Lightest Car + Trailer combo
Discussion
Hey folks
So my MX5 is getting sold, there is simply too much fibreglass in it for me to have any faith in it as a track/weekend car. Looking for something new to piss about with.
Long story short, I want the option to be able to trailer my 'fun' car to and from track days, in an ideal situation I would do this with my current daily. Which is a Suzuki Jimny. This has a towing capacity of 1300kg. I know it is a fairly capable towing platform as I do, more often than I like to admit, throw 2 ton plant trailers on the back of it for short drives, it's slow but sure footed. However being as my nearest tracks (Knockhill & Crail) are 50-70miles away I'd prefer something that is at least mostly legal.
So I have been browsing trailers, ideal trailer appears to be a BJ Minno, dual axle with a tare weight of about 400kg (MAM of 1600kg). Can pick one up for about £2k. Although depending on the car I have access to several mini digger style trailers with load beds around 3m x 1.4m. However these come in heavier around 550kg tare, and have MAMs of 2-2.5ton (more than required). The friend I borrow off of has said he could sell me one of these for not much cash. But is obviously not that large for a car, I could extend it by removing the rear 'gate'/loading ramp and grabbing normal load ramps, allowing for a bit of rear overhang.
So looking at cars, my weight requirement puts me below MX5s, which come in with a 1050-1100kg tare. The only option I have been looking at is a classic mini, which I know people do run with various motors. However would be open to something more exotic, such as a kei car. Budget is around £4-5k so it does exclude me from Caterham-esque vehicles somewhat. I know Clio 1*2s can get real light when stripped out, but not sure if one would be light enough.
Open to advice, should I start shopping for (quickly appreciating) classic minis and Honda K20s, or are there other options out there that would suit, trailers too, BJ Minnos seem to be the only option, would be open to single axles if they offer great weight saving.
Cheers
CAE
(Sorry not sure if this should be in car buying or track days)
So my MX5 is getting sold, there is simply too much fibreglass in it for me to have any faith in it as a track/weekend car. Looking for something new to piss about with.
Long story short, I want the option to be able to trailer my 'fun' car to and from track days, in an ideal situation I would do this with my current daily. Which is a Suzuki Jimny. This has a towing capacity of 1300kg. I know it is a fairly capable towing platform as I do, more often than I like to admit, throw 2 ton plant trailers on the back of it for short drives, it's slow but sure footed. However being as my nearest tracks (Knockhill & Crail) are 50-70miles away I'd prefer something that is at least mostly legal.
So I have been browsing trailers, ideal trailer appears to be a BJ Minno, dual axle with a tare weight of about 400kg (MAM of 1600kg). Can pick one up for about £2k. Although depending on the car I have access to several mini digger style trailers with load beds around 3m x 1.4m. However these come in heavier around 550kg tare, and have MAMs of 2-2.5ton (more than required). The friend I borrow off of has said he could sell me one of these for not much cash. But is obviously not that large for a car, I could extend it by removing the rear 'gate'/loading ramp and grabbing normal load ramps, allowing for a bit of rear overhang.
So looking at cars, my weight requirement puts me below MX5s, which come in with a 1050-1100kg tare. The only option I have been looking at is a classic mini, which I know people do run with various motors. However would be open to something more exotic, such as a kei car. Budget is around £4-5k so it does exclude me from Caterham-esque vehicles somewhat. I know Clio 1*2s can get real light when stripped out, but not sure if one would be light enough.
Open to advice, should I start shopping for (quickly appreciating) classic minis and Honda K20s, or are there other options out there that would suit, trailers too, BJ Minnos seem to be the only option, would be open to single axles if they offer great weight saving.
Cheers
CAE
(Sorry not sure if this should be in car buying or track days)
I used to run a bike engined westfield (came it at under 500kg) on a brian james trailer that was specced for the purpose (took widebody cars, single axle, took a 1000kg load and weighed 300kg itself). Total weight around 800kg being towed. Was fantastic, would never know the trailer was there and I even towed it at extra-legal speeds with an ancient 1.1L escort with no issues.
I think the trailer (based in Edinburgh) is possibly for sale by its current owner and would be a shed-load less than £2k, PM me if interested and I'll enquire.
I think the trailer (based in Edinburgh) is possibly for sale by its current owner and would be a shed-load less than £2k, PM me if interested and I'll enquire.
Your opening gambit implied that an MX5 gave you too little protection from an accident because it was fibreglass. Actually, fibreglass is surprisingly strong, but as a man who tracks a TVR, I am well aware that I am very short of side impact protection, so am not about to start an argument on that front.
But any suggestion regarding a cheap lightweight track car starts off on the wrong foot - it is unlikely to be as safe as a tin top, say, a Clio 182 or BMW E36. I will of course get corrected, but I suspect that a man who runs a Suzuki Jimny as a tow car will not be spending very much on his track tool. So Westfields and Ginettas probably are not on the horizon. After all, you could buy a diesel estate car, tow bar already fitted, with a 1.8 tonne towing weight limit, for under £1500, and have a much wider choice of track tools. I myself tow my 1100kg TVR on a 300kg single axle tralier with a Saab Estate I bought for £1500. And use the Saab for commuting the rest of the time.
Where I am going with this is that I think you will have a far wider choice of track car and trailer if you do a quick tow car upgrade first. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know, but as VOSA impound cars and trailers that are illegal, you might be better starting from a more legal position
But any suggestion regarding a cheap lightweight track car starts off on the wrong foot - it is unlikely to be as safe as a tin top, say, a Clio 182 or BMW E36. I will of course get corrected, but I suspect that a man who runs a Suzuki Jimny as a tow car will not be spending very much on his track tool. So Westfields and Ginettas probably are not on the horizon. After all, you could buy a diesel estate car, tow bar already fitted, with a 1.8 tonne towing weight limit, for under £1500, and have a much wider choice of track tools. I myself tow my 1100kg TVR on a 300kg single axle tralier with a Saab Estate I bought for £1500. And use the Saab for commuting the rest of the time.
Where I am going with this is that I think you will have a far wider choice of track car and trailer if you do a quick tow car upgrade first. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know, but as VOSA impound cars and trailers that are illegal, you might be better starting from a more legal position
QBee said:
Your opening gambit implied that an MX5 gave you too little protection from an accident because it was fibreglass. Actually, fibreglass is surprisingly strong, but as a man who tracks a TVR, I am well aware that I am very short of side impact protection, so am not about to start an argument on that front.
But any suggestion regarding a cheap lightweight track car starts off on the wrong foot - it is unlikely to be as safe as a tin top, say, a Clio 182 or BMW E36. I will of course get corrected, but I suspect that a man who runs a Suzuki Jimny as a tow car will not be spending very much on his track tool. So Westfields and Ginettas probably are not on the horizon. After all, you could buy a diesel estate car, tow bar already fitted, with a 1.8 tonne towing weight limit, for under £1500, and have a much wider choice of track tools. I myself tow my 1100kg TVR on a 300kg single axle tralier with a Saab Estate I bought for £1500. And use the Saab for commuting the rest of the time.
Where I am going with this is that I think you will have a far wider choice of track car and trailer if you do a quick tow car upgrade first. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know, but as VOSA impound cars and trailers that are illegal, you might be better starting from a more legal position
Sorry, think you missunderstood a part of it. My issue with the MX5 isn't necessarily the fact it is partially constructed of glass fibre from a safety perspective, but more to do with the fact the underside at the rear is a patchwork of my dodgy welds, and where I couldn't weld bits of fibreglass filler. It's no longer passing a MOT as such I have little faith in it getting past any sort of scrutineering. But any suggestion regarding a cheap lightweight track car starts off on the wrong foot - it is unlikely to be as safe as a tin top, say, a Clio 182 or BMW E36. I will of course get corrected, but I suspect that a man who runs a Suzuki Jimny as a tow car will not be spending very much on his track tool. So Westfields and Ginettas probably are not on the horizon. After all, you could buy a diesel estate car, tow bar already fitted, with a 1.8 tonne towing weight limit, for under £1500, and have a much wider choice of track tools. I myself tow my 1100kg TVR on a 300kg single axle tralier with a Saab Estate I bought for £1500. And use the Saab for commuting the rest of the time.
Where I am going with this is that I think you will have a far wider choice of track car and trailer if you do a quick tow car upgrade first. Sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know, but as VOSA impound cars and trailers that are illegal, you might be better starting from a more legal position
I could swap out the Jimny for something more substantial, previously ran a L200. However the wee truck itself is otherwise absolutely perfect for my purposes, the L200 never actually fit on my driveway, the arse end hung out on to the pavement, No such problems with the Jimny. Although something like a SWB Shogun or Defender 90 would be suitable. A 3rd car would be viable, but I'd rather avoid it for two reasons, one, my missus would murder me, two, extended running costs of another shed would be less than ideal.
Budget for the car + trailer is around £4k, maybe pushing 5 if the car needed bare minimum work. So yeah, does push Ginettas and Caterfields out of my radar somewhat, which is why I was looking to classic minis or other such kei style cars.
Point as side, basically my question was, what fun track cars fall in below ~800kg and are there any other established lightweight trailer options other than the BJ Minno.
Thanks for your detailed response. More information makes things a lot clearer.
I am used to having a lot of space and tend to forget that others don't.
What's your budget for the 800 kg track car? I am thinking stripped out Clio 172 or similar at the moment.
You will have to get rid of all non-essential weight..
My single axle trailer is around 300kg (my car and the trailer together weigh about 1420kg, and I know the car is around 1100 kg).
It's bed is about 3.75 meters - the TVR hangs over the front of the bed by about a foot, and the car is 4.03 metres long.
It cost me £500 off Ebay, but I must have spent about another £400 beefing up the wheels and tyres mainly, as the tyres have to be capable of handling 800kg each, which means proper van tyres.
But something similar will work with your weight limits. Personally, I would buy a double axle trailer if you can manage it.
Apologies for the sideways photo.
I am used to having a lot of space and tend to forget that others don't.
What's your budget for the 800 kg track car? I am thinking stripped out Clio 172 or similar at the moment.
You will have to get rid of all non-essential weight..
My single axle trailer is around 300kg (my car and the trailer together weigh about 1420kg, and I know the car is around 1100 kg).
It's bed is about 3.75 meters - the TVR hangs over the front of the bed by about a foot, and the car is 4.03 metres long.
It cost me £500 off Ebay, but I must have spent about another £400 beefing up the wheels and tyres mainly, as the tyres have to be capable of handling 800kg each, which means proper van tyres.
But something similar will work with your weight limits. Personally, I would buy a double axle trailer if you can manage it.
Apologies for the sideways photo.
These guys...
http://www.allytrailer.co.uk
...do a very light trailer, light enough that even with a tonne of MX5 on it it would be below your limit. However, and this is a big however, it is only specced to carry a 600kg car so can't carry an MX5. You might be able to find something similar but with a slightly higher weight limit though (and brakes as it would be over 750kg). I was tempted to get one but was a bit nervous as it looks a little bit home made (anyone got one?).
As for car recommendations, I picked up my MNR Vortx in your £4000 budget but it was a non-runner and needed a LOT of work (they normally go for more like £10k!). With perseverance you might get a fairly cheap MK Indy or something, £6k seems the starting price but you could get lucky (as I did).
http://www.allytrailer.co.uk
...do a very light trailer, light enough that even with a tonne of MX5 on it it would be below your limit. However, and this is a big however, it is only specced to carry a 600kg car so can't carry an MX5. You might be able to find something similar but with a slightly higher weight limit though (and brakes as it would be over 750kg). I was tempted to get one but was a bit nervous as it looks a little bit home made (anyone got one?).
As for car recommendations, I picked up my MNR Vortx in your £4000 budget but it was a non-runner and needed a LOT of work (they normally go for more like £10k!). With perseverance you might get a fairly cheap MK Indy or something, £6k seems the starting price but you could get lucky (as I did).
Edited by T0MMY on Monday 3rd September 22:13
Right, I may be mistaken but that looks a lot like an unbraked axle and woefully inadequate for anything more than ~100kg worth of garden rubbish. Would not touch with barge pole, regardless of the tow car.
That wee mnr thing I might take a look at. Not shy to a bit of work as long as its not trying to weld bits of old Japanese cheese metal back together.
That wee mnr thing I might take a look at. Not shy to a bit of work as long as its not trying to weld bits of old Japanese cheese metal back together.
caelite said:
Right, I may be mistaken but that looks a lot like an unbraked axle and woefully inadequate for anything more than ~100kg worth of garden rubbish. Would not touch with barge pole, regardless of the tow car.
That wee mnr thing I might take a look at. Not shy to a bit of work as long as its not trying to weld bits of old Japanese cheese metal back together.
Well MNRs are generally a bit more pricey, I was phenomenally lucky to get one that cheap and it really was in a right old state. Probably more likely to find a cheap Indy or maybe something like a Sylva Striker; they're routinely at the £6k mark if you're not fussed about a lot of power so you might find a tatty one in your budget, especially if it's got an older engine like a Pinto or something. Robin Hoods can definitely be found for £4k but they're not exactly regarded as track day weapons (not that I've driven one though).That wee mnr thing I might take a look at. Not shy to a bit of work as long as its not trying to weld bits of old Japanese cheese metal back together.
Agree on that trailer really, great on paper as I'd be able to store it in my garage but not sure I'd trust it with my pride and joy sat on it at 60mph on a bumpy road.
I think our clio is 870kg and could be made lighter (has a full cage and oem glass all round). There are a few on cliosport sub 800.
I would also go the locost route and this could well be the answer:
http://www.750mc.co.uk/classifieds,locost-race-car...
I would also go the locost route and this could well be the answer:
http://www.750mc.co.uk/classifieds,locost-race-car...
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