Brands Hatxh GP noise issue
Discussion
Morning All,
Just wondered if anyone else had fell foul of the Brands Hatch GP marshals with noise?
I got kicked off yesterday in my 996 gt3, even after responding to a warning and short shifting at 6k everywhere.
Now here in lies my confusion, the car was apparantly the loudest of the day... its bone stock.
On the day there was also a Vantage GT3 car, two 991 gt3s, lots of race cars and then the usual deafening GTRs.... not 1 of them got removed.
After the warning i got through two sessions fine, on the third session after the warning i got kicked off... with no change to my driving style as well from the two clear short shifting runs. All very inconsistent and confusing.
Even more frustrating is I live about 2 miles from the track so im said resident they claim to be protecting.
Anyway my car was 99DB static which given its a 911 is okay... plenty of other cars higher so anyone car to explain to me how I ended up in a bone stock car being 'louder' than anything else?
Lets also bear in mind this car has passed Bedord noise tests also under MSV!
Just wondered if anyone else had fell foul of the Brands Hatch GP marshals with noise?
I got kicked off yesterday in my 996 gt3, even after responding to a warning and short shifting at 6k everywhere.
Now here in lies my confusion, the car was apparantly the loudest of the day... its bone stock.
On the day there was also a Vantage GT3 car, two 991 gt3s, lots of race cars and then the usual deafening GTRs.... not 1 of them got removed.
After the warning i got through two sessions fine, on the third session after the warning i got kicked off... with no change to my driving style as well from the two clear short shifting runs. All very inconsistent and confusing.
Even more frustrating is I live about 2 miles from the track so im said resident they claim to be protecting.
Anyway my car was 99DB static which given its a 911 is okay... plenty of other cars higher so anyone car to explain to me how I ended up in a bone stock car being 'louder' than anything else?
Lets also bear in mind this car has passed Bedord noise tests also under MSV!
There is always a degree of randomness to these.
A couple of weeks ago I got warned at Silverstone for driveby above 107db in a 997RS with a centre bypass (a la sharkwerks) even though the system has been to Silverstone 4-5 times previously. It was a misty, water vapour laden day.
I think it can also depend on conditions on the day, wind directions, others cars nearby, etc.
Plus there is also a chance that your exhaust is becoming louder. With ongoing wear I believe that is possible. Could also be pointing towards cats or back boxes needing changing at some point.
....or finally, maybe the MSV guys just didn't like fried egg headlights
A couple of weeks ago I got warned at Silverstone for driveby above 107db in a 997RS with a centre bypass (a la sharkwerks) even though the system has been to Silverstone 4-5 times previously. It was a misty, water vapour laden day.
I think it can also depend on conditions on the day, wind directions, others cars nearby, etc.
Plus there is also a chance that your exhaust is becoming louder. With ongoing wear I believe that is possible. Could also be pointing towards cats or back boxes needing changing at some point.
....or finally, maybe the MSV guys just didn't like fried egg headlights
This is a difficult one. But to be honest, your attitude publicly to the organisers beggars belief. We use these facilities knowing their rules and regulations with each individual circuit/operator. Brands Hatch has a noise meter with photographic evidence to back up their claim. What is the point in complaining, your car is obviously noisy, the the exhaust packing doesn't last forever, it gets blown out with time. Even a Porsche (believe it or not). Just get your exhaust repacked or a new more efficient system updated. Looking for people to agree with your gripe wont make your car any quieter.
I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
wellground said:
This is a difficult one. But to be honest, your attitude publicly to the organisers beggars belief. We use these facilities knowing their rules and regulations with each individual circuit/operator. Brands Hatch has a noise meter with photographic evidence to back up their claim. What is the point in complaining, your car is obviously noisy, the the exhaust packing doesn't last forever, it gets blown out with time. Even a Porsche (believe it or not). Just get your exhaust repacked or a new more efficient system updated. Looking for people to agree with your gripe wont make your car any quieter.
I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
/thread really. I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
wellground said:
This is a difficult one. But to be honest, your attitude publicly to the organisers beggars belief. We use these facilities knowing their rules and regulations with each individual circuit/operator. Brands Hatch has a noise meter with photographic evidence to back up their claim. What is the point in complaining, your car is obviously noisy, the the exhaust packing doesn't last forever, it gets blown out with time. Even a Porsche (believe it or not). Just get your exhaust repacked or a new more efficient system updated. Looking for people to agree with your gripe wont make your car any quieter.
I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
'Beggars belief' wow thats strong!I sympathise with being pulled off track because of noise, I was pulled off at Castle Combe in March for being over the drive-by limit, having earlier tested at 99db. I accepted my packing must have blown out, I didn't object. There is no point, they make the rules, we stick to them, my car failed their testing. I took my car to Infinity exhausts who made me two beautiful bespoke replacement cans, I took it back to Combe to get it retested. It was now 89db. No power loss at all.
Just get the car's exhaust sorted. I can't see how Brands Hatch would ever have a vendetta against a local customer driving a Porsche. Why would they.
My issue comes from inconsistency, ive had instruction before in a much louder car where the noise was let go. Then I when finally black flagged I was told if i had instruction I might not have had an issue.... i have no doubt at all that further instruction will improve my driving. Im certainly far from a track day god... just an enthusiastic amateur.
However beyond short shifting again under 4k im not sure what more and instructor could help me with.
If the 996 was leggy in anyway yes then fine in the exhaust but its only done 30kish and the exhaust is a replacement OEM example having covered less than that anyway.
And again when I asked for evidence of which i would have said fine nothing was produced.
Its just frustrating as its such a circumstance dependent approach... i.e. wind, air temp etc
What i was saying is, why complain about the officials. Your car was clearly louder than others, otherwise you wouldn't have been pulled off track.
You should not need to short shift, what fun is there in short shifting everywhere just to keep it quieter. Fix the exhaust issue, then drive the car how you enjoy it. If you are not careful you will alter your driving style to satisfy a noise meter. Why?
You should not need to short shift, what fun is there in short shifting everywhere just to keep it quieter. Fix the exhaust issue, then drive the car how you enjoy it. If you are not careful you will alter your driving style to satisfy a noise meter. Why?
Fwiw, i would investigate some additional silencing cans which point noise down towards the track. Must have some benefit and it allows you and MSV to prove you have done something to quieten it.
The GT3 Aston had a load of bits added to its exhaust and I could barely hear it (from inside a Caterham)
Very frustrating i'm sure, car looked lovely.
The GT3 Aston had a load of bits added to its exhaust and I could barely hear it (from inside a Caterham)
Very frustrating i'm sure, car looked lovely.
Mitch911 said:
Fwiw, i would investigate some additional silencing cans which point noise down towards the track. Must have some benefit and it allows you and MSV to prove you have done something to quieten it.
The GT3 Aston had a load of bits added to its exhaust and I could barely hear it (from inside a Caterham)
Very frustrating i'm sure, car looked lovely.
Yeah ive spoken to JZM about sorting out dome bolt on rear cans.The GT3 Aston had a load of bits added to its exhaust and I could barely hear it (from inside a Caterham)
Very frustrating i'm sure, car looked lovely.
Thanks again!
Great fun those Caterhams
Exhaust cause static test fails, intake cause drive-by fails. (Generally, in marginal cases, not 100%).
I'd take a closer look at your intake/airbox. Has this been modified in any way?
I'm probably the most black-flagged-for-noise person ever, I could write a book on my trials about getting a 600hp Caterham to be quiet enough for track day usage and later a v8 M3 with modified exhaust. The M3 would be marginal or over at Bedford and Brands (101.7db), but never bother the drive-by as the intake was standard.
I'd take a closer look at your intake/airbox. Has this been modified in any way?
I'm probably the most black-flagged-for-noise person ever, I could write a book on my trials about getting a 600hp Caterham to be quiet enough for track day usage and later a v8 M3 with modified exhaust. The M3 would be marginal or over at Bedford and Brands (101.7db), but never bother the drive-by as the intake was standard.
for whatever reason the noise officials at Brands are being dicks about noise, more than any other circuit i've been too, including the rest of the MSV network. They should get their equipment checked as i dont see why my cars are consistently 2-3db over elsewhere.
They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
rampageturke said:
wellground said:
What i was saying is, why complain about the officials. Your car was clearly louder than others, otherwise you wouldn't have been pulled off track.
because the officials can never be in the wrong, right?
MJ911 said:
for whatever reason the noise officials at Brands are being dicks about noise, more than any other circuit i've been too, including the rest of the MSV network. They should get their equipment checked as i dont see why my cars are consistently 2-3db over elsewhere.
They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
That's probably the best answer, just don't book Brands Hatch again. It will have a far greater affect than arguing.They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
MJ911 said:
for whatever reason the noise officials at Brands are being dicks about noise, more than any other circuit i've been too, including the rest of the MSV network. They should get their equipment checked as i dont see why my cars are consistently 2-3db over elsewhere.
They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
I think some of the problem at Brands is Jonathan Palmer himself. I have it on great authority, when he is resident on the site for business whilst track days take place, he is very active in encouraging the employees to stop excess noise. I think this probably is an issue from the top.They turned me away early last year with a cayman R (completely stock!) and i argued how it could possibly be too noisy when it had just done Bedford (MSV!) and it was a completely standard factory exhaust system.
Like the original poster, i am a local too and hear the cars from my garden, but havent bothered to book there once since then.
MJ911 said:
for whatever reason the noise officials at Brands are being dicks about noise, more than any other circuit i've been too, including the rest of the MSV network. They should get their equipment checked as i dont see why my cars are consistently 2-3db over elsewhere.
It's not the equipment, it's the topography of where the track is. For reasons too dull to go into in detail the sound level there is often higher than at a lot of other tracks. I did read up about it a year or two back but can't remember the details now, I found it with a bit of googling.So many factors come into play, and damp cool conditions are the most difficult in my experience.
About 3 years ago I watched a GT3 Porsche fail the static test at Bedford on a cold damp foggy morning, and interestingly they couldn’t even pass it with the noise meter by the driver’s door, because the induction noise was louder than the exhaust. I had the same result in my TVR, 103dB, despite adding extra silencers.
In the end they let us both through, but with dire warnings about failing the drive by. We both avoided going past the clearly visible noise meters at full chat and survived the day.
Some months later I changed my exhaust for an identical system (but not faulty) and lost around 6dB. So average 98 dB. Move on another two years and I added a turbo. I am now considering a 90dB day at Thruxton, as my car registered 91 and 90 dB at the last two MSV circuits.
So in conclusion, I sympathise, because GT days at Brands are a remortgage event for me, but as said above a faulty exhaust can make a huge difference as can induction noise on Porsches.
About 3 years ago I watched a GT3 Porsche fail the static test at Bedford on a cold damp foggy morning, and interestingly they couldn’t even pass it with the noise meter by the driver’s door, because the induction noise was louder than the exhaust. I had the same result in my TVR, 103dB, despite adding extra silencers.
In the end they let us both through, but with dire warnings about failing the drive by. We both avoided going past the clearly visible noise meters at full chat and survived the day.
Some months later I changed my exhaust for an identical system (but not faulty) and lost around 6dB. So average 98 dB. Move on another two years and I added a turbo. I am now considering a 90dB day at Thruxton, as my car registered 91 and 90 dB at the last two MSV circuits.
So in conclusion, I sympathise, because GT days at Brands are a remortgage event for me, but as said above a faulty exhaust can make a huge difference as can induction noise on Porsches.
In fairness, MSV [or any track owner] haven't decided to be difficult about noise it is a protocol thrust upon them by the Local Councils. Who, in turn, are responding to people who move next or near to noise generating facilities and then complain about it.
This isn't just restricted to motorsport activities / noise.
I've recently had to deal with a Planning Application for a commercial premises where the residential neighbours decided to object on the basis that commercial activities shouldn't be allowed near residential properties. Despite the commercial activities have been going on for over a century and the houses have only been there 10-years.
Back to trackdays though. I do wonder how some of the VTEC engined cars pass the drive-by tests given how loud their induction can be. The marshalls have given you advice - I've always found that this advice is given in such away that they actually say what you need to do to deal with the issue. They are just as keen for you to be on track as you are.
If they say it is induction noise then I suspect that a solution has already been found for your car.
This isn't just restricted to motorsport activities / noise.
I've recently had to deal with a Planning Application for a commercial premises where the residential neighbours decided to object on the basis that commercial activities shouldn't be allowed near residential properties. Despite the commercial activities have been going on for over a century and the houses have only been there 10-years.
Back to trackdays though. I do wonder how some of the VTEC engined cars pass the drive-by tests given how loud their induction can be. The marshalls have given you advice - I've always found that this advice is given in such away that they actually say what you need to do to deal with the issue. They are just as keen for you to be on track as you are.
If they say it is induction noise then I suspect that a solution has already been found for your car.
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff