches work on track? I have read horror stories about oil starvation. What about an early 997 or last gen cayman with Ohlins and a dry sump conversion?
The car could be older and cheaper (more than happy with cheaper) it just needs to be in good condition and not feel like I am driving a shed (unlike my E36 M3 which is a shed).
Pork gt4 has a fair stab, or Exige. On smaller budgets older elise Exige, esp sc'd. Vx220, mx5 esp a decent turbo.
Or you can make a decent compromise building yr self, e36 I've had full on trackers & compromised ones, it's not too hard to build a csl esk e36 or 46 for a fraction of csl dosh, my pal had a cracking 46 road & tracker, recaros hsds with the firmer rates, rs29s all round, not a full tracker pace but it was pretty cheap & went well. Shouldn't be too hard to do similar with a z4m, boxster s 986 can do the same.
Or you can make a decent compromise building yr self, e36 I've had full on trackers & compromised ones, it's not too hard to build a csl esk e36 or 46 for a fraction of csl dosh, my pal had a cracking 46 road & tracker, recaros hsds with the firmer rates, rs29s all round, not a full tracker pace but it was pretty cheap & went well. Shouldn't be too hard to do similar with a z4m, boxster s 986 can do the same.
Bearing in mind the budget of £40K then Porsche in that price bracket will be a bit marginal on track and costly to upgrade. M2 is great on track as long as it's had a brakes upgrade and a set of Cup2s, be my choice, ours was great.
Slightly left field choice and front wheel drive but our Megane RS275 CupS is brilliant on track. We have done quite a few track days in it over the last 2 years and it's been bullet proof. The handling is ace especially with the adjustable dampers and cup 2 tyres, it's very well balanced, quite tail happy and a blast to drive. No reliability issues at all just a few sets of tyres and pads. on the road it's fine if a bit bland.
Just my 2 pennies worth.
Slightly left field choice and front wheel drive but our Megane RS275 CupS is brilliant on track. We have done quite a few track days in it over the last 2 years and it's been bullet proof. The handling is ace especially with the adjustable dampers and cup 2 tyres, it's very well balanced, quite tail happy and a blast to drive. No reliability issues at all just a few sets of tyres and pads. on the road it's fine if a bit bland.
Just my 2 pennies worth.
Absolutely love my Megane 250 as a track weapon, incredibly capable and very rewarding. Taking it to Spa next month, can't wait.
But following your brief, I reckon a 987.2 Cayman S would be perfect. Porsche increased the oil pick up points from two to four in the Gen II to rectify the oil starvation issues and running costs seem to be much cheaper than M cars.
However I would agree that an M2/3/4 would be blisteringly quick and fit your brief very nicely, perhaps just not as rewarding as a Megane/Cayman. I drove an M4 on a Palmersport day and whilst it was mind blowing, I almost felt like the car was driving me. I definitely still want one though
But following your brief, I reckon a 987.2 Cayman S would be perfect. Porsche increased the oil pick up points from two to four in the Gen II to rectify the oil starvation issues and running costs seem to be much cheaper than M cars.
However I would agree that an M2/3/4 would be blisteringly quick and fit your brief very nicely, perhaps just not as rewarding as a Megane/Cayman. I drove an M4 on a Palmersport day and whilst it was mind blowing, I almost felt like the car was driving me. I definitely still want one though
Interesting thread. I have been trying to resolve that very equation for several years. The closest I got was the Megane but will probably have a second stab with a M135i/M140i later this year as M2 pricing have been flat for at least 6 months and I can"t really justify the £10k price difference even including upgrading the M s
te with a Quaife, B14 and Millway camber plates plus fluid and pads.
te with a Quaife, B14 and Millway camber plates plus fluid and pads.Megane Trophy R would probably be the best choice …
Cheapish to track will punch way above its weight and the reviews don't lie.
You'd be amazed at how playful these chassis are. Back end will slide nicely and controllable, most just disregard it straight away as its FWD... they really shouldn't.
Cheapish to track will punch way above its weight and the reviews don't lie.
You'd be amazed at how playful these chassis are. Back end will slide nicely and controllable, most just disregard it straight away as its FWD... they really shouldn't.
I get the feeling (though you didn't say) that you want a tin-top. But......a Caterham R400 runs rings round M3s and M4s on track, even the caged and modded ones, and it only gets overtaken by Porkers when they are very well driven or I'm at Silverstone - and it's great for a fun drive out, but only 8 months of the year - otherwise +1 for an Elise or what about a supercharged MX5?
Some good suggestions here, thanks. One to think about. Current thoughts:
iguana said:
My pal had a cracking 46 road & tracker, recaros hsds with the firmer rates, rs29s all round, not a full tracker pace but it was pretty cheap & went well.
That is basically the spec of my E36 M3 (although I also have AP’s as I was never convinced by the standard brakes with RS29’s). Maybe I already own the car I am looking for! bigmowley said:
Megane RS275 CupS
BenLowden said:
Megane 250
likesachange said:
Megane Trophy R
Secretly I know this is the best car of any of them, but it’s a FWD hatchback. Not sure I can bring myself to do it. I probably should test drive one. RichieG1 said:
I get the feeling (though you didn't say) that you want a tin-top. But......a Caterham R400 runs rings round M3s and M4s on track, even the caged and modded ones,
You would be right on the tin top. While Caterhams are no doubt a lot of fun on track, they don’t meet the road piece of the brief for me, plus for the last couple of years, I seem to have the ability to only choose track days when it’s raining. Pdelamare said:
BMW M4 with a spare set of wheels with slicks. Extremely effective.
I would love to hear people’s experience on this one. Every BMW I have ever driven has been too soft for satisfying track work. PGNSagaris said:
911 CSR
Cat amongst the pigeons. I had ignored these guys as a quick glance at their website suggested they want £45K + base car to convert a Cayman which makes no sense given the price of a GT4 but surprisingly having looked again their 911 stuff works out cheaper. £15K does all the important mechanics to a 997 911. (The full conversion looks a little toppy though as it puts it head to head with a GT3).k22wes said:
Elise 111r or exige s2
Not a soft top fan but an Exige is on the list.Another 275 cup-s driver here, awesome peice of kit...but I don’t think it is the answer with a £40k budget.
A few years back there was a guy running a modified cayman R at spa. Not too sure of the spec but I remember gt3 throttle bodies being mentioned. That was quick, my brother had his CSL on track, the cayman was quicker.
My brother now has a GT4 he tracks. Again, a step up from the CSL and shows the potential of Cayman.
A few years back there was a guy running a modified cayman R at spa. Not too sure of the spec but I remember gt3 throttle bodies being mentioned. That was quick, my brother had his CSL on track, the cayman was quicker.
My brother now has a GT4 he tracks. Again, a step up from the CSL and shows the potential of Cayman.
Another 275 cup-s driver here, awesome peice of kit...but I don’t think it is the answer with a £40k budget.
A few years back there was a guy running a modified cayman R at spa. Not too sure of the spec but I remember gt3 throttle bodies being mentioned. That was quick, my brother had his CSL on track, the cayman was quicker.
My brother now has a GT4 he tracks. Again, a step up from the CSL and shows the potential of Cayman.
A few years back there was a guy running a modified cayman R at spa. Not too sure of the spec but I remember gt3 throttle bodies being mentioned. That was quick, my brother had his CSL on track, the cayman was quicker.
My brother now has a GT4 he tracks. Again, a step up from the CSL and shows the potential of Cayman.
I’ve had a 275 Cup S. Fantastic cars. Far better on track that I expected. Trophy R even better
Or what about a Golf ClubSport S:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Or what about a Golf ClubSport S:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
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