Formula Jedi?

[TobyTR]

My father is coming up to retirement and we are looking at going halves on a Formula Jedi for local track days & father-son time.

We've spotted a few reasonably-priced used examples, would anyone know if it's possible to buy one new and where from?

We're also looking at Formula Suzukis, too. Although the Jedi appeals more at this stage. What are your thoughts and other recommendations?

Thanks

[Jim Spencer]

Hi

Jedi's are manufactured by Jedi Racing cars - Google them and their site will pop up.

Formula Suzuki is a series run in New Zealand and Australia(?) I think, not seen one of those over here..

I'd suggest you'd be very lucky to find a track day you could run a Jedi on. very few allow single seaters what-so-ever, so you'll be looking at running it on test days (you'll need an MSA race licence for those) however it'll be very quick..
It'll also allow you into the racing scene, either sprints & hillclimbs or various classes of circuit racing.

It won't be particularly cheap to run if you did go down the 'test day with lots of running' route, it's a pukka racing car so it's built to a purpose and will require maintenance and consumables accordingly.

However did I mention it'll be very quick..


An alternative that will get you a significant chunk of the performance but will be allowed on most track days would be an older baby Radical, something like a Club Sport or a Pro-Sport. They're a similar ethos (Bike engine, chain drive, light, slicks etc) but with full bodywork (so track day friendly) and built with a bit more emphasis on longevity rather than out and out lightness.

[T0MMY]

Do you mean track days or do you mean test days? As the chap above said, you'll really struggle to find a trackday that would let a Jedi on and personally I think it would be much too fast. I think you'd be catching people so often you'd never get a clean lap in, apart from at the end of the day when the track is near empty and it would be quite frustrating.

You could look at an RGB car which would have full bodywork (similar to a Radical but cheaper and not as good!) and therefore no issue with getting on trackdays. Not as fast as a Jedi but still far faster than nearly everything else on a typical trackday, laptime wise. Even one of them would be quick enough to be frustrating on a busy trackday, assuming you and your pop were giving it the full beans of course!

[TobyTR]

Ah, thanks - it would be test days then. So we will have to sort MSA license etc

He really wants a Jedi... eek

[HustleRussell]

TobyTR said:

Ah, thanks - it would be test days then. So we will have to sort MSA license etc

He really wants a Jedi... eek

Dad and I are running a single seater this year after years of running sports cars

Running something with covered wheels opens up endless opportunities for cheap and plentiful track time... sometimes as little as £120 for a whole day open pitlane during the off season, which will give you 6 hours+ access to the circuit

If you run a single seater, aside from having to get a race license, safety gear etc, you are looking at paying more like £300 for 2 hours' track time at most circuits.

ETA: Caterham

[Jim Spencer]

TobyTR said:

Ah, thanks - it would be test days then. So we will have to sort MSA license etc

He really wants a Jedi... eek

Hi

Ok - what's he and you tracked before?

If a mild single seater (formula ford or similar) or at least a Caterham (or derivative) isn't on the list then I'd suggest going and having a bash in one would be money well spent (To give you an idea - a Jedi holds the outright lap record at Cadwell, with a 1:21, a radical is circa 1:30, good track day car 1:45ish)
Single seaters are Very 'different' compared to any road car you'll come across, some people just don't get on with them at all, some love them at first encounter, so well worth having a go before jumping in.

If you're looking for somewhere to try them out I'd recommend Anglesey Circuit (a bit of hike but well worth it) race school, their 'Le Mans' package is a very good introduction to single seaters or half a day at Palmersport (their 'formula' offering IIRC) although this is a bit more 'corporate' than 'potential competitor'.

[C70R]

Jim Spencer said:

TobyTR said:

Ah, thanks - it would be test days then. So we will have to sort MSA license etc

He really wants a Jedi... eek

Hi

Ok - what's he and you tracked before?

If a mild single seater (formula ford or similar) or at least a Caterham (or derivative) isn't on the list then I'd suggest going and having a bash in one would be money well spent (To give you an idea - a Jedi holds the outright lap record at Cadwell, with a 1:21, a radical is circa 1:30, good track day car 1:45ish)
Single seaters are Very 'different' compared to any road car you'll come across, some people just don't get on with them at all, some love them at first encounter, so well worth having a go before jumping in.

If you're looking for somewhere to try them out I'd recommend Anglesey Circuit (a bit of hike but well worth it) race school, their 'Le Mans' package is a very good introduction to single seaters or half a day at Palmersport (their 'formula' offering IIRC) although this is a bit more 'corporate' than 'potential competitor'.

This, completely. A full-fat single-seater would be something I'd suggest most to work their way up to, rather than jump straight in. Given that the OP hasn't held a race licence previously, and doesn't mention having any real experience with single-seaters, something like a Caterham or Atom (given a rough budget of £25k) would probably feel completely ballistic. Even spending £10k on a bike-engined kit-car would be a fantastic experience to share. And all of those choices give you the option to join other roadgoers on low-cost and frequent trackdays.

[T0MMY]

Yes, definitely something bike engined if it's track use only as it's a relatively cheap way to feel like you're driving something a fair bit more extreme than a normal sportscar. Depending on budget and in ascending order of cost (& performance), I'd be looking at either a bike engined 7 clone (e.g. Vortx, Indy, Striker), a full on RGB car (e.g. Spire GT3, AB Sabre), or a Radical. Even in the first of them you'll pretty much never be overtaken on a trackday and in the latter two I'd argue you're getting into frustration territory where you'll spend a lot of time blasting up behind people and waiting to be let by.

[TobyTR]

Thanks for the detailed replies all

We've both done a couple of Formula Ford experiences in the past and several trackdays in his 911 Carrera, so nothing extreme. The Formula Ford experiences were decent, but we were both left wanting a bit more power-to-weight; this is where the bike-engined Jedis and the like come in.

We will definitely head to Anglesey to try a Jedi before purchasing good advice. Pound-for-pound they look incredible value for money for the performance

[Jim Spencer]

Hi

Sorry just to clarify - Anglesey race school uses Formula Fords, but they do it very well.. it may still be worth doing depending on if the 'experiences' were just that or more akin to 'teaching somebody how to go about racing',
Plus
As you're going to need an MSA National B race licence (to do Test days) what you could do is simply do the ARDS test and combine it all into one (it'll be a really good day out too..)
.

Re a Jedi - there's a couple of different versions about, short and long wheelbase for a start, the former tend to be hillclimb/sprint use the latter more circuit orientated, obviously then there's a long list of engines been used, I'd suggest an ex circuit racing car of 1000cc would be where I'd be looking.

The questions I'd be asking are:-
Is the roll hoop to current ROPS requirements? (you never know you might want to race/hillclimb/sprint it)
Is it dry sumped / Acusumped ( or similar)?
Electric reverse fitted? (You have to have reverse for circuit racing)
Seat belts and extinguisher in date? (if you're not going to race it - then just 'in good condition' and 'charged')
Obviously what engine's in it? (and I'd suggest Suzuki K6-8, as that's a common fitment so lots of people can work on it)

Other than that, if you can find somebody local, who know's their way round a single seater, drag them along when you go and look.


Going from where you are straight to a Jedi (or similar) is a big jump, but having done it (albeit in steps) then what you're thinking about is certainly do-able just take your time, get the right car and find somebody who can help you through the purchase and first run or two - often this can be the bloke selling it with a bit of negotiation..

HTH

[48k]

TobyTR said:

My father is coming up to retirement and we are looking at going halves on a Formula Jedi for local track days & father-son time.

We've spotted a few reasonably-priced used examples, would anyone know if it's possible to buy one new and where from?

We're also looking at Formula Suzukis, too. Although the Jedi appeals more at this stage. What are your thoughts and other recommendations?

Thanks

What's your total budget for a year (car purchase, fuel, maintenance, events, travel+accomodation) etc ? Does one of you have a suitable trailer and tow vehicle that both are insured on to drive?

[TobyTR]

Jim Spencer said:

Hi

Sorry just to clarify - Anglesey race school uses Formula Fords, but they do it very well.. it may still be worth doing depending on if the 'experiences' were just that or more akin to 'teaching somebody how to go about racing',
Plus
As you're going to need an MSA National B race licence (to do Test days) what you could do is simply do the ARDS test and combine it all into one (it'll be a really good day out too..)
.

Re a Jedi - there's a couple of different versions about, short and long wheelbase for a start, the former tend to be hillclimb/sprint use the latter more circuit orientated, obviously then there's a long list of engines been used, I'd suggest an ex circuit racing car of 1000cc would be where I'd be looking.

The questions I'd be asking are:-
Is the roll hoop to current ROPS requirements? (you never know you might want to race/hillclimb/sprint it)
Is it dry sumped / Acusumped ( or similar)?
Electric reverse fitted? (You have to have reverse for circuit racing)
Seat belts and extinguisher in date? (if you're not going to race it - then just 'in good condition' and 'charged')
Obviously what engine's in it? (and I'd suggest Suzuki K6-8, as that's a common fitment so lots of people can work on it)

Other than that, if you can find somebody local, who know's their way round a single seater, drag them along when you go and look.


Going from where you are straight to a Jedi (or similar) is a big jump, but having done it (albeit in steps) then what you're thinking about is certainly do-able just take your time, get the right car and find somebody who can help you through the purchase and first run or two - often this can be the bloke selling it with a bit of negotiation..

HTH

Thanks, huge help!

[TobyTR]

48k said:

What's your total budget for a year (car purchase, fuel, maintenance, events, travel+accomodation) etc ? Does one of you have a suitable trailer and tow vehicle that both are insured on to drive?

Total budget between us about 55k

We have a suitable trailor and Papa TR has a Nissan Navara workhorse hack to tow it with at this stage we're not looking to compete in any series (although after a year that may change), just to run it at test sessions and work on it together

[foggy]

TobyTR said:

...and work on it together.

From my experience of bike engined cars, you’ll become really good at gearbox rebuilds, especially if used with some enthusiasm. Don’t let it put you off as sequential is awesome and adds to the experience, but be prepared.

[Zag_a_muffin]

These aren't the cars you're looking for

[T0MMY]

foggy said:

From my experience of bike engined cars, you’ll become really good at gearbox rebuilds, especially if used with some enthusiasm. Don’t let it put you off as sequential is awesome and adds to the experience, but be prepared.

I've got an R1 5PW engine in mine which seems to be as tough as old boots. I've been expecting it to break for years and the damn thing just keeps going Main problem I've found is cables...gear shifter, clutch, throttle...they've all broken at some point, some more than once. Maybe poor routing in my particular installation though. Obviously a very cheap and easy thing to fix but that's not much consolation if it happens in the first hour of a trackday and you don't have a spare with you!

[QBee]

A couple of years ago i went to Rockingham to watch the TVR Tuscan Challenge racing.

Formula Jedi were on the same bill, and were comfortably 20 seconds + a lap quicker than the TVRs with their 4.5 V8s in a 1 tonne car. That's about 20%-25% quicker, as the lap was well under 2 minutes for the TVRs.

My TVR Chimaera is used for track days and is slightly slower than the Tuscan race cars, yet is quicker than most on a track day.

So perhaps that puts the speed of the Jedi into perspective re track days - you really would be so much faster than everything else out there. As we all know, it's not the 120mph+ on the motorway itself that is dangerous, it's the fact that the other traffic is going so much slower.

[T0MMY]

QBee said:

A couple of years ago i went to Rockingham to watch the TVR Tuscan Challenge racing.

Formula Jedi were on the same bill, and were comfortably 20 seconds + a lap quicker than the TVRs with their 4.5 V8s in a 1 tonne car. That's about 20%-25% quicker, as the lap was well under 2 minutes for the TVRs.

My TVR Chimaera is used for track days and is slightly slower than the Tuscan race cars, yet is quicker than most on a track day.

So perhaps that puts the speed of the Jedi into perspective re track days - you really would be so much faster than everything else out there. As we all know, it's not the 120mph+ on the motorway itself that is dangerous, it's the fact that the other traffic is going so much slower.

I'm not sure what lap times the Tuscans do but I reckon the majority of the cars on a Rockingham trackday would be in the low 1.40s at best and many very much slower than that. I think a Jedi would do the more common short layout in about 1.16 judging on their time for the long layout...that's very, very fast. You'd be not only catching everyone on track (no matter how far round they were when you headed out), but you'd probably be catching most of them twice in, say, a 10 lap stint Not to say that's a problem necessarily if you're sensible about your overtakes but I imagine it would be frustrating if you were trying to see what lap times you could do. Moot point though as OP is talking test days and you'd never get on a normal trackday in a Jedi.

[foggy]

T0MMY said:

I've got an R1 5PW engine in mine which seems to be as tough as old boots. I've been expecting it to break for years and the damn thing just keeps going Main problem I've found is cables...gear shifter, clutch, throttle...they've all broken at some point, some more than once. Maybe poor routing in my particular installation though. Obviously a very cheap and easy thing to fix but that's not much consolation if it happens in the first hour of a trackday and you don't have a spare with you!

So we need your Yamaha donk combined with my Kawasaki hydraulic clutch and chunky throttle and shifter cables! Still, I've learnt a lot doing engine swaps and stripping ancillaries off the motor to crack open the crankcase for servicing the gearbox. Sometimes I wish I had a cassette gearbox to work with instead

[TobyTR]

Zag_a_muffin said:

These aren't the cars you're looking for

Why's that? Tell me more...