Track days - going up or down?
Discussion
Is track day interest increasing or decreasing?
The fact that young people are apparently less interested in cars/driving and new car, connectivity is more important than steering feel would suggest a lessening.
However, ever faster cars and more restricted roads would suggest otherwise and the fact that there may now be a trend towards spending on experiences rather than acquisition?
When will we have electric cars at track days?
When will a stripped out Zoe take over from a Clio 182 as a track day staple?
I was just thinking of track days whilst peeling the potatoes.
Happy Christmas!
The fact that young people are apparently less interested in cars/driving and new car, connectivity is more important than steering feel would suggest a lessening.
However, ever faster cars and more restricted roads would suggest otherwise and the fact that there may now be a trend towards spending on experiences rather than acquisition?
When will we have electric cars at track days?
When will a stripped out Zoe take over from a Clio 182 as a track day staple?
I was just thinking of track days whilst peeling the potatoes.
Happy Christmas!
Still looks busy and well attended too me many are sold out and the ones that aren't are either early in the year or mid week day. However they do seem too be increasing in price and less days on weekends again doesn't help by the oversized club scene with bloated number of championship running with piteful numbers.
charltjr said:
Current EVs aren’t a good fit for track use so it will be a long time before they become common. Let’s see some good EV hot hatches or sports cars and then they might start to show up on track.
......... I would like to see what cars would stay with a Jaguar iPace, i’ m sure you will see some on track soon!ginettajoe said:
......... I would like to see what cars would stay with a Jaguar iPace, i’ m sure you will see some on track soon!
For 1 lap, or a 20 min session? I haven’t seen 1 EV maintain its pace for more than a lap without overheating. Tesla couldn’t even manage 1 lap of the Nordschleife. I was working at Oulton a few weeks ago and there was a discussion about whether they would continue allowing EVs on circuit as they have not got the facilities to deal with fires on them.
On the wider topic, five years ago it was a lot harder to fill events than it is now and I don't think there's any/many less days being run which says to me that demand is strong.
Much of this is economic though, we are currently in something of a boom (no, really), lots of people have big disposable incomes and can spend on leisure activities. The same has happened in racing, grids are stronger and the paddocks have a lot more expensive kit in them than five years ago.
On the wider topic, five years ago it was a lot harder to fill events than it is now and I don't think there's any/many less days being run which says to me that demand is strong.
Much of this is economic though, we are currently in something of a boom (no, really), lots of people have big disposable incomes and can spend on leisure activities. The same has happened in racing, grids are stronger and the paddocks have a lot more expensive kit in them than five years ago.
The iPace weighs well over two tons, I'm sure it would be entertaining in it's own way but it's just too heavy.
There's a reason you only very rarely see big, heavy cars on trackdays - tyres and brakes struggle to cope with sustained track use with that sort of mass to deal with and replacing them tends to be pretty expensive.
Would be interesting to see how much load the regenerative braking takes off the friction materials - but even if that does make a big difference, the tyres are still going to take an absolute kicking.
I'd like to see it, but it doesn't feel like something which is ever going to be a popular track day choice
ETA: Interesting comment about the fire aspect, I understood that what you need is lots and lots of water - I guess chemical foam/powder is more common at most tracks and easy availability of sufficient water is the issue? Might be going a touch off topic here.......
There's a reason you only very rarely see big, heavy cars on trackdays - tyres and brakes struggle to cope with sustained track use with that sort of mass to deal with and replacing them tends to be pretty expensive.
Would be interesting to see how much load the regenerative braking takes off the friction materials - but even if that does make a big difference, the tyres are still going to take an absolute kicking.
I'd like to see it, but it doesn't feel like something which is ever going to be a popular track day choice
ETA: Interesting comment about the fire aspect, I understood that what you need is lots and lots of water - I guess chemical foam/powder is more common at most tracks and easy availability of sufficient water is the issue? Might be going a touch off topic here.......
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th December 16:08
I can see Electric cars making an impact in short course stuff, hill climb, sprints, maybe drag racing? but for the clubman its more novelty factor, though as technology trickles down and knowledge increases on modifying and maintaining I'm sure we'll see it. Is it 2020 when rallycross goes electric?
charltjr said:
Would be interesting to see how much load the regenerative braking takes off the friction materials
close to nothing i'd imagine. track braking is too fast and short.Edited by charltjr on Thursday 27th December 16:08
the regen setting would have to be so aggressive that it would cause problems on any lift-off when cornering
meehaja said:
I can see Electric cars making an impact in short course stuff, hill climb, sprints, maybe drag racing? but for the clubman its more novelty factor, though as technology trickles down and knowledge increases on modifying and maintaining I'm sure we'll see it. Is it 2020 when rallycross goes electric?
A friend of mine has been drag racing for years, and has at times been seriously quick among the club scene (low 8s). He tells me that when someone turned up with a Tesla it beat all club comers without breaking sweat.
Of the days I've done this year I'd say attendance generally was higher than last and has been on up for few years, the pit/paddocks certainly seem to filled with more expensive track toys and more of them come on trailers rather than driven to the circuit...
However I have also noticed that TDO's I prefer seem to be running slightly fewer days each year, this might I suppose be because there is more demand on circuit time from the myriad of other users and race series.. I have noticed fewer experience day operators booking on to track days, so assume they must be booking private circuit time directly or the experience day market is on its arse?
I could see circuits disallowing them in future because of the potential costs and H&S risk associated with the admittedly highly unlikely fire situation. I assume that at a private event getting the local fire brigade out to monitor an EV for reignition wouldn't be free for the circuit or organiser.
However I have also noticed that TDO's I prefer seem to be running slightly fewer days each year, this might I suppose be because there is more demand on circuit time from the myriad of other users and race series.. I have noticed fewer experience day operators booking on to track days, so assume they must be booking private circuit time directly or the experience day market is on its arse?
charltjr said:
ETA: Interesting comment about the fire aspect, I understood that what you need is lots and lots of water - I guess chemical foam/powder is more common at most tracks and easy availability of sufficient water is the issue?[/footnote]
Water I thought doesn't extinguish the fire but reduce the temperature of neighbouring cells below the critical self combustion temperature reducing the fire spread and needs to maintained over an extended period until all the damaged cells have burnt out. I recall Telsa guide that in some situations it is better to let the EV battery burn out over a day or so, if only try and reduce the potential for reignition later. I could see circuits disallowing them in future because of the potential costs and H&S risk associated with the admittedly highly unlikely fire situation. I assume that at a private event getting the local fire brigade out to monitor an EV for reignition wouldn't be free for the circuit or organiser.
On the electric track car front I also think that it will be years away, only when there is nothing left. The manufacturers are obviously keen on electric racing but why would a privateer bother yet? The electric track car technology has a long way to trickle down to Joe Public to adopt.
When electric racing is more common then tracks will have to gear up for it but at the moment,as has been pointed out, who would want to deal with a messy, burning smashed up electric car?
Electric cars are also still too expensive to be a track slag at the moment, even if they could last a whole track day.
When electric racing is more common then tracks will have to gear up for it but at the moment,as has been pointed out, who would want to deal with a messy, burning smashed up electric car?
Electric cars are also still too expensive to be a track slag at the moment, even if they could last a whole track day.
QBee said:
A friend of mine has been drag racing for years, and has at times been seriously quick among the club scene (low 8s).
He tells me that when someone turned up with a Tesla it beat all club comers without breaking sweat.
Well for regular road cars they are very fast no doubt on the 1/4, far far faster than pretty much all normal road cars, takes supercars to be quicker, so testla stock circa high 10s, one of the yank mags stripped one & got 10.41 vs say a Mclaren 720s at 9.7He tells me that when someone turned up with a Tesla it beat all club comers without breaking sweat.
So mental for a road car but not of course challenging your pal who does 8s.
Think battery tech would need to improve a lot to be able to do a track day in one, most electric stuff now would struggle to do a flat out ring lap, so 3 on the bounce & a 20 min breather & out again like a regular car isn't really on the cards.
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