Do I need track tyres for first track day?
Discussion
I want to improve my driving skill and have some fun in my car.
I have a 04 Corolla T-Sport with Dunlop Sport Blueresponse (average road tyres). This is also my daily driver so I need tyres that are good in the wet/cold Irish weather.
I don't want to invest in a spare set of wheels/tyres since I am a beginner to the track and don't know how many days I will attend.
I have a 04 Corolla T-Sport with Dunlop Sport Blueresponse (average road tyres). This is also my daily driver so I need tyres that are good in the wet/cold Irish weather.
I don't want to invest in a spare set of wheels/tyres since I am a beginner to the track and don't know how many days I will attend.
If it's a daily driver and you don't want spare wheels I guess you've got no option anyway really. What I would say though is that unless this will literally be your first and last trackday, it's a bit of a false economy to not have spare wheels and track tyres. No idea what your specific tyres might be like for track use but the fairly soft tyres I used to use on road cars like the old Eagle F1s and Toyo T1Rs which have relatively tall and narrow tread blocks would literally be destroyed from new in a single day on track as they just overheat and pretty much fall apart. Proper track tyres will last much, much longer and quickly pay for themselves (and the wheels they sit on), plus they'll let you enjoy the trackday more as they won't go off after 1 lap.
road tyres will overheat after a few laps and then the grip levels will fall off a cliff, but they are great fun. low grip levels means the car will slide around a bit more, and the limits will be easy approachable. track tyres can be a bit snappy when they let go, and you need to be going a lot faster before they do.
If its just your first trackday then stick wth standard and see how you get on - if you like it, then upgrade to some better tyres next time around.
Also a few tips for a first trackday - keep sessions short, 15 mins max, do a warm up and decent cool down lap, dont put the handbrake on in the paddock. Check the fluids throughout the day, and check brake pad material and tyre tread depth!
finally, the pressures in hot tyres will go through the roof - 30psi cold will turn into 40psi when hot, so get a pressure gauge to lower the pressures when theyre warm, and a pump to top them back up at the end of the day.
If its just your first trackday then stick wth standard and see how you get on - if you like it, then upgrade to some better tyres next time around.
Also a few tips for a first trackday - keep sessions short, 15 mins max, do a warm up and decent cool down lap, dont put the handbrake on in the paddock. Check the fluids throughout the day, and check brake pad material and tyre tread depth!
finally, the pressures in hot tyres will go through the roof - 30psi cold will turn into 40psi when hot, so get a pressure gauge to lower the pressures when theyre warm, and a pump to top them back up at the end of the day.
You certainly don`t need track tyres for your first trackday. Standard road ones will be absolutely fine.
Just bear in mind they get hot on track and the pressure will go up. After a session when the tyres are still hot, drop the pressures to what you usually run. Repeat after each session.
Bear in mind they will need pumping back up at the end of the day for your journey home once they cool down.
Just bear in mind they get hot on track and the pressure will go up. After a session when the tyres are still hot, drop the pressures to what you usually run. Repeat after each session.
Bear in mind they will need pumping back up at the end of the day for your journey home once they cool down.
Thanks for the help.
I have booked a half day on Monday at the Mondello International Loop. I will keep my sessions short since I have a two hour journey home.
I will stick with my road tyres for now. If I decide to go back for a serious track day I will get some better tyres.
What kind of tyre pump do you recommend for track day use? Do tracks have air compressors?
I have booked a half day on Monday at the Mondello International Loop. I will keep my sessions short since I have a two hour journey home.
I will stick with my road tyres for now. If I decide to go back for a serious track day I will get some better tyres.
What kind of tyre pump do you recommend for track day use? Do tracks have air compressors?
PWphotos said:
Thanks for the help.
I have booked a half day on Monday at the Mondello International Loop. I will keep my sessions short since I have a two hour journey home.
I will stick with my road tyres for now. If I decide to go back for a serious track day I will get some better tyres.
What kind of tyre pump do you recommend for track day use? Do tracks have air compressors?
No, tracks don't have compressors. You may be able to borrow someone else's, otherwise it is a good old foot pump or one of those fag-lighter pumps that take a life time and get very hot. I have booked a half day on Monday at the Mondello International Loop. I will keep my sessions short since I have a two hour journey home.
I will stick with my road tyres for now. If I decide to go back for a serious track day I will get some better tyres.
What kind of tyre pump do you recommend for track day use? Do tracks have air compressors?
If the track has pit garages you may well find someone with a mains compressor. Most inexpensive compressors run on mains electrickery, so need a power point. I take mine to tracks where I have a pit garage, and don't take it where I don't. You can buy a decent compressor for £50-80.
The best advice I can give you is to keep a close watch on your tyre condition throughout the session and stop if you are ruining your tyres. I did a track morning last year with a guy in the same car as me, and he was on Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres. He was driving flat out and I checked his tyres after a particularly enthusiastic session, and there was not a mark on them. They are good rain tyres, with a soft compound and soft sidewalls, so i would have expected problems, and they managed well. But I have also seen Toyo T1Rs, which claim to be a track capable tyre, completely trashed in one morning.
The other advice I must give you is to pay attention to the feel of your brake pedal. If you start getting confident and brake harder and late into corners, and your brake fluid is either low temperature or not fresh, you can start to boil your brake fluid. You will feel the pedal start going soft.....do NOT ignore it. It won't get better, it won't be a one off.....three or four corners later you will suddenly find you have no brakes at all, and will pile into the rear of the car in front.
This, or something like it, will be the result:
The other car didn't look too clever either.....
QBee said:
No, tracks don't have compressors. You may be able to borrow someone else's, otherwise it is a good old foot pump or one of those fag-lighter pumps that take a life time and get very hot.
If the track has pit garages you may well find someone with a mains compressor. Most inexpensive compressors run on mains electrickery, so need a power point. I take mine to tracks where I have a pit garage, and don't take it where I don't. You can buy a decent compressor for £50-80.
The best advice I can give you is to keep a close watch on your tyre condition throughout the session and stop if you are ruining your tyres. I did a track morning last year with a guy in the same car as me, and he was on Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres. He was driving flat out and I checked his tyres after a particularly enthusiastic session, and there was not a mark on them. They are good rain tyres, with a soft compound and soft sidewalls, so i would have expected problems, and they managed well. But I have also seen Toyo T1Rs, which claim to be a track capable tyre, completely trashed in one morning.
The other advice I must give you is to pay attention to the feel of your brake pedal. If you start getting confident and brake harder and late into corners, and your brake fluid is either low temperature or not fresh, you can start to boil your brake fluid. You will feel the pedal start going soft.....do NOT ignore it. It won't get better, it won't be a one off.....three or four corners later you will suddenly find you have no brakes at all, and will pile into the rear of the car in front.
This, or something like it, will be the result:
The other car didn't look too clever either.....
I will definitely watch my tyres so I can drive home.If the track has pit garages you may well find someone with a mains compressor. Most inexpensive compressors run on mains electrickery, so need a power point. I take mine to tracks where I have a pit garage, and don't take it where I don't. You can buy a decent compressor for £50-80.
The best advice I can give you is to keep a close watch on your tyre condition throughout the session and stop if you are ruining your tyres. I did a track morning last year with a guy in the same car as me, and he was on Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres. He was driving flat out and I checked his tyres after a particularly enthusiastic session, and there was not a mark on them. They are good rain tyres, with a soft compound and soft sidewalls, so i would have expected problems, and they managed well. But I have also seen Toyo T1Rs, which claim to be a track capable tyre, completely trashed in one morning.
The other advice I must give you is to pay attention to the feel of your brake pedal. If you start getting confident and brake harder and late into corners, and your brake fluid is either low temperature or not fresh, you can start to boil your brake fluid. You will feel the pedal start going soft.....do NOT ignore it. It won't get better, it won't be a one off.....three or four corners later you will suddenly find you have no brakes at all, and will pile into the rear of the car in front.
This, or something like it, will be the result:
The other car didn't look too clever either.....
I changed the brake fluid last month along with pads and discs. Its just standard Dot4 fluid but I don't think I'll need high temp stuff after doing some research.
You don't need specialist tyres, you just need some common sense and a calm attitude. Your fastest laps shouldn't be until mid-afternoon......and no one cares how fast you went so don't trash it :-). Check your mirrors regularly and smile as the faster / more experienced drivers go by...… in a Fiat 500 LOL :-)
As per the usual track day advice, start easy and build up, check fluids regularly, 15 mins per session max. Oh...and don't forget to empty everything out of the car, the glove box, the door pockets, the boot, under the boot etc :-)
Apart from that.....enjoy !
As per the usual track day advice, start easy and build up, check fluids regularly, 15 mins per session max. Oh...and don't forget to empty everything out of the car, the glove box, the door pockets, the boot, under the boot etc :-)
Apart from that.....enjoy !
All the above advice is spot on. I'd definitely recommend starting on road tyres- firstly to make sure you know track days will be your thing before making any investments, also because being relatively slow with low grip and learning how to be super smooth to hold your own against grippier cars makes you a better driver IMO.
Then, when the time comes- the switch to sticky stuff will feel like all your Christmas presents have come at once! Depending on the conditions you drive the car in, track-biased tyres can be roadable too so you don't necessarily need two sets of wheels. I've got Federal 595RS-Rs on my TVR and so far they've been pleasantly inconspicuous as a road tyre, in the dry or the wet. BUT- the car is a weekend toy and isn't likely to ever see proper torrential rain or truly s
tty roads- so use your discretion based on the conditions you drive the car in.
Most of all- enjoy! If you're anything like me you'll get hooked
Then, when the time comes- the switch to sticky stuff will feel like all your Christmas presents have come at once! Depending on the conditions you drive the car in, track-biased tyres can be roadable too so you don't necessarily need two sets of wheels. I've got Federal 595RS-Rs on my TVR and so far they've been pleasantly inconspicuous as a road tyre, in the dry or the wet. BUT- the car is a weekend toy and isn't likely to ever see proper torrential rain or truly s
tty roads- so use your discretion based on the conditions you drive the car in.Most of all- enjoy! If you're anything like me you'll get hooked
So I just finished my track day yesterday, I had a lot of fun.
I did about 5 10min sessions, the track was very short so I was able to get a lot of laps in.
On my second session my brakes overheated (due to bad driving). I was gunning it on the straights and panicing before entering corners. On the final corner my brakes went almost completely but I was going slow enough to make it around the corner. There was a strong smell of brakes and a little poo.
Also after inspecting my tyres I could see small chunks of rubber coming off, but I still had lots of tread. The guy beside me told me this is normal and to take the tyres down to 28psi (I had them at 34).
So I headed out again after the brakes cooled and had no issues the rest of the day. My tyres were squeeling around most corners which made me feel fast until I realised I couldn't keep up with the micras out on track.
I had no idea how fast I could enter corners so I slowed down while other cars pulled ahead. Do you have to spin out to learn the limits of the car? I never lost control of the car so I'm not sure if I was close to my limits or not.
I did about 5 10min sessions, the track was very short so I was able to get a lot of laps in.
On my second session my brakes overheated (due to bad driving). I was gunning it on the straights and panicing before entering corners. On the final corner my brakes went almost completely but I was going slow enough to make it around the corner. There was a strong smell of brakes and a little poo.
Also after inspecting my tyres I could see small chunks of rubber coming off, but I still had lots of tread. The guy beside me told me this is normal and to take the tyres down to 28psi (I had them at 34).
So I headed out again after the brakes cooled and had no issues the rest of the day. My tyres were squeeling around most corners which made me feel fast until I realised I couldn't keep up with the micras out on track.
I had no idea how fast I could enter corners so I slowed down while other cars pulled ahead. Do you have to spin out to learn the limits of the car? I never lost control of the car so I'm not sure if I was close to my limits or not.
Anyone can destabilise and spin a car on track through bad driving pretty easily. That doesn’t mean you’ve found the car’s limit. Push as far as you feel comfortable, get tuition, push some more, get tuition, etc.
In a road car running a standard road geometry setup and road tyres, assuming you’re driving smoothly, you’re far more likely to lose speed through having to manage understeer than end up spinning out. Road cars are almost universally set up to understeer at the limit.
Get some tyres with more grip on and change the geometry setup to make the car more neutral and then you’ll find the back end coming into play a lot more.
But learn about weight transfer and how it affects the car first - it’s soooooo important.
Good fun, isn’t it?
In a road car running a standard road geometry setup and road tyres, assuming you’re driving smoothly, you’re far more likely to lose speed through having to manage understeer than end up spinning out. Road cars are almost universally set up to understeer at the limit.
Get some tyres with more grip on and change the geometry setup to make the car more neutral and then you’ll find the back end coming into play a lot more.
But learn about weight transfer and how it affects the car first - it’s soooooo important.
Good fun, isn’t it?
I did my first trackday on road tyres, was running Michelin Pilot Sport 3's. I was at Mallory which isn't the most demanding of circuits, which is why I chose it for my first time on track.
Just take your time, I'd definitely recommend a couple of instruction stints, one in the morning and another later in the afternoon. You'll learn so much through those 20mins of instruction that you would in the entire day if you did it on your own.
Take your time, have fun and understand yours and the cars limitations.
Just take your time, I'd definitely recommend a couple of instruction stints, one in the morning and another later in the afternoon. You'll learn so much through those 20mins of instruction that you would in the entire day if you did it on your own.
Take your time, have fun and understand yours and the cars limitations.
Most important upgrade you can do is sort your brakes out first, Track-day pads and disc, and upgraded breaded brake line are a must, as well as High boiling point brake fluid. MOTUL RBF is good. When I did my first track day I only bothered with track day pads, after 3 lap the brake pedal went soft and I had to come into the pit and let the car cool down, the trackway turned into a waste of money and time if I'm honest.
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